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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Caldari

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Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#401 - 2013-04-22 15:48:35 UTC
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Can we give the Raven some more cap and cap recharge please, or give all the Attack Battleships a role bonus that reduces cap requirement of MicroWarpdrives by 25%?

MWD on a battleship is fail. the sig bloom gives you the signature radius of a small POS. The huge signature radius makes you so easy to hit the increased speed will not help you much. Except for traveling between gates.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#402 - 2013-04-22 17:18:57 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Can we give the Raven some more cap and cap recharge please, or give all the Attack Battleships a role bonus that reduces cap requirement of MicroWarpdrives by 25%?

MWD on a battleship is fail. the sig bloom gives you the signature radius of a small POS. The huge signature radius makes you so easy to hit the increased speed will not help you much. Except for traveling between gates.


Meanwhile, away from bears endlessly running L4 missions... Roll
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#403 - 2013-04-22 17:26:55 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Can we give the Raven some more cap and cap recharge please, or give all the Attack Battleships a role bonus that reduces cap requirement of MicroWarpdrives by 25%?

MWD on a battleship is fail. the sig bloom gives you the signature radius of a small POS. The huge signature radius makes you so easy to hit the increased speed will not help you much. Except for traveling between gates.


sig bloom or not sorry but the raven is already over the sig treshold no matter how much larger it gets it stills hit for full dmg:I

and mwd fail? that is one of the best modules in eve ,even for a bs, it just gives you so many options it is a must fit in most situations
ab good luck reaching anything or anybody, anyway pointless to sig tank in a shield tanking caldari bs
mjd could work ,but not so great for attack bs role imho, thou this needs some testing in actual pvp

I dont think the raven needs more cap ,you could fit a cap booster and have plenty for the fight.
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#404 - 2013-04-22 17:31:15 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Can we give the Raven some more cap and cap recharge please, or give all the Attack Battleships a role bonus that reduces cap requirement of MicroWarpdrives by 25%?

MWD on a battleship is fail. the sig bloom gives you the signature radius of a small POS. The huge signature radius makes you so easy to hit the increased speed will not help you much. Except for traveling between gates.


sig bloom or not sorry but the raven is already over the sig treshold no matter how much larger it gets it stills hit for full dmg:I

and mwd fail? that is one of the best modules in eve ,even for a bs, it just gives you so many options it is a must fit in most situations
ab good luck reaching anything or anybody, anyway pointless to sig tank in a shield tanking caldari bs
mjd could work ,but not so great for attack bs role imho, thou this needs some testing in actual pvp

I dont think the raven needs more cap ,you could fit a cap booster and have plenty for the fight.


the raven for a good tank and good dps and im meaning good tank and around 700 dps we already sacrafise 1 mid, 2 lows and 2 rig slots to keep it running stable and its not even that stable at just 33% or so not something a mission runner wants in a room with potential neuts and a whole crap load of incomeing em and therm dmg with warp scrams on em but we do it anyways.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#405 - 2013-04-22 17:49:08 UTC
serras bang wrote:

the raven for a good tank and good dps and im meaning good tank and around 700 dps we already sacrafise 1 mid, 2 lows and 2 rig slots to keep it running stable and its not even that stable at just 33% or so not something a mission runner wants in a room with potential neuts and a whole crap load of incomeing em and therm dmg with warp scrams on em but we do it anyways.

thats pve I wrote about pvp
sorry but I think ships should be balanced with pvp in mind ,
still i cant see why you need more cap than the current raven as it probably can do lvl4-s as you wrote
btw there are many better alternative ships to do missioning
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#406 - 2013-04-22 18:08:51 UTC
Sigh... I want a Stable MWD so i can run it like my nano caracal and nano drake fit that can run their MWD stable and kite for pvp, call me a carebear again Gypsio III il come and hunt ur ass, dont Profile people buddy makes you look like a c***.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
serras bang
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#407 - 2013-04-22 19:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: serras bang
Naomi Knight wrote:
serras bang wrote:

the raven for a good tank and good dps and im meaning good tank and around 700 dps we already sacrafise 1 mid, 2 lows and 2 rig slots to keep it running stable and its not even that stable at just 33% or so not something a mission runner wants in a room with potential neuts and a whole crap load of incomeing em and therm dmg with warp scrams on em but we do it anyways.

thats pve I wrote about pvp
sorry but I think ships should be balanced with pvp in mind ,
still i cant see why you need more cap than the current raven as it probably can do lvl4-s as you wrote
btw there are many better alternative ships to do missioning


erm yeah what other bs can a caldari missle specalist fly ? and although a ship can be used for pvp it should not be ballanced with the view soley on pvp witch currently a lot of ships have been as it leave mission runners and people that just generaly wanna play for fun out in the cold.

as for current raven doing lvl 4-s as i wrote it it can but with faily major problems especialy with explosive radius and trying to kill smaller faster ships and oh yeah the setup i wrote down you need to spend around 2 billion isk on that setup.

