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Dev Blog: Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog

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Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#401 - 2013-04-28 21:58:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
If you see me mining in low-sec... I am bait.

no smiley, because, while it is funny, it is 100% truth.

That being said I did lose a covetor once to a guy who succeeded in getting away from the friendly cloakers near me.

Well played, sir. Well played.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#402 - 2013-04-28 22:11:46 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:

Someone please explain to me how less hauling is good for the game, long-term.


when minerals are being mined locally instead of battleships being imported there is a lot more content, because there are macks and hulks mining all the time instead of a jump freighter making a weekly stop.
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#403 - 2013-04-28 22:13:20 UTC
Wow - The Pos fuel minerials have exploded.

sigh!
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#404 - 2013-04-28 22:14:07 UTC
a titan can be imported in about 5-10 JF jumps (generally done on cynos on undocks, within about ten minutes, with low risk if properly done)

or it can be mined in like eighty million hulk-hours in null

which sounds like it creates a more vibrant game
OkaskiKali
Aussie Carebear OverLords
#405 - 2013-04-28 22:19:21 UTC
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:

Someone please explain to me how less hauling is good for the game, long-term.


when minerals are being mined locally instead of battleships being imported there is a lot more content, because there are macks and hulks mining all the time instead of a jump freighter making a weekly stop.


I guess someone has decided that null sec should be about creating eco systems. However I do think running POS'es is going to get extremely expensive for people that don't have the time to mine.

I can see plenty of POS'es coming down in the coming weeks and perhaps people leaving the game

we will see.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#406 - 2013-04-28 22:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
EvilweaselSA wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:

Someone please explain to me how less hauling is good for the game, long-term.


when minerals are being mined locally instead of battleships being imported there is a lot more content, because there are macks and hulks mining all the time instead of a jump freighter making a weekly stop.


Now I'm going to have interview each corp/alliance to make sure it is a COMBAT corp and not just out in null to gank helpless miners? :-)

I mean, I like padding my KB, but pouncing on hulks wouldn't even feel like combat, unless it somehow draws combat ships out.

Who was it that said the only proper play for prey is to flee?

Because I'll add ...and make a sandwich while you wait for the wolves to get bored.

Also, think of your own corp's experience with 23/7 camping of ratting systems. If ratters in GUNBOATS won't just put a point on and sally forth, what do you expect MINERS will do?

Especially all those imaginary new miners from high-sec. Big smile

I'm going to form a band and name it Einstürzen Neue Null Sicherheit Bergleute.

(and if it occassionally sounds like I'm arguing against some of the points I've made earlier, it is only because I am still wrapping my head around the possibilities. I'm more interested in good fights than I am in being right. So I want to be convinced that this brings good fights, rather than just making life simpler for null-sec and rendering the rest of the universe worthless).

Actually, the rest of the universe can be worthless, as long as sheeple in high-sec keep paying their subscriptions. Twisted
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#407 - 2013-04-28 22:43:54 UTC
000Hunter000 wrote:
Oh dear lord, here we go again!

Playing eve for SO long... Hi sec players WIL NOT MOVE to low/0.0 sec... Jeez, u would imagine ccp would get that into their thick skulls after almost 10 years... Roll


Literally every single person in nullsec was at some point a high sec player who moved out, since that is where our characters spawned when we created them.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#408 - 2013-04-28 23:30:38 UTC
Of all the changes, I like every single one except making ore sites into anoms. I simply cannot understand the reasoning behind this. Good mining sites should be scanned using probes, not the ship-board scanner. The last thing exploration needs is a nerf.

w-space will not like this one bit. At least with the previous system, one had the opportunity, however small, to notice probes on d-scan. Now they will have no notice at all. Mining in w-space will become much riskier.

grav sites gave miners in all regions a chance to escape should something alarm them. With these changes, you take away all that. Please roll back this one change. Everything else looks good.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#409 - 2013-04-28 23:31:51 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Literally every single person in nullsec was at some point a high sec player who moved out, since that is where our characters spawned when we created them.

Nah - that's like saying you are a stupid American, just because you were born in the US, despite that fact that you actually grew up in a more enlightened and educated country, such as Iceland. :)

Seriously though, you aren't a high-sec player because your toon was spawned in high-sec; rather, you are a high-sec player because your toon has never left high-sec.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#410 - 2013-04-28 23:36:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
Scatim Helicon wrote:
000Hunter000 wrote:
Oh dear lord, here we go again!

