Player Features and Ideas Discussion

These new tier4 battlecruisers are cool but where are the real battleships?

But really, now with the faction battlecruisers it's getting pretty cramped in there to balance everything without stomping on the shoes of others...

Yeah, I get the feeling that there isn't going to be such thing as a battleship anymore. Now all they are nothing but slow battlecruisers with slightly higher HP. Whoop dee doo.
I would think that battleships would be much better at tanking, but much worse at hitting smaller things. But then again, that would make too much sense, and take too much time.

- - Tosh

Raven: More CPU
Rokh: Hmmmmm, in this case, resistance nerf a bit harsh
Scorp: Probably as good as it'll get

The scorpion seems to be so useless, especially as its cost probably will be increased :(

did u find any soso fit for it?

Funnily enough, I believe going way way waaaay back, ECM was a high slot module (before my time, can't find relevant link anymore).

Worth looking into IMO, as ECM still stands out from other EW as being fairly unique, high slot ECM would open some interesting possibilities.

so? how is that relevant at all?

When trying to improve the Raven, I always ask myself "At what job is it the best battleship ?".

And for now, all I could answer was "The Raven is always outclassed by at the very least one battleship, if not two."

It is indeed a huge improvement as a Torp platform. Considering how ****** it was, a huge improvement brings it to a "Almost good" level.

I've been running the numbers on the Raven vs the Typhoon and come to the conclusion that the Typhoon is a better version of the Raven?

Typhoon:
Slots: 7/5/7 (this is huge - those lows mean way more BCS or Power relays)
HP: 6500/6000/6000
Weapons: 6 Launchers
Bonuses: 5% ROF/5% explosion velocity (even more damage)
Cap: 5400
Drone: 100/100

Raven:
Slots: 7/7/5
HP:7000/5800/6400
Weapons: 6 Launchers
Bonuses: 5% ROF/10% Velocity
Cap: 5500
Drone: 50/75 (well at least it can still use 5 mediums still)

My question to the DEV is what will set the Raven apart from the Typhoon as a special role/bonus, given that it's the Caldari's main missile boat? To be honest, we don't need extra range for cruise missiles - they already easily are longer than the thing can possibly target. 200KM almost. Given the flight time, missiles aren't really, um... sniper weapons.

Please give the Raven some sort of bonus that makes it different in a meaningful way. I'd suggest dropping the Cruise Missile bonuses and making it a dedicated torpedo boat that makes torpedos a special option for it (say a 15% velocity mod to give it enough range to do missions)

Torpedos have no love as it is and they are relegated to station and bubble bashing. Their range even with mods is just barely over 30K, making them useless for missions as rats sit at 45km, typically (at least the larger ones that drones can't clear by themselves)

Think about it not by ship, but by weapon type for a minute.
- If you want to use Cruise Missiles, the choice is clear. Grab the Typhoon. Less range (big deal - well over 100KM anyways), way more damage, able to hit smaller targets better. Add precision cruises and you smack destroyers and larger for full damage without rigs? Add t2 rigs on top, and it gets the sig down to nearly removing the sig penalty for even frigates. We're talking Precision cruises with an explosion radius of almost 50 meters. Ouch.

I love this change, mind you. It makes the Typhoon shine in so many ways in its new role.

- If you want torps, you still chose the Typhoon. The Raven's range isn't enough to allow for meaningful mission or complex running, and the low slots on the Typhoon mean you can put two more BCS on a pure damage fit.

The Raven shines in no way in its new role by comparison. It's simply out-classed by the Typhoon. Which is why putting it as the default Torpedo ship/role would at least give it a place to shine.

If you make the Raven a dedicated Torpedo boat its nothing but a shiney Typhoon and then you have two ships the exact same. Caldari is a ranged kitting missile race and should be treated as such.

Caldari as you know are the most advanced race when it comes to Shield and Missile systems, now what i find odd is that the Typhoon has a skill bonus that affects the way damage is applied by missiles, when this would clearly be a Caldari thing. I suggest giving the Typhoon a 5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level or 5% bonus to Stasis Webifier propultion jam strength per level as that is the Minmatar's area of expertise, it will make taking on Battlecruisers easier than having a Explosion Velocity bonus.

This is the Raven and the Typhoon, the Raven is supposed to be a Kitting Missile Ship, and the Typhoon a Brawling Missile Ship.

Raven
Caldari Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% bonus to Cruise and Torpedo Launcher rate of fire
+10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity
Slot layout: 7H, 7M, 5L; 0 turrets , 6 launchers

Typhoon
Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+5% to Cruise and Torpedo launcher rate of fire
+5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity
Slot layout: 7H, 5M, 7L; 5 turrets , 6 launchers

What I propose is that the Raven replaces its +10% bonus to Cruise Missile Torpedo Velocity per level, for the +5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity per level. This would notion that the Raven should be Cruise Missile fitted and apply its damage easier as well as the Typhoon. CCP Rise did confirm that Cruise Missiles are getting a revamp and increased damage so Cruise Missiles wont be a bad choice anymore making this change extremely relevant and being a Kitting designed ship it should notion fitting Cruise Missiles. Also it should be given 1 more Launcher slot to help compensate for damage, but this eaxtra launcher point will depend on the changes to Cruise Missiles.
The Typhoon replaces its +5% Cruise Missile and Torpedo explosion velocity per level with either a 5% bonus to Target Painter effectiveness per level or a 5% bonus to Stasis Webifier effectiveness per level. Both these bonuses help Torpedo's on applying easier damage to target. I would personally like a Target Painter bonus but thats just me.

These changes bring both ships into a really nice category and don't conflict with each other as much in terms of arguments of one being better than the other.

CCP Rise please take this into consideration, they are not game breaking changes, they just small changes that bring both ships into line with each other with the defining feature of one being a brawling torpedo boat and one being a kitting cruise missile boat.

Wouldnt it make more sense to remote both the current bonus' on the Raven and replace them with an Explosion Velocity and a Explosion Radius bonus?

7 Mid slots is still not enough really for a ship using torps to effectively fit a tank and mods to help it do damage. At least with the bonus' above the DPS it does will be more likely to actually do something.

The paper DPS on torps is great but at present the ship doesnt even do half that torp damage against small targets unless they have 2 painters and 2 webs on them.

Thats the type of bonus I would like to see, if its a dedicated missile platform it should have bonus' to reflect that.