Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I must say, you guys do have a theatrical flair.

Look its 10pm and I'm trying to keep caught up on this, but I promise tomorrow we will go back through this Gal lineup and see if we can resolve some of the frustration.

I know I tried to lay out our intentions in the OP, but I want to lay it out again, just to make sure we're on the same page. I understand that many of you here aren't satisfied so we'll go back over it tomorrow and look at our options. In the mean time maybe this will help.

In the Megathron and the Hyperion, we had two ships that more or less shared some space. They were both armor focused blaster brawlers. The mega was armor focused because of its slot layout - but it had increased utility from one extra high slot and a larger drone bay, and also had an easier time applying damage because of the tracking bonus. Then we had the Hyperion which was bonused to look more like a heavy brawler - focused completely on damage and tank, because of having no utility high, less drones, and a tank focused bonus instead of tracking.

In my personal experience, I felt both ships came up short because they didn't play to their strengths enough. The mega seemed like it wanted to be more like a tempest, less concerned with tank, more focused on utility. A heavy tackler, a hit and run ship (MJD), a ship that could move fast and gank if supported. People tended to run light armor tanks (2 plates 2eanms 1dcu 2 mag stab) as the basic setup, but sometimes tried active setups which usually used more lows for tank. The hyp on the other hand always had almost all lows dedicated to tanking because of only having 6, and so its damage struggled to compete (unless it was some kind of shield fit).

The plan here was to fill in both ships' strength. The hyp would provide more power in pure tank and dps by having an extra low for mag stab or TE or resists, and it would sacrifice some utility. The mega would have more utility, again, playing to its strength - and the increased damage from turrets would make up for the lost low somewhat.

I can see many of you don't agree, and thats fine. I want you guys to love these ships so we're going to spend some time going over feedback and see what looks like a good direction to go.

I think if at all possible, we'd like to keep the armor rep bonus on the Hyperion. Its just too late in the ship line to toss out Gallente's signature tank bonus, despite the fact that many of you might want us to.

We are willing to consider many of the suggestions so far. Rolling another bonus into the rep bonus (like rep cap use) could be possible, changing the slot allocation, and adjusting fittings to give it more room are all on the table.

Thanks for the feedback, it won't be ignored.

What would happen if:
You swapped the rolls of the mega and hyperion?

I know the Art dept would never let you get away with a 7 high slot hyperion so...

Megathron
7/5/7
Becomes the tanky in your face brawler.

Hyperion
8/4/7
Gets tracking bonus, becomes the fleet ship or agile generic dps machine

Domi
6/6/7
Gets the right number of slots, trading dps for more versatility

How the hell is the Hyperion supposed to be an active tanker when you remove a mid slot? What logic was involved in this....

Hyperion = Blaster boat. Means that it needs to close distance fast, which requires a MWD, then placing web / scram on a target. Those are 3 required slots for 99% of galente ships. Now the fact that this ship is an active tanker, it requires cap boosters. 1 Cap booster is not going to cut it on a 8 turret, active tanking ship. What genius thought that was a good idea? Not to mention this ship is god awful at tracking so even when it does close the distance, it cant hit crap. In addition to that, for some reason the megathron can fit a full set of heavy dones, but the third tier class battleship is not able to, and costs quite a bit more.

Seems like CCP is trying to change things just to change things. Fail. Don't mess with the Gallente ships at all except the hyperion. Fix the tracking or something. Holy crap, there just gonna ruin Gallente bs.

Fastest growing thread in a while. Luckily I was at work otherwise my initial reaction would probably have been

Nooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!

For me the battleships are falling into three roles: -

Combat - fleet platform ship
Combat - alternate weapon/utility/e-war ship
Attack Battleship - Faster more appropriate for Solo Small gang

Mega would make a better fleet/combat battleship platform, the rate of fire bonus and the reduced drone bandwidth trade makes this a better fleet platform but still does not have more equivalent turrets than the Talos. Even with six lows and lower EHP it may still be a better fleet platform than the Hype. Personally I would up the EHP, slow it down and give it a 10% damage bonus and drop the drones back even further, keep the seven lows it makes for good buffer tank although I do not hate the 5 mids as the TE nerf makes room for TC more important.

