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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

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Star Dragonsbane
Haifa Shipworks and Logistics
#641 - 2013-05-01 03:21:04 UTC
This is nothing more than a setup to try to push miners into Null Sec or get rid of high sec miners by drying up demand for there labor in high sec. While that lasts anyway, doing away with high sec there Fozzie? I'll put it this way, I came to eve back in 2006 because I admired that vast world you guys had created. You even had a nice healthy balance of Good and Evil in the game i.e. High Sec - Good Null - Evil. Light and dark call it what you will it was balanced. As I see you guys progressing here, I cring at the thought you will suredly take high sec away. You do and I for one will quit Eve. The rest of you all probably will bash my post and knock yourself out but I know I speak for a lot of other capsuleers that don't bother with these forums that you will ultimately be changing Eve in a way that it no longer appeals to me. CCP major disappointment if this is your intentions. Over the years I have been a EON subscriber, clothing purchaser, PLEX purchaser and alt. holder. Add that revenue up and then multiply it by a modest guess of at least 5000 other members that are going to quit eve but for good if you go through with this type of change. My post is not to bash you but to put you on notice of the ramifications. You will lose the majority of the miners in this game, other than quad boxers and you might even lose a few of them. Good luck getting your crap built after that happens but hey it could happen I guess. And before you guys ask, yes my cotter does hurt. But mostly because I feel like CCP doesn't care about miners just PVP and in actuality that is fine if your prepared to face the ramifications. It will just be with one less subscriber :( and I don't say that happily or arrogantly but extremely sorrowful! StarCry
Doukyou
Deafening Silence Syndiate
#642 - 2013-05-01 04:43:35 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Doukyou wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
Doukyou wrote:
Thanks alot Fozzie you just shut down my pos.

!



No, its not a expression of my lack of desire for a challenge. I like challenges that make sense. This new way of setting up the ice fields is absolutely retard3d the amount of ice should NEVER be determined by player needs. It should be in an ort cloud, or if there is anomalies they should be comets. Ort clouds should be be non regenerative and be present in all systems in varying degrees based on security status. IE how long the system has been occupied and used in empire. The longer its been in use the less ice should be initially put in the cloud. The total high sec ice should be enough to take eve thru it's 20th anniversary.

Anomalies should be comets which are moving till the ice is gone. Comet mining anyone?



that is an incredibly dumb idea

"lets make the game have a finite amount of this consumed resource for absolutely no reason other than i said it should be that way for reasons that are beyond logical comprehension"



Notice I said in High Sec. Plus I left room for anomalies like comets and upon further thought I think we could add Ice rings a round some gas giants. Either way the point is that even that would be better than an absolute limit of 80% of current needs. Further 10 more years supply out of high sec is a long time off. It also makes perfect sense, that something in the game can have a limit to it. This also forces people to move around instead of warping to the same spot every day, mining the same chunk of ice which magically regenerated in the 30 minutes the server was down. Also I am pointing out that CCP really needs to ease the players in to new ways of doing things instead of announcing what will happen.

I'll make a prediction " If they go thru with this change, it will become the next spinning ship issue." Something they just foisted on the players saying "Oh isn't your capsuleer's buttocks so perfect?"

NO MotherF#$Ker we want our God D@mn Spinning ship back!

I think I am going to have to write and article on this subject on theMittany.com , cause this is probably the 3rd or maybe 4th time I have seen something like this since 2009 when I started playing. I am beginning to think its a CCP corporate culture issue. *Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal
I would say about 25% what his team does is great for the game, 85% of it is good for the game, But that last 15% usually falls in to the category of "why the hell did you think that was a good idea?"
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#643 - 2013-05-01 06:54:36 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I could be the most hard core ever, yet without an extensive playtime to cover 4 hours, I'd never get a decent belt.

you don't have a right to success

some things in this game are for the better players

(also a one hour miner will get some ice one out of four times)


A WoW player classic.

"We have loads of time in our no-life, we raid 14 hours a day to grind gear quicker thus we are better".

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#644 - 2013-05-01 07:00:27 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's not effort, it's T I M E R S.
There are approximately 80 systems that will have ice anomalies. No news on how many anomalies will spawn per system. Do you think every single one of them will be finished within 4 hours?


They systems that matter are Caldari. They are not 80, they feature *right now* 100+ mining ships. Come the patch, that number will possibly rise, in order to sgnatch the most ice ASAP and leave the belt empty.

