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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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Author
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#461 - 2013-04-25 21:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
So I'm wondering....why is the caldari thread about 1/2-1/4 the length of the other races?

Have the caldari boats landed well, or is it simply less people fly them in anger so there are fewer voices commenting?
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#462 - 2013-04-25 22:08:05 UTC
I think the scorp should be the disruptir equivalent to the geddon, a good ewar bonus along with a dps bonus.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Aglais
Ice-Storm
#463 - 2013-04-25 22:18:32 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
So I'm wondering....why is the caldari thread about 1/2-1/4 the length of the other races?

Have the caldari boats landed well, or is it simply less people fly them in anger so there are fewer voices commenting?


Arguably, the Caldari battleships (especially the Raven) are almost the worst off. The reason I think nobody is voicing their opinions is, I'm pretty sure, that everyone who 'cares' has no problems with this because it barely effects the Raven's PvE capabilities, and as a result, the PvE near-bots who would be flying all of these ravens in L4s really have nothing to say.

And then the Raven was still somewhat subpar for PvP even though it's in a slightly better position than before. Not enough has been done to address it's problems.
Bucca Zerodyme
Good For Nothing Corporation
#464 - 2013-04-26 01:12:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bucca Zerodyme
Aglais wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
So I'm wondering....why is the caldari thread about 1/2-1/4 the length of the other races?

Have the caldari boats landed well, or is it simply less people fly them in anger so there are fewer voices commenting?


Arguably, the Caldari battleships (especially the Raven) are almost the worst off. The reason I think nobody is voicing their opinions is, I'm pretty sure, that everyone who 'cares' has no problems with this because it barely effects the Raven's PvE capabilities, and as a result, the PvE near-bots who would be flying all of these ravens in L4s really have nothing to say.

And then the Raven was still somewhat subpar for PvP even though it's in a slightly better position than before. Not enough has been done to address it's problems.


Actually the main problem with the raven is not the ship, but the weapon it uses.
For PvE the Raven doesnt change much, it has less EHP, but ravens in PvE are usually active tanked.
For PvE the raven doesnt really get better or worse, the 7th midslot is nice for the raven, but i doesnt need it on my raven.
The range-bonus is a bit silly for cruise and torps need about 50% more range to make the bonus good on the raven.

For PvP, the raven is just a really bad choice.
- It cant sniper, missiles have delay and you can probed fast.
- Brawler doesnt work, because you has bad tank
- Missiles in generally have a bad dmg application
- Torps dont have enough range
- Typhoon is almost better in any way.
- T2 Fury missiles just suck in PvP [which need to be usefully because they do good dmg]

Dunno about the other ships, didnt used them so often atm.
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#465 - 2013-04-26 02:15:26 UTC
Scorpion is worthless despite changes due to problems with ECM mechanics.

Rohk is getting nerf with respect to tank which is one of the only things going for it.

However, nobody really flies Caldari for PvP. Therefore, there is less of the hell-brimstone as with Amarr. There are just fewer people that care.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#466 - 2013-04-26 05:37:58 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
So I'm wondering....why is the caldari thread about 1/2-1/4 the length of the other races?

Have the caldari boats landed well, or is it simply less people fly them in anger so there are fewer voices commenting?

Cause years on neglection made caldari the least used race for pvp,except maybe tengu , exdrake , rokh,falcon. And look at what ccp does, nerfing the caldari ships that are being used ,good bye drake ,good bye ecm ships , soon good bye rokh.

It is clear that devs are biased against caldari, why would they make the raven just a poor typhoon?
Or keeping scorpion so crappy.
Or the best ,t1 battlecruiser balance ferox , they even said that the ferox will be crap with rails and still did nothing to make it viable.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#467 - 2013-04-26 19:14:55 UTC
Just a heads up, but no one will stop using the Rokh because of a 5% EHP nerf. Or the Drake, come to that.

Hope this helped you more than hyperbole is helping your credibility.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#468 - 2013-04-26 19:55:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Just a heads up, but no one will stop using the Rokh because of a 5% EHP nerf. Or the Drake, come to that.

Hope this helped you more than hyperbole is helping your credibility.


It's Naomi, the sky is always falling on her, it's just so unfair and it's all CCP's fault... Straight
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#469 - 2013-04-26 20:41:25 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Just a heads up, but no one will stop using the Rokh because of a 5% EHP nerf. Or the Drake, come to that.

Hope this helped you more than hyperbole is helping your credibility.


True, but certainly for the drake, that is /nothing/ to do with the resists and everything to do with how much it overshadows the crappy ferox. The is broadly true for the rokh too.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#470 - 2013-04-27 06:08:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Malcanis wrote:
Just a heads up, but no one will stop using the Rokh because of a 5% EHP nerf. Or the Drake, come to that.

Hope this helped you more than hyperbole is helping your credibility.


Are you seriously hinting that caldari ships are common in pvp? Tengu,Drake..The missile system that made them worth while was just nerfed and with the resist nerf, it will be another nerf on top.