if you dont you have a raven with a massive tank and low dps or a raven with a bad tank and mediocer dps.
SlaughterhouseDb
3MR Incorporated
#408 - 2013-04-22 19:55:58 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
[quote]

there is a way , just boost ecm strength bonus /lvl for the scorp(what i would like to see) other than that a complet ecm remake is needed



I can't help but agree with this. My first BS was a Scorp, back when they were ugly. I loved it and poured money and SP's all over it but I couldn't get it to fight, tank, or jam worth a damn. I eventually moved on to a Rattlesnake because the passive tank made it hard to kill, so there was at least something to be proud of. But in this iteration all I see is the continuation of the idea that the Scorp is only for PvP masochists who enjoy getting primaried. I'd ask that the jammers get tweaked to the point that they can help the Scorp avoid damage equal to the amount of tank those slots would otherwise give; if not, why bother with the bonus at all? Being able to not jam at long range is just as useless as being able to not jam at short range. If an unbonused LSE II can keep me alive longer than a bonused 'Umbra', why would I bother with ECM?
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#409 - 2013-04-22 21:27:14 UTC
If Scorps are really bad, why do they always get primaried?
Bucca Zerodyme
Good For Nothing Corporation
#410 - 2013-04-22 22:27:37 UTC
serras bang wrote:

erm yeah what other bs can a caldari missle specalist fly ? and although a ship can be used for pvp it should not be ballanced with the view soley on pvp witch currently a lot of ships have been as it leave mission runners and people that just generaly wanna play for fun out in the cold.

as for current raven doing lvl 4-s as i wrote it it can but with faily major problems especialy with explosive radius and trying to kill smaller faster ships and oh yeah the setup i wrote down you need to spend around 2 billion isk on that setup.

if you dont you have a raven with a massive tank and low dps or a raven with a bad tank and mediocer dps.


Im sry to say this: Learn how to play.
You dont need a 2b fit to make a raven good in PvE:
- Raven dont need to be stable, its a burst tank ship
- Raven is good with a single T2 Lage Shield booster [in most cases]
- Keep your range with a AB, if its gets ugly against turret ships
- Use 2 Kinetic hardener against Guristas
- Know how you do a mission with low risk
- Use Overheat
You can do almost any mission with a raven, if you know how to deal with the enemy. I agree its not always easy but its not impossible.

Gypsio III wrote:
If Scorps are really bad, why do they always get primaried?


Because they die fast and nobody like ECM.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#411 - 2013-04-22 23:51:41 UTC
Bucca Zerodyme wrote:


Gypsio III wrote:
If Scorps are really bad, why do they always get primaried?


Because they die fast and nobody like ECM.


I wouldn't call 129k EHP before links particularly fragile. And I wonder why people don't like ECM. It's almost as if they believe that the ship is a serious threat.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#412 - 2013-04-23 00:06:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Aglais
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Can we give the Raven some more cap and cap recharge please, or give all the Attack Battleships a role bonus that reduces cap requirement of MicroWarpdrives by 25%?

MWD on a battleship is fail. the sig bloom gives you the signature radius of a small POS. The huge signature radius makes you so easy to hit the increased speed will not help you much. Except for traveling between gates.


...Who said this was for sig tanking? 1:50 of MWD time is horrendous, and does not allow you to actually take advantage of increased speed; this barely has anything to do with sig tanking and really is more of a range dictation thing.

I'm not even talking about the Raven being cap stable with a MWD and modules running. Having a capacitor lifetime of 5 to 7 minutes would be great. Battleship fights tend not to be quick, like frigate/cruiser fights, from my experience.

You fail for not realizing that microwarpdrives are exceptionally important on almost any PvP fit ship. Also I support this general attack battleship role bonus suggestion.

Also, for all the PvEtards who keep whining about how the Raven isn't being balanced around that instead:

You have a reasonably fast moving battleship that I swear to god instapops frigate and destroyer rats if you have the new precision cruise missiles of proper damage type and a painter handy. I also think there should be less of a split between PvP and PvE content to just make the game better as a whole, because tanking 80 weak as hell NPCs for hours while slowly whittling their numbers down is just about the opposite of thrilling.
Bucca Zerodyme
Good For Nothing Corporation
#413 - 2013-04-23 01:34:03 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:


I wouldn't call 129k EHP before links particularly fragile. And I wonder why people don't like ECM. It's almost as if they believe that the ship is a serious threat.


I dont think you get a Tank about 129K EHP if you want to use ECM on your scorpion. If you dont use ECM on the scorpion then you obviously picked the wrong ship. If the hostile FC notice you fitted for Tank instead of ECM, then he will likely switch the target, because a scorpion without ECM its not a treat.

Player dont like ECM, because it can disturb your whole fleet or at least be a nuisance, depends on your fleet size.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#414 - 2013-04-23 05:09:13 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:


I wouldn't call 129k EHP before links particularly fragile. And I wonder why people don't like ECM. It's almost as if they believe that the ship is a serious threat.