Playing eve for SO long... Hi sec players WIL NOT MOVE to low/0.0 sec... Jeez, u would imagine ccp would get that into their thick skulls after almost 10 years... Roll


Literally every single person in nullsec was at some point a high sec player who moved out, since that is where our characters spawned when we created them.


He was just being sloppy in his phraseology.

He probably means what I've said... you simply cannot flog high-sec players into null-sec. The people that go out there (like me) go out to see what all the fuss is about. They STAY because they like the adventure and teamwork. But no amount of isk carrot is going to make carebears into predators, or make loners into team players.

If you want more people to come out to null-sec, tell more stories about it. Or somehow, make teamwork less of a necessity (though that sounds like an impossibility).

The money that keeps these servers working is largely made up of people who are doing something else when they play. I'm not sure why they even pay $15 a month for a game that isn't fully involving them.When I do it (at around $12/month), I'm just waiting for a long subscription term to run out where I was fully involved in null-sec and then had RL opportunities that I had to seize instead.

There may be no limit to how worthless we can make their contribution to the game. Maybe they'll pay forever. I just worry they won't pay those subscriptions, if we don't need their high-sec toil anymore. It looks like the CSM and CCP are eager to find out though.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#411 - 2013-04-28 23:44:09 UTC
Liz Laser wrote:

He probably means what I've said... you simply cannot flog high-sec players into null-sec.


Well he's right about that, up until the point where he uses it as an excuse to justify not buffing nullsec as needed (or not nerfing highsec as needed).

It amuses me that highsec miners treat trit at 5+ and pyerite at 13+ and so on as the natural order of things rather than an aberration, though.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Frying Doom
#412 - 2013-04-28 23:46:45 UTC
It does seem a bit strange to announce that 50% of EvE players, play solo and then introduce more things that require multiple players.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#413 - 2013-04-28 23:51:48 UTC
I wonder where all these industrial (constantly failing because of horrible game mechanics) and ratting corporations found in the nullsec renter empires come from, according to some, they can't exist because carebears never leave highsec
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#414 - 2013-04-28 23:56:55 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
It does seem a bit strange to announce that 50% of EvE players, play solo and then introduce more things that require multiple players.


Imagine how many are doing something else like watching TV, and now we expect them to volunteer for duty that requires careful attention.

Null-sec barons can make it work though, because maybe they can get an FC to pay attention to local and the pipe intel and warp the fleet to a safe POS early. All they have to do is replace lost drones the way they replace ships lost in CTAs. :-)

At least until the 23/7 cloaker shows up. Getting your imaginary hoard of freshly imported from high-sec miners to undock might be a challenge, then.

Einstürzen Neue Null Sicherheit Bergleute.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#415 - 2013-04-28 23:57:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
It does seem a bit strange to announce that 50% of EvE players, play solo and then introduce more things that require multiple players.

Not really.

Many solo players opt to have multiple accounts and multi-box, rather than play with others. More than a few of those mining fleets are run by a single solo player.

And, more accounts per player means more money for CCP.
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#416 - 2013-04-29 00:02:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Laser
mynnna wrote:
Liz Laser wrote:

He probably means what I've said... you simply cannot flog high-sec players into null-sec.


Well he's right about that, up until the point where he uses it as an excuse to justify not buffing nullsec as needed (or not nerfing highsec as needed).

It amuses me that highsec miners treat trit at 5+ and pyerite at 13+ and so on as the natural order of things rather than an aberration, though.


Buffing null-sec resources is great if you're a null-sec industrialist (or like me a would-be fail industrialist who hasn't managed to make it a profitable endeavor in null-sec, yet). My only concern is how worthless we can make high-sec before the sheeple quit paying their subscriptions. Maybe they'll pay for our servers forever, while WE are the ones who create the lag nightmares and require all the dev work and hardware expenses to solve those lag nightmares.
Loney
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#417 - 2013-04-29 00:31:01 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Tippia wrote:
One question and one immediate observation:

How much ice will actually be in the new belts? On of the main problem with the current design is that they simply are too large — even at a decent depletion rate, they'd stick around forever.


Ice anom sizes are tuned so that high sec is capable of providing about 80% of the ice needs of New Eden right now, if fully mined.