Drakes are no longer the most used PVP ship and Rokh isnt widely used. Tengu has limited uses with cost and you will never have a 100 man falcon fleet.

So considering every ship in the caldari line up is out shined by other races. The missile system is garbage for long range and the torps suck. While finally cruise missiles are getting a buff after oh 7 years?

Im struggling to see where caldari is so good. In terms of number of ships used in PVP, they are the least used race, one battleship is viable yet, you can will find the other races battle ships are better.

Their Hac's are garbage, worst of all races,recons are very limited. The most widely used battle cruiser for ease of new pilots to get involved into large fleet pvp is no longer number 1.

So where does that leave them? Oh wait, no where. The drake was caldari's only large number pvp ship.

Of the top 10 most used ships in pvp, caldari had 1...

From a lore of superior shield systems and weapon systems, they are the worst race to use and least used in game...Yea how about those caldari.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#471 - 2013-04-27 06:19:37 UTC
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:
Scorpion is worthless despite changes due to problems with ECM mechanics.

Rohk is getting nerf with respect to tank which is one of the only things going for it.

However, nobody really flies Caldari for PvP. Therefore, there is less of the hell-brimstone as with Amarr. There are just fewer people that care.


Thats pretty much it in a nutshell. So many people who started caldari went on to fly other races ships because caldari ships in general suck..

Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#472 - 2013-04-27 06:27:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
So I'm wondering....why is the caldari thread about 1/2-1/4 the length of the other races?

Have the caldari boats landed well, or is it simply less people fly them in anger so there are fewer voices commenting?



Not many people fly them anymore. The Raven was used for pve because it was garbage for pvp while the Rokh gets some use in pvp. The drake used to be the most common pvp ship because it was noob friendly and heavy missiles though sucky in dps, could be projected for awesome range, the weapon system took a nerf bat and now it no longer is number 1.

Goonswarm found use in the drake and took it from a seldom used pvp ship to a giant ball of caldari death, because of this, and with their numbers it worked well for them. Then a bunch of cry babies complained how the drake was over powered yet it had not been touched by the devs for years and when creativity came about it suddenly became unfair.


The Naga is alright but the Talos can still snipe just not as far but still provide superior dps and a set of small drones to help fend off frigs.
Once you hit 150km out, probers will have you scanned down in seconds and its over. The Talos can easily snipe that distance if needed.




Falcon has limited use, and though caldari has a few decent frig hulls, they are still lacking compared to others.

So thats pretty much it.

Dont ask about caldari Hac's, they are the worst in game and undocking in an Eagle will either get you laughed at because will think you are joking about bringing it to fleet or they will just outright kick you for trying to use it.
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes
#473 - 2013-04-27 07:13:05 UTC
Hagika wrote:



The Naga is alright but the Talos can still snipe just not as far but still provide superior dps and a set of small drones to help fend off frigs.
Once you hit 150km out, probers will have you scanned down in seconds and its over. The Talos can easily snipe that distance if needed.



and yet it's the naga that fills that role, not the Talos. All those silly people getting it wrong. They should just listen to you instead.Ugh
Jitoru
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#474 - 2013-04-27 12:32:04 UTC
Hey there,
wanted to make following Suggestions for the Bonuses of Caldari ships:

Raven: (not touching her, think the bonuses are fine)

Rokh:
+10% optimal Range/level
+5% Large Hybrid WEapon damage

or:
-2 Turrets
+10% optimal Range/level
+10% Large Hybrid Weapon Damage
________________________________

Scorpion:
6 Turrets
+5%/level Large Hybrid Weapon Damage /Rate of fire (choose one)
+4%/level Shield Resistance (5% would be my aim, but you wanted to change the resistance bonuses)
Role Bonus: 50% increased ECM Range

What do you guys think?

have a nice day

Jitoru
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#475 - 2013-04-27 13:34:07 UTC
I remember that the Scorpion used to be a turret boat and she got the ecm later.

And I already stated they should give her either the turret slots or launcher hardpoints back to make it a ballteship again - a large boat with guns or missiles on it that hurt other ships not pockes them in the eyes.

But Kil2 and Fozzie are at the Fanfest and none of them reads the forums until next week, so wen won't get any response from them until then.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#476 - 2013-04-27 15:04:59 UTC
Jitoru wrote:
Hey there,
wanted to make following Suggestions for the Bonuses of Caldari ships:

Raven: (not touching her, think the bonuses are fine)

Rokh:
+10% optimal Range/level
+5% Large Hybrid WEapon damage

or:
-2 Turrets
+10% optimal Range/level
+10% Large Hybrid Weapon Damage
________________________________

Scorpion:
6 Turrets
+5%/level Large Hybrid Weapon Damage /Rate of fire (choose one)
+4%/level Shield Resistance (5% would be my aim, but you wanted to change the resistance bonuses)
Role Bonus: 50% increased ECM Range

What do you guys think?

have a nice day

Jitoru


I'm fine with the scorpion but in your case with the rohk, the Hyperion would need a slightly higher damage increase per level to distinguish the ships to their intended roles.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--

Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#477 - 2013-04-27 16:24:31 UTC
Nikuno wrote:
Hagika wrote:



The Naga is alright but the Talos can still snipe just not as far but still provide superior dps and a set of small drones to help fend off frigs.
Once you hit 150km out, probers will have you scanned down in seconds and its over. The Talos can easily snipe that distance if needed.



and yet it's the naga that fills that role, not the Talos. All those silly people getting it wrong. They should just listen to you instead.Ugh



A fat kid can throw on running shoes and fill the rolls of an olympic runner, doesnt mean you would pic him over the olympic runner.