Currently a heavy tanked scorp has 96k ehp that isnt much ,no wonder it is primary it is probably the most paper easy to kill enemy bs on the field.
Proposed scorp can have 119k with armor tank. Dunno where do you get the 129k ehp. And it reaches this putting up 0 signal d.amps, which is similar to dont use dmg mods for dps ships. With 1 signal d.amps it drops to 100k ehp. And with constant ecm nerf its ability to jam is became too weak.
If 7.8 jamm strenght with 97km opt with racional jammers everything maxed sounds good to you , i think you just never tried to use it in actual fight. With 3 jamms it gives you 65% to jamm an average(same race bs as the jammers) enemy bs in your optimal , oh yes that is so threatening. So that they are a threat is more or less due to ecm in the past ,and some people just didnt adapt, and it has nothing to do with actual scorps performance.
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#415 - 2013-04-23 07:45:10 UTC
Given that the Phoon applies damage better than the Raven, please either make the raven apply damage better or give it another launcher slot to add more dps to compensate. The Raven is absolutely **** for a battleship and it needs to be boosted significantly in order to make it better.

The irony of lore stating Caldari superiority when they are certainly not and the Raven is useless in PVP.
Grunnax Aurelius
State War Academy
Caldari State
#416 - 2013-04-23 08:17:36 UTC
Hagika wrote:
Given that the Phoon applies damage better than the Raven, please either make the raven apply damage better or give it another launcher slot to add more dps to compensate. The Raven is absolutely **** for a battleship and it needs to be boosted significantly in order to make it better.

The irony of lore stating Caldari superiority when they are certainly not and the Raven is useless in PVP.

I have tested the raven on duality it rapes the typhoon.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#417 - 2013-04-23 08:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Given that the Phoon applies damage better than the Raven, please either make the raven apply damage better or give it another launcher slot to add more dps to compensate. The Raven is absolutely **** for a battleship and it needs to be boosted significantly in order to make it better.

The irony of lore stating Caldari superiority when they are certainly not and the Raven is useless in PVP.

I have tested the raven on duality it rapes the typhoon.



Let me guess, you put them face to face, standing still and just shot till one died....

That doesnt exclude the fact that the raven is still a sub par pvp ship compared to the others.
Naomi Knight
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#418 - 2013-04-23 08:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Naomi Knight
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Given that the Phoon applies damage better than the Raven, please either make the raven apply damage better or give it another launcher slot to add more dps to compensate. The Raven is absolutely **** for a battleship and it needs to be boosted significantly in order to make it better.

The irony of lore stating Caldari superiority when they are certainly not and the Raven is useless in PVP.

I have tested the raven on duality it rapes the typhoon.

rofl :D
so pls post here what you used what the enemy used + implants ^^
Hagika
Standard Corp 123
#419 - 2013-04-23 08:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Hagika
Naomi Knight wrote:
Grunnax Aurelius wrote:
Hagika wrote:
Given that the Phoon applies damage better than the Raven, please either make the raven apply damage better or give it another launcher slot to add more dps to compensate. The Raven is absolutely **** for a battleship and it needs to be boosted significantly in order to make it better.

The irony of lore stating Caldari superiority when they are certainly not and the Raven is useless in PVP.

I have tested the raven on duality it rapes the typhoon.

rofl :D
so pls post here what you used what the enemy used + implants ^^


Thankyou !

Cause if he was using torps, an orbiting Phoon with AB will null a ton of damage and even MWD'ing as well.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#420 - 2013-04-23 11:00:19 UTC
Naomi Knight wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:


I wouldn't call 129k EHP before links particularly fragile. And I wonder why people don't like ECM. It's almost as if they believe that the ship is a serious threat.

Currently a heavy tanked scorp has 96k ehp that isnt much ,no wonder it is primary it is probably the most paper easy to kill enemy bs on the field.
Proposed scorp can have 119k with armor tank. Dunno where do you get the 129k ehp. And it reaches this putting up 0 signal d.amps, which is similar to dont use dmg mods for dps ships. With 1 signal d.amps it drops to 100k ehp. And with constant ecm nerf its ability to jam is became too weak.
If 7.8 jamm strenght with 97km opt with racional jammers everything maxed sounds good to you , i think you just never tried to use it in actual fight. With 3 jamms it gives you 65% to jamm an average(same race bs as the jammers) enemy bs in your optimal , oh yes that is so threatening. So that they are a threat is more or less due to ecm in the past ,and some people just didnt adapt, and it has nothing to do with actual scorps performance.


Add in squad bonuses.

The rest of your post is an argument that ECM on a tanked Scorp is so weak that the Scorpion should not be primaried. But Scorpions still get primaried. Your argument is internally contradictory - either decide that Scorps are so weak that nobody primaries then and hence tank is unimportant, or that they need a decent tank because they do get primaried because they are a threat.