Okay so right now there are 1 trillion blocks of ice in current belts... now many "estimated" blocks of ice will be in the new belts? 10,000, 50,000, 100,000 ?

+ Monthly Meetup - DC / VA / MD Area - Pass The Word +

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508844
Liz Laser
Blood Tribe Inc
#418 - 2013-04-29 00:48:17 UTC
I'm repeating this slice of a previous post and hoping people will express an interest in such a census to CCP, as well as an interest in them publishing the results. While I am skeptical of what I call flogging high-sec players into null-sec, the CSM, CCP and the player population needs to know if such measures succeed or not in their intent.

Liz Laser wrote:


It would be very easy for CCP to prove me wrong or right and be able to inform the CSM of the changes in player behavior (or lack thereof).....

THIS week, do a census where you note which players are in hi-sec. Measure 10 times including over the weekend. If on any of those censii they are in null or low-sec throw them out of that hi-sec count. Then 90 days after Odyssey do another 10 censii over a week and see how many of those same players get spotted in null. My prediction is it will be a very very very small number and will be due to other factors (like me regaining the leisure time for null-sec).

While I *hope* high-sec will endure and pay their subs, I'm *convinced* that you won't turn them into null-sec players by making high-sec less rewarding, less fun, or less afk-able.

Prove me wrong. You already have the flogging high-sec into null policies soon to be instituted, so just get them to make the measurements and be scientists about it rather than religious zealots about it. Measure your results and throw them in my face if you're right.

While I myself may sound like a zealot in how firmly convinced I am that you can't flog them into null-sec, just remember that *I* am the one asking for the measurements to be taken.
Horny Guy
CyberDyne R-D
Artificial Intellagence
#419 - 2013-04-29 00:52:54 UTC
Loney wrote:
COPY AND REPLY TO THIS IF YOU THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA SO THE DEVS WILL TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT IT

Overall I like all the changes suggested in the Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog... However I have a suggestion related to the ICE mining.

If CCP is reducing the ICE in HIGHSEC and giving more ORE incentive for players to move players to LOWSEC or NULLSEC then you need to do something about the COMPRESSION game mechanics.

Suggestions

1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.

If my numbers are not realistic (I think they are) please do your own calculations and adjust them as necessary.

2. Create a POS module for ICE/ORE COMPRESSION.
a. Make it big like a Rorqual and take up a lot of CPU/POWER resources on the POS.
or
b. Make it small like a refinery so you can put several of them on a POS.

This could be done instead of changing the Rorqual stats or it can be done as a added feature/option.

Thanks,
Loney

COPY AND REPLY TO THIS IF YOU THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA SO THE DEVS WILL TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT IT


+1
Master Account
Sky Net Industries
Artificial Intellagence
#420 - 2013-04-29 00:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Master Account
Horny Guy wrote:
Loney wrote:
COPY AND REPLY TO THIS IF YOU THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA SO THE DEVS WILL TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT IT

Overall I like all the changes suggested in the Resource Shakeup in Odyssey: Just don’t call it a Cataclysm + Companion blog... However I have a suggestion related to the ICE mining.

If CCP is reducing the ICE in HIGHSEC and giving more ORE incentive for players to move players to LOWSEC or NULLSEC then you need to do something about the COMPRESSION game mechanics.

Suggestions

1. Buff the RORQUAL stats for compression.
a. Increase the ICE/ORE HOLD by 100%.
b. Increase the COMPRESSION FACTORY SLOTS by 100%
c. Decrease the COMPRESSION TIME by 50%.

If my numbers are not realistic (I think they are) please do your own calculations and adjust them as necessary.

2. Create a POS module for ICE/ORE COMPRESSION.
a. Make it big like a Rorqual and take up a lot of CPU/POWER resources on the POS.
or
b. Make it small like a refinery so you can put several of them on a POS.

This could be done instead of changing the Rorqual stats or it can be done as a added feature/option.

Thanks,
Loney

COPY AND REPLY TO THIS IF YOU THINK ITS A GOOD IDEA SO THE DEVS WILL TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT IT


+1


I like this idea... Doing this would give much more incentive for moving to 0.0 and mining since its a pain in the @$$ to haul the ice/ore... even when if one chooses to refine it before hauling!