A Raven can fill a snipe roll with cruise missiles over another sniper ship..Would you actually do it? No... Which bring me to the original point.. Best ship for the job and guess what? Caldari does not have those.
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#478 - 2013-04-27 16:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenshi Hanshin
Hagika wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
So I'm wondering....why is the caldari thread about 1/2-1/4 the length of the other races?

Have the caldari boats landed well, or is it simply less people fly them in anger so there are fewer voices commenting?



Not many people fly them anymore. The Raven was used for pve because it was garbage for pvp while the Rokh gets some use in pvp. The drake used to be the most common pvp ship because it was noob friendly and heavy missiles though sucky in dps, could be projected for awesome range, the weapon system took a nerf bat and now it no longer is number 1.

Goonswarm found use in the drake and took it from a seldom used pvp ship to a giant ball of caldari death, because of this, and with their numbers it worked well for them. Then a bunch of cry babies complained how the drake was over powered yet it had not been touched by the devs for years and when creativity came about it suddenly became unfair.


The Naga is alright but the Talos can still snipe just not as far but still provide superior dps and a set of small drones to help fend off frigs.
Once you hit 150km out, probers will have you scanned down in seconds and its over. The Talos can easily snipe that distance if needed.




Falcon has limited use, and though caldari has a few decent frig hulls, they are still lacking compared to others.

So thats pretty much it.

Dont ask about caldari Hac's, they are the worst in game and undocking in an Eagle will either get you laughed at because will think you are joking about bringing it to fleet or they will just outright kick you for trying to use it.


No alliance will field them except for Goonswarm as they have the isk and numbers to maybe pull it off. The rest of us, they are worthless hulls just like 99% of Caldari ships. I don't fly a drake anymore, can't get enough damage on target to justify it. Rohk I can fly but won't with the changes they are doing. As that 5% of EM will severely hurt shield tanking Caldari ships.

If you fly winmatar use Proton, Depleted Uranium or EMP and you got a Caldari ship in the bag. The resistances just won't be high enough to allow for a feasible tank.
Kenshi Hanshin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#479 - 2013-04-27 16:32:33 UTC
Drake Doe wrote:
Jitoru wrote:
Hey there,
wanted to make following Suggestions for the Bonuses of Caldari ships:

Raven: (not touching her, think the bonuses are fine)

Rokh:
+10% optimal Range/level
+5% Large Hybrid WEapon damage

or:
-2 Turrets
+10% optimal Range/level
+10% Large Hybrid Weapon Damage
________________________________

Scorpion:
6 Turrets
+5%/level Large Hybrid Weapon Damage /Rate of fire (choose one)
+4%/level Shield Resistance (5% would be my aim, but you wanted to change the resistance bonuses)
Role Bonus: 50% increased ECM Range

What do you guys think?

have a nice day

Jitoru


I'm fine with the scorpion but in your case with the rohk, the Hyperion would need a slightly higher damage increase per level to distinguish the ships to their intended roles.



Regardless if the resistance bonus is reduced Caldari ships must have a buff to their base shield HP. Otherwise the result is a nerf to their tanking. Which is not exactly up to snuff when it comes to PvP. As has been said before, so much for the Caldari (lore) of having advanced shield and weapon systems...
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#480 - 2013-04-27 18:11:05 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Just a heads up, but no one will stop using the Rokh because of a 5% EHP nerf. Or the Drake, come to that.

Hope this helped you more than hyperbole is helping your credibility.


True, but certainly for the drake, that is /nothing/ to do with the resists and everything to do with how much it overshadows the crappy ferox. The is broadly true for the rokh too.


So given that those ships are over shadowed, we instead nerf the working ones to their level in order to make them look better? I am really trying to figure out that train of thought, seriously that just continues the status quo of making caldaris whole line up of ships garbage.

So will people finally be happy when caldari has no real point of being in the game? Because that trend has been mostly true for years now and with the continued pointless nerfs, many people even question why caldari is still a playable race.

Being that lore states caldari as superior shield and weapon systems which is certainly not true in any aspect.

ECM is the last thing that keeps caldari going and its in very limited use and with the constant nerf ECM of nerf Falcon cries, it is also slowly becoming useless.

I fly pretty much gallente with a couple things caldari and Minnie. My other pilot is Amarr spec. I feel bad for caldari pilots, they truly get the shaft.

Then god forbid if anyone questions winmatar superiority, you practically get called a racist for wanting any of their ships tuned down. Its amazing how rust buckets with duct tape do so well and find that minnie ships are pretty much the most used ships in game.