How many *minutes* will such a belt last? Barely the time for a newly logged in guy to undock his Orca and 2-3 Macks and get there, just to find it strip bare.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#645 - 2013-05-01 07:03:20 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:

I could be the most hard core ever, yet without an extensive playtime to cover 4 hours, I'd never get a decent belt.

you don't have a right to success

some things in this game are for the better players

(also a one hour miner will get some ice one out of four times)


Pretty much this.

This solution is not perfect, Ice should only exist in lowsec and nullsec.

The Tears Must Flow
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#646 - 2013-05-01 07:04:43 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's not effort, it's T I M E R S.
There are approximately 80 systems that will have ice anomalies. No news on how many anomalies will spawn per system. Do you think every single one of them will be finished within 4 hours?


They systems that matter are Caldari. They are not 80, they feature *right now* 100+ mining ships. Come the patch, that number will possibly rise, in order to sgnatch the most ice ASAP and leave the belt empty.

How many *minutes* will such a belt last? Barely the time for a newly logged in guy to undock his Orca and 2-3 Macks and get there, just to find it strip bare.


Go to lowsec or nullsec. Risk vs Reward, Ice shouldn't eve exist in highsec.

The Tears Must Flow
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#647 - 2013-05-01 07:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Vaju Enki wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
It's not effort, it's T I M E R S.
There are approximately 80 systems that will have ice anomalies. No news on how many anomalies will spawn per system. Do you think every single one of them will be finished within 4 hours?


They systems that matter are Caldari. They are not 80, they feature *right now* 100+ mining ships. Come the patch, that number will possibly rise, in order to sgnatch the most ice ASAP and leave the belt empty.

How many *minutes* will such a belt last? Barely the time for a newly logged in guy to undock his Orca and 2-3 Macks and get there, just to find it strip bare.


Go to lowsec or nullsec. Risk vs Reward, Ice shouldn't eve exist in highsec.


Balls.

CCP are slowly bleeding hi sec through a years long "many small papercuts" campaign (aka "slowly boiling the frog), fully endorsed by individuals like you, who have NO AUTHORITY on what other players SHOULD (or, better suiting your mentality, MUST) do or not do.

I have mined in low and null sec even years ago and you know what? It requires a decent organization, many hours spent in game and so on.

For many of us with a life this is NOT an option any more.

I wish I could return being a basement dweller like your kind, but no, at a certain age RL begins to matter and then games take a second rank seat.




Edit: not saying bleeding or even removing hi sec is a bad thing per se.

But they should be honest and straightforward and tell it in the face. I know that goes against the politic of squeezing the boiling frog (aka hi sec subs) till it's too late for it to wisen up, but a bit of intellectual honesty would be welcome.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#648 - 2013-05-01 09:47:40 UTC
Seriously the V.V., you make the mistake that clever people often make which is to think that everyone else is stupid.

If I get 30 pies a day to sell and you get 30 pies a day to sell, then we both make about the same income: we each have half the pie market.

If your pie production triples to 90 pies, then even if the pie price falls by 50% to reflect increased supply, you're now getting 3/4 of the pie market, so you make 3 times as much as me from selling pies, and 50% more than you used to anyway.

If you then follow this up about how it's an unfair nerf when my pie allowance gets increased to 33 pies, you're not going to get much sympathy from anyone when they see that you're still getting 90 pies but you have become accustomed to getting 3x as much pie revenue and believe that you're entitled to it.

Certainly not from me, anyway.




This has been a pieconomics lesson from Malc, your CSM8 representative responsible for attacking bullshit wherever he sees it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#649 - 2013-05-01 10:02:20 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Seriously the V.V., you make the mistake that clever people often make which is to think that everyone else is stupid.

If I get 30 pies a day to sell and you get 30 pies a day to sell, then we both make about the same income: we each have half the pie market.

If your pie production triples to 90 pies, then even if the pie price falls by 50% to reflect increased supply, you're now getting 3/4 of the pie market, so you make 3 times as much as me from selling pies, and 50% more than you used to anyway.

If you then follow this up about how it's an unfair nerf when my pie allowance gets increased to 33 pies, you're not going to get much sympathy from anyone when they see that you're still getting 90 pies but you have become accustomed to getting 3x as much pie revenue and believe that you're entitled to it.

Certainly not from me, anyway.




This has been a pieconomics lesson from Malc, your CSM8 representative responsible for attacking bullshit wherever he sees it.

Actually the current setup is more that 90 pies are made by hi-sec and Null only makes 3 but because of the great demand of pies in Null you buy another 75.

