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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#601 - 2013-05-07 00:29:37 UTC
Ranamar wrote:
The new Raven is actually surprisingly zippy for a battleship, especially since it doesn't tend to be plated. You can get over 1000m/s with just a MWD and good navigation skills, although, admittedly, it only runs for a minute or two.

I do think that the Raven is going to be better with torpedoes because of the range/speed boost to them, while the Typhoon does amazing things with cruise missiles (140km with good skills and faction ammo ought to be enough, right?), though. Unfortunately, you'll probably need a web/paint buddy with the Raven because of the massive explosion radius of torpedoes. Will be good against battleships, I expect, in any event.


You do realise the new Cruise Missiles using fur y on the Raven fully apply all damage to battleships without a TP and do more damage than Navy Torpedos because of it. Mate, Raven is the Cruise Boat, th Typhoon is the Torpedo boat.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#602 - 2013-05-07 00:34:25 UTC
Gimme more Cynos wrote:
still don't get why the raven needs more PG though.. and 7 launchers on the normal raven.. idk, a bit much maybe?


The Powergrid buff is for relatively viable Torpedo fits, and as for your question with the 7 launchers, just make the Navy Rework have 8.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#603 - 2013-05-07 04:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Ranamar wrote:
The new Raven is actually surprisingly zippy for a battleship, especially since it doesn't tend to be plated. You can get over 1000m/s with just a MWD and good navigation skills, although, admittedly, it only runs for a minute or two.

I do think that the Raven is going to be better with torpedoes because of the range/speed boost to them, while the Typhoon does amazing things with cruise missiles (140km with good skills and faction ammo ought to be enough, right?), though. Unfortunately, you'll probably need a web/paint buddy with the Raven because of the massive explosion radius of torpedoes. Will be good against battleships, I expect, in any event.


You do realise the new Cruise Missiles using fur y on the Raven fully apply all damage to battleships without a TP and do more damage than Navy Torpedos because of it. Mate, Raven is the Cruise Boat, th Typhoon is the Torpedo boat.



Yes but thats with the enemy ship standing still, while moving .... no.. the smaller sig battleships will not be hit for full damage even while standing still. They require a TP and to be standing still and if they are moving, damage is reduced regardless.
The raven will require support to do its damage, and sniping with cruise is still a no go, and trying to snipe at longer ranges, a TP will not work but only so far.

The Phoon with cruise will be able to hit all battleships with no TP, and even slower movement without TP, while faster movement will require a TP. It will hit better with torps any given day with or without a TP.

Regardless, the phoon will always apply more damage.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#604 - 2013-05-07 04:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Raven:

The (cavalry)Raven is becoming the Caldari attack battleship. Its bonuses were a natural fit already, and although its giving up some base hitpoints, the substantial increase to speed and added mid should open up plenty of new opportunities for Caldari missile pilots without hurting anyone who was already happy using it.

Its also gaining power grid and CPU output so that torp focused fits and fits that want to use propulsion mods are more easily accessible. Keep in mind that we will be taking a more detailed look at battleship sized missile systems in the near future.

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 6 launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 750(+50) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7000(-500) / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 113(+19) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 85 / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 420(-50)

Good Job CCP Rise its a piece of Shyte!!!

Raven

Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity (Possibly change its to a 7.5% Shield Boost Amount per level or just leave bonus as is)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 7(+1) launchers
Fittings: 11000 PWG(+1500), 800(+100) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7500 / 5800(-841) / 6400(-241)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 5500(+187.5) / 1160s / 4.74
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 120(+26) / .12(-.008) / 99300000 / 16.52s (-1.1s)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-25) / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 80(+5)km / 100(+15) / 7
Sensor strength: 22 Gravimetric
Signature radius: 400(-70)

There Raven relatively fix and good for both PvE and PvP, more shields, more launchers, more speed, more target range, more scan resolution, less signature radius.



Your fix would make me so happy in my pants.

Like for real......Twisted
Zetak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#605 - 2013-05-07 05:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Zetak
Deerin wrote:
Zetak wrote:
The 101 of caldari ship fitting or any ship fitting is that you don't use any cap booser for pve. not to mention that where would i put those 800 cap charges? In my roughly 600 m3 cargo bay? that is fairly unrealistic


The 102 of PvE fitting dictates that if you kill enemies fast enough, cap boosters won't even be necessary :P I've used it on mael for a long time without any problems. Have 15 cap boosters in cargo bay and fill remaining with missiles. With 3 reloads + 1 full booster you have more than enough time to clear rooms.

With the new MJD I think it can be much easier. I'm sure it can be implemented to that fit.


I don't want to go into a mouthing contest, if you can work things out for yourself i accept, I humbly appologize If I caused any inconvinience for you, or was being offensive in any way. I just want to resume the regular discussion of the ships.

