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You may have missed the earlier post. In that situation, you enlist the help of others, perhaps in better oriented timezones, to gank, bump, and do other mean things till you can get your chunk of the ice. Should you find yourself working with this group of people often, CCP includes mechanics to enable you to work together towards a profitable goal.

Barring that, infiltrate the corps getting the ice, and take it from them via awox/corp thefting.

Barring THAT, get a suicide gank together and camp a gate to the tradehubs. nuke freighters holding ice products who are passing by.

All of the activities do require that you play with/against others in a massively multiplayer online game. Make no mistake, while you CAN play EVE solo, it is a very suboptimal way to play, and you will miss out on many, many things. Before you whip out "MY SUB ENTITLES ME TO..." your sub entitles you to log in, same as me.

I said it before, I'll say again. Ice miners are in the PERFECT position to exploit, and cartel ice products when the system changes come Odyssey. A little organization and *gasp* multiplayer, and ice miners could take and hold a bigger cartel than Tech ever was.

Realistically, will they do it...nope. More squabbles and "I wanna play by MYSELF!". I'll be looking forward to when another group organizes up, and takes ice away from all the squabbly "singleplayer" miners in EVE.

Cool, lets talk economics of current ice, I can do that. My default attitude in EVE is snark, so I promise I'll do my best to keep it cut down. Forgive me what parts slip through.

The prime problem with current ice and the idea you are speculating is a combination of infinite resource, ease of access to gathering of said resource, and what you mentioned in your post, the slow burn-off of the commodity.

Doubling, tripling, quintupling, you name it to the burn-off side won't do much to change the actual scarcity of ice products themselves. The products themselvs are infinite, in easy to access areas, and have a minimal barrier to entry to collect. in simple example, with pretend numbers: It takes ten ice units to run POS. One harvester gathers 2 units an hour. In 5 hours, you have your pos fuel. Tomorrow, it takes 20 units. Add another harvester, and your numbers are back to the way before. 30, you add 3 harvesters, and so on.... You cannot increase the scarcity, as the entry barrier to collect is so low, and the items themselves are infinite. In the end, ice miners under the current system are basically being paid for time, as the items themselves are not relevant anymore.

For a real life example of what you are describing, look at solar energy collection. While solar energy is infinite and can be collected everywhere, the barrier to entry (in setting up collectors, tech, such like that), remains kind of high. You'd pull it off en EVE by making it take 12-18 months just to sit in a barge...and that idea is just as silly as it sounds.


So, we turn to the supply side, and make anoms depletable. Now it's something you can fight over, compete with others, which adds value to the products. You can't just compensate by "adding more". It's now a strategic asset, as by CCPs goal.

Also, it encourages more multiplayer interaction. See my many above posts on how to cartel highsec ice. We want multiplayer interaction in EVE.


Will it **** people off, sure. Will some quit, I bet they will. Will they refuse to adapt and get swallowed up, you know that's the truth. The folks who can adapt to the circumstances stand a chance of making a boatload off ice...if they work together. It's so EVElike, it's making my shriveled little black heart pulse with venom!

Just a thought on the ice mining here. If changes in the fuel costs would be too much for POS operators, why not just split it in two, one type of fuel for poses and the other for caps. Independent prices, and more mining choices for the miners.

I wish this were true but it simply is not. I have tried, REALLY tried to sell the results of my ice mining in null sec and nobody is interested. Maybe it's just my neighborhood. I have an order of Liquid Ozone up right now below Jita prices and it simply won't move. I could put it on the Jita market and have it sold in minutes.

The simple fact is that I will continue to ship and sell to Jita as that is by far the best option. I really wish it wasn't.

So by not increasing the compression rates on ice you are just making me AFK compress twice as long as before. Not a big deal but a bit annoying.

you are still free to log in and spend one hour a week scribbling at dirt for rocks, you just are now required to scribble at the black dirt instead of the blue dirt

meanwhile people who scribble at the dirt, but more effectively, have more options

in other words, you feel entitled to success and are unhappy you may have to adapt to changing circumstances

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal

I will miss the limited security that scanned belts gave

it help play on the dynamic he who puts in the most effort will win.
Buy spending the time to scan down a site, i put in the effort to provide my self some protection to mine in a potentially hostile system.

This will be an issue in low sec where the speed of travel from one system to another is not hampered by bubbles.

On the others side. The enemy would wait on my laziness with scanning down the belt previously and warping to that.
With the new updated scanning options for launching 7 probes at once and the pre set probe arrangement option probing down these sites should be easier.

Can't make mining too risky for miners otherwise they will just mine deep in home territory.

There should be a mechanic where most of the Pvpers out on a roam will not visit the miner, unless they have a person willing to sacrafise the PEW PEW strength for a Prob Launcher.

For example I would recommend keeping the Scan required for Gravametric sites, but give the explore class frigates a 100%/auto find on finding Gravametric sites with their Over probes or even on ship scanner. This way a random PVP gang won't scare away the miners, and scouts will be on the look out for those Probe class of ships, as they provide a massive threat.

Or remove the on board scanner for non exploration ships. But I would much rather have grav sites remain as signatures that must be scanned down with probes.

If you must make them easier to find increase the signature size, so you do not need high scanning skills to find the better belts.

By removing the effort you have removed what little safety factor they had.

This is supposed to be a driver for conflict and team work. But if a null sec miner has to rely on PVP friends for protection, most will simply stop mining. Why? Because there is not a PVPer in this game that will enjoy sitting in a belt doing nothing just in case someone shows up to gank the miners. Not if they can be spending that time out roaming. It simply will not happen, at least not for anyone in a small corp/alliance.

You can not force PVPers to participate in carebear activities anymore than you can force carebears to participate in PVP.

FTFY

So your saying the purpose is to enable PvP (to some extent) and gankers to not have to make any effort to enjoy their style of game play?

Seems unlikely

(but would help to ease the PvP and gankers whine and tears posted elsewhere on lack of PvP in game without having to travel X jumps or make any effort for that style of game play.)

CCP has already stated its not to combat botters,