Now with the new changes you can make more pies, an extra 30, with ingredients you can pick mostly from your own fields. So now you can make your own pies, you only need 45 more to meet your demand. So those that bake pies or make ingredients can either sell the pies or ingredients for half the price or they can change professions, for example to a scrap metal dealer. Once enough people stop baking pies the balance will once again be restored. As long as not to many bakers jump out of windows that is.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#650 - 2013-05-01 10:09:12 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Seriously the V.V., you make the mistake that clever people often make which is to think that everyone else is stupid.

If I get 30 pies a day to sell and you get 30 pies a day to sell, then we both make about the same income: we each have half the pie market.

If your pie production triples to 90 pies, then even if the pie price falls by 50% to reflect increased supply, you're now getting 3/4 of the pie market, so you make 3 times as much as me from selling pies, and 50% more than you used to anyway.

If you then follow this up about how it's an unfair nerf when my pie allowance gets increased to 33 pies, you're not going to get much sympathy from anyone when they see that you're still getting 90 pies but you have become accustomed to getting 3x as much pie revenue and believe that you're entitled to it.

Certainly not from me, anyway.




This has been a pieconomics lesson from Malc, your CSM8 representative responsible for attacking bullshit wherever he sees it.



You "just" forget how there's a personal cap to the amount of pies that can be taken. Even mulitplying pies by 10, I would still be able to eat as many as I can, which is even below the pre-multiplication day quantity.
So the net result is I still can grab just so many pies as before, while the amount of pies available rose considerably and when there's sovra-abundance of supply, price goes down.

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#651 - 2013-05-01 10:10:44 UTC
You're selling the pies, not eating them.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#652 - 2013-05-01 10:11:14 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Seriously the V.V., you make the mistake that clever people often make which is to think that everyone else is stupid.

If I get 30 pies a day to sell and you get 30 pies a day to sell, then we both make about the same income: we each have half the pie market.

If your pie production triples to 90 pies, then even if the pie price falls by 50% to reflect increased supply, you're now getting 3/4 of the pie market, so you make 3 times as much as me from selling pies, and 50% more than you used to anyway.

If you then follow this up about how it's an unfair nerf when my pie allowance gets increased to 33 pies, you're not going to get much sympathy from anyone when they see that you're still getting 90 pies but you have become accustomed to getting 3x as much pie revenue and believe that you're entitled to it.

Certainly not from me, anyway.




This has been a pieconomics lesson from Malc, your CSM8 representative responsible for attacking bullshit wherever he sees it.

Actually the current setup is more that 90 pies are made by hi-sec and Null only makes 3 but because of the great demand of pies in Null you buy another 75...


The ratio is actually going to about 90:9

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#653 - 2013-05-01 10:15:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The ratio is actually going to about 90:9

That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#654 - 2013-05-01 10:32:08 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The ratio is actually going to about 90:9

That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.


Again this bizarre assumption that "Null can't mine".

I have an exhumers 4 character on both my accounts.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#655 - 2013-05-01 10:36:43 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The ratio is actually going to about 90:9

That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.


Again this bizarre assumption that "Null can't mine".

I have an exhumers 4 character on both my accounts.

Well if you believe Null sec alliances have enough miners for all your needs and you do not need to attract more, then I stand corrected.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#656 - 2013-05-01 10:54:27 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.


Someone will mine those rocks even if hiseccers don't want to.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Frying Doom
#657 - 2013-05-01 10:56:36 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.


Someone will mine those rocks even if hiseccers don't want to.

Glad to hear it.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#658 - 2013-05-01 11:28:29 UTC
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.


Someone will mine those rocks even if hiseccers don't want to.


Yeah, I don't get where this "stop forcing us into Null!!!!" meme comes from

You're staying right the hell there in hi-sec. These are our rocks.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#659 - 2013-05-01 11:31:49 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
That is only if Null is unable to attract miners to Null, but after years of carebear abuse, I would not blame miners for not wanting to go to Null.


Someone will mine those rocks even if hiseccers don't want to.


Yeah, I don't get where this "stop forcing us into Null!!!!" meme comes from

You're staying right the hell there in hi-sec. These are our rocks.

Thank god for that, I wouldn't go to Null to mine. Just to kill miners, especially as the grav sites no longer will need probes to findLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Grippa Dets
Doomheim
#660 - 2013-05-01 13:03:35 UTC
Lots of miners are Lo/null sec alts. And a lot of those are semi-afk. That's who Fozzie is trying to move to null if anyone.