My reason of not using cap booster, and instead of that having a cap stable tank because being in caldari space, doing caldari missions, means a hell of a lot npc ECM and warp jam, and there is a high chance of catching an unlucky sequence of jam, and i cannot afford to put myself out for such hazards, also I cannot effectively fit my ship that way, because My navy raven does not have shield boost bonus so pulse tank is out of the question for a 500 mill priced ship not to mention the other 600 mill module+rig i have fitted on it. So you can understand my hesitation when seeing your posted pve fit. Though as others stated it is probably a pvp fit, so my bad.

Anyway if I was offensive I appologize.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#606 - 2013-05-07 05:39:55 UTC
Here is what kinda stats the Raven puts out with my suggested changes with the shield boost bonus change aswell.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s594/grunnax/Raven_zpsb9c01394.png

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Zetak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#607 - 2013-05-07 05:43:13 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Here is what kinda stats the Raven puts out with my suggested changes with the shield boost bonus change aswell.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s594/grunnax/Raven_zpsb9c01394.png


That fit is beautiful and perfect.Smile this is how the raven should look like +1
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#608 - 2013-05-07 05:59:33 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Here is what kinda stats the Raven puts out with my suggested changes with the shield boost bonus change aswell.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s594/grunnax/Raven_zpsb9c01394.png


Damn, it wont give me a readable size pic.. Too small.
Zetak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#609 - 2013-05-07 06:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Zetak
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Here is what kinda stats the Raven puts out with my suggested changes with the shield boost bonus change aswell.

http://i1307.photobucket.com/albums/s594/grunnax/Raven_zpsb9c01394.png


I would add that 7 missile slot might be a lot for a t1 ship. Although I saw what they are doing with the other factions ships, and maybe the seven slot is not too much at all: 7 turret+25%rof on mega+ the serius amount of drones....yeah not far fetched at all
Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#610 - 2013-05-07 06:34:52 UTC
Zetak wrote:
Deerin wrote:
Zetak wrote:
The 101 of caldari ship fitting or any ship fitting is that you don't use any cap booser for pve. not to mention that where would i put those 800 cap charges? In my roughly 600 m3 cargo bay? that is fairly unrealistic


The 102 of PvE fitting dictates that if you kill enemies fast enough, cap boosters won't even be necessary :P I've used it on mael for a long time without any problems. Have 15 cap boosters in cargo bay and fill remaining with missiles. With 3 reloads + 1 full booster you have more than enough time to clear rooms.

With the new MJD I think it can be much easier. I'm sure it can be implemented to that fit.


I don't want to go into a mouthing contest, if you can work things out for yourself i accept, I humbly appologize If I caused any inconvinience for you, or was being offensive in any way. I just want to resume the regular discussion of the ships.

My reason of not using cap booster, and instead of that having a cap stable tank because being in caldari space, doing caldari missions, means a hell of a lot npc ECM and warp jam, and there is a high chance of catching an unlucky sequence of jam, and i cannot afford to put myself out for such hazards, also I cannot effectively fit my ship that way, because My navy raven does not have shield boost bonus so pulse tank is out of the question for a 500 mill priced ship not to mention the other 600 mill module+rig i have fitted on it. So you can understand my hesitation when seeing your posted pve fit. Though as others stated it is probably a pvp fit, so my bad.

Anyway if I was offensive I appologize.


Fair point with ECM. Anyway it was just a suggestion. I also think raven and phoon needs to be different. -1 launcher + big drone bay on phoon is a popular proposal in minmatar boards.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#611 - 2013-05-07 07:22:39 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:

You do realise the new Cruise Missiles using fur y on the Raven fully apply all damage to battleships without a TP and do more damage than Navy Torpedos because of it. Mate, Raven is the Cruise Boat, the Typhoon is the Torpedo boat.
Only slow shield-tanked ones (like other Raven) when fully rig for this (and then you'll continue to be amazed at how bad the Raven's tank is). Even with rigs you won't hit a Typhoon for full damage with Furies (nor with faction ammo if the 'Phoon has an afterburner running - even precision won't do that).

The Typhoon, OTOH, only needs two rig slots to do that, and has superior performance on faster ships. It doesn't have quite the reach of a Raven, and won't have quite as much DPS on very large objects that aren't moving (i.e. seiged/fully-webbed capitals), but otherwise it's just as good. Oh, and is harder to hit and has a better tank.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#612 - 2013-05-07 07:39:38 UTC
Zetak wrote:

I would add that 7 missile slot might be a lot for a t1 ship. Although I saw what they are doing with the other factions ships, and maybe the seven slot is not too much at all: 7 turret+25%rof on mega+ the serius amount of drones....yeah not far fetched at all