Dominix probably just needed extra fittings and EHP, I do like the bonus change but may have saved that for the Navy version, as long as one version keeps the Hybrid damage bonus I do not mind too much but think keeping the damage bonus on the regular domi would have allowed for better balance between it and a Navy version that was able to fit Larger guns but with less bonus due to better fittings.
Sentry Drones are pretty good but not great for fleets unless you have big plans.

Why the Hype should be the Attack Battleship

Feels like attack battleships are for more mobile solo/small gang applications.
Active Armour is now faster than buffer tanking with the rig changes
Active Armour is only viable in Solo small gang situations
The EHP can be reduced as per the Attack Battleship stats but active tank can keep it brawling.

The fix

Armour tanking 1.5 improved things a great deal and the resist nerf on the Amarr ship starts to differentiate the two.

As you already state 5 mids are useful for attack battleships especially blaster platforms as it allows for these mids: -

[Hyperion, LAAR + Plate]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Large Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Internal Force Field Array I
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

100MN Microwarpdrive II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
Large Micro Jump Drive

Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Nanobot Accelerator I


Valkyrie II x5

The fit in my hanger, it doesn’t get out much but that is more due to the lack of large plexes and the cost and vulnerability of this ship it does have decent tank, buffer, DPS and uses all bonuses.

The five mids are also important for any fit variation for multiple reps where two cap boosters are required especially to counteract any kind of neuting pressure.

Hype needs some engagement flexibility so increase the drone bay to allow for further flights of drones. This becomes even more important if you keep the slot configuration as proposed as it is likely that tackle that will be sacrificed.

Glad you are listening and really hope some more updates are planned.

edit: not enough sleep yet, im a DA with this post.

multibox fleet of logi-dominixes, here i come!

This sounds like reasonable setup and also ditch the ROF bonus on the Mega, unless you plan to boost cap recharge on it.

Oh nooooo! What are you doing to my beloved Megathron. Go die in a hole all you shield fags.

I want to respond to a few of these points since they seem to be coming up a lot, though I'm not sure why.

First the tank - I showed you the armor tank that people are most likely to use, 2 plate, 2eanm, 1 dcu - this is the standard mega armor tank and its still completely viable. Now, you have the same tank, similar damage, but your ship goes faster and you have an extra mid. Seems like a fair trade.

And as far as the Talos. I would never expect this ship to compete with the Talos as a roaming kiter. That is not whats intended by "fast and agile". If you want to see some value from fast and agile, think about a situation where you have a new shiny armageddon tackled by your friend in a stiletto. The geddon is perma jammed by your friend in a blackbird. But! You have just jumped through the gate and are 35k away from the armageddon! Now, as you close in, the armageddon has 2 friends show up! An oneiros and a falcon. Now you have to make a run for the gate as fast as possible. This is just one example of where a BS's speed matters. If you are in a hyperion, you will struggle to get over there and apply damage in anywhere near the time-frame that this attack mega can. There's many other examples, but I just want to make the point that just because a ship can't kite as well as a Talos, that doesn't mean speed is not important.

As a final point for comparing BS vs Tier3 BC. Always consider the way they would perform vs each other. How does this new mega do in a 1v1 vs a Talos?

Well, the Mega would get the active tanking bonus, hyperion tracking bonus........(or the active tanking bonus could diaf because of neuts online)


I think the irony is that they've given the Geddon perfect bonuses (even if fittings and such won't allow more than a compromised fit) for the way everyone flew the Domi.... And yet they insist on shoving active tanking bonuses down our throats when resists are still better (even at 4%) - It' madding.