As there are no tiers any more, we can look at all the tech 1 battleships. We then see several ships with eight launchers/turrets - though frankly they're suffering in comparison to the 6-7 gun ships, because these tend to get bigger DPS bonuses and thus do similar DPS with more low-mid slots and easier fitting. I think CCP has made a mistake in using bigger than normal ship bonuses to balance a 6 turret ship with an 8 (e.g. the Hyperion), because it raises the question of why all ships don't have these new improved weapon systems that do more damage per turret, and it makes balancing harder, because less highs means more mids and/or lows these days, and that means more moving parts to balance.
Zetak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#613 - 2013-05-07 08:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zetak
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Zetak wrote:

I would add that 7 missile slot might be a lot for a t1 ship. Although I saw what they are doing with the other factions ships, and maybe the seven slot is not too much at all: 7 turret+25%rof on mega+ the serius amount of drones....yeah not far fetched at all

As there are no tiers any more, we can look at all the tech 1 battleships. We then see several ships with eight launchers/turrets - though frankly they're suffering in comparison to the 6-7 gun ships, because these tend to get bigger DPS bonuses and thus do similar DPS with more low-mid slots and easier fitting. I think CCP has made a mistake in using bigger than normal ship bonuses to balance a 6 turret ship with an 8 (e.g. the Hyperion), because it raises the question of why all ships don't have these new improved weapon systems that do more damage per turret, and it makes balancing harder, because less highs means more mids and/or lows these days, and that means more moving parts to balance.



I understand that, but as i see it ccp wants players to be able to use more modules. lowering the max weapons does that in some way, and with more med/ low slots we might do exactly that. As you well know even one extra module can be a game changer. Meaning less weapon lets us fit more maybe because you will have the extra slot, maybe because you will have now the grid or cpu. Either way I believe it is a great thing all in all. with less, you can do more.

You just have to think about the marauders or the nightmare. they can fit in a style none ship can and that means plenty ewar wep, not compromising tank or cap.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#614 - 2013-05-07 08:06:55 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Yes but thats with the enemy ship standing still, while moving .... no.. the smaller sig battleships will not be hit for full damage even while standing still.


No, CN cruise will have an explosion radius of 247.5 m. No BS has a sig even close to that.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#615 - 2013-05-07 08:43:38 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 7(+1) launchers.

Seriously, 7 launchers and 7 mids slots, plus the upcoming 20-30%buff to cruise missile damage? That is +1000 DPS at range. Now I am not saying I am against it, as when they rebalance my Navy Raven it will also get a boost, but I don't see them giving the Raven that extra launcher.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#616 - 2013-05-07 08:46:30 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 7(+1) launchers.

Seriously, 7 launchers and 7 mids slots, plus the upcoming 20-30%buff to cruise missile damage? That is +1000 DPS at range. Now I am not saying I am against it, as when they rebalance my Navy Raven it will also get a boost, but I don't see them giving the Raven that extra launcher.


I Dont GAF If its 1000 DPS with cruise, with the tank it has it deserves it, otherwise buff the Tank exponentially.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Zetak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#617 - 2013-05-07 08:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zetak
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 7(+1) launchers.

Seriously, 7 launchers and 7 mids slots, plus the upcoming 20-30%buff to cruise missile damage? That is +1000 DPS at range. Now I am not saying I am against it, as when they rebalance my Navy Raven it will also get a boost, but I don't see them giving the Raven that extra launcher.


Tell that to the 1300+ dps vargur or a tachyon paladin or a blaster mega or a 10k+ alpha strike tornado etc. Pirate
now picture them in their full majesty, targetting you.....Twisted
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#618 - 2013-05-07 09:52:03 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Slot layout: 7H(-1), 7M(+1), 5L; 4 turrets , 7(+1) launchers.

Seriously, 7 launchers and 7 mids slots, plus the upcoming 20-30%buff to cruise missile damage? That is +1000 DPS at range. Now I am not saying I am against it, as when they rebalance my Navy Raven it will also get a boost, but I don't see them giving the Raven that extra launcher.


Yeah, the Raven's problems aren't ones of DPS, they're ones of survivability, mobility and the existence of ABCs. Throwing more DPS at it may make a lot of mission runners happy, but it won't solve the actual problems.
Bigg Gun
T.I.E. Inc.
#619 - 2013-05-07 10:13:43 UTC
vargur has 1300 dps at 20 , at 50 it's 1/3 that(especially with nerf to TE) Tach paladin similarly has high dps at <45km . and blaster mega is what <20km range?
1000 DPS @ 150 is unparalleled for any ship.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#620 - 2013-05-07 10:21:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme more Cynos
7 launchers + 25% Rof means 8.75 effective Launchers.. now lets have a look on the new Hyperion, which gets 9 effective turrets, at the fitting costs of 6..

Even the mega does have 8.75 effective turrets.. after the rebalance..

Considering this, 8.75 launchers wouldn't be too much for the only combat-oriented missile boat on caldari site.. yet, the Raven remains at 7.5 effective launchers... don't know what to say.. If 1k DPS is too huge for a long range plattform using T2 Ammo (with 7 bonus'ed launchers with 4 Faction CN BCU's that is).. is a question I can't answer, that's up to the devs.