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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

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Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#321 - 2013-04-09 05:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Crash Lander
There are exactly 2 ships in the game that can fit tachs properly:
1) Paladin: Barely can, it gets Powergrid issues if you try to be creative.
2) Nightmare: fine. This ship frankly makes all Amarr battleships obsolete for PvE including 1). The ultimate expression of how useless armor tanking is within the realm of PvE.

Both are 100% bonused/half rack ships. If I were to go on a limp I would say they don't intend to change this and tachs will remain for those two ships. Everyone else gets pulse or beams.
Isaiah Harms
State War Academy
Caldari State
#322 - 2013-04-09 05:22:06 UTC
Tennessee Jack wrote:
Well I see the need for what the Dev's did.. Essentially, they needed to break up what the boats do... else it'd just be 3 Lazer amarr battleships that essentially do the same thing.

The armageddon is losing slightly something.

The ship has no guns, nor no tank bonus, neut bonus..

It'll work, not in huge fleet conflicts, but definetly more for small to mid size gangs. Its the anti-30km and in fighting ship. Nothing is going to want to get in neut range... good luck though.

I still think the Abaddon should have become the Amarr droneship.



My Armageddon has same tank as most Abaddons. As well as same DPS. The new Armageddon will have more of everything.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#323 - 2013-04-09 05:30:15 UTC
Well, I thought the gallente rebalancing was bad.. lol

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#324 - 2013-04-09 05:51:15 UTC
Because my posts were first censored and then deleted the first time: The Geddon Change is still returded. Leveling down the races is BAD. If you choose a race then it is out of a reason. CCP get rid of this wow mentality damn. Do not try to fix sips that are not broken.

A faction battleship should have its value.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Gordon Esil
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#325 - 2013-04-09 05:52:58 UTC
If the ngeddon stays the same with no effects, then I guess that will be the new "expensive" old-armageddon
Its price will surely go high, but at least we still get the old geddon feeling with a bit of silver effects
* I'm a bit of new pilot here and I'm not having much PVP experience but as far as I've seen, ngeddon/geddon (now) have the same bonuses with more tank on the ngeddon

Note: I'm not sure how or what is the process of CCP to take opinions/changes on the game, if no devs reply on this whole 17+ pages plus debate, I will be really surprised how they just "push" changes without caring about people's thoughts and concerns
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2013-04-09 06:07:29 UTC
Gordon Esil wrote:
If the ngeddon stays the same with no effects, then I guess that will be the new "expensive" old-armageddon
Its price will surely go high, but at least we still get the old geddon feeling with a bit of silver effects
* I'm a bit of new pilot here and I'm not having much PVP experience but as far as I've seen, ngeddon/geddon (now) have the same bonuses with more tank on the ngeddon

Note: I'm not sure how or what is the process of CCP to take opinions/changes on the game, if no devs reply on this whole 17+ pages plus debate, I will be really surprised how they just "push" changes without caring about people's thoughts and concerns

yeah, every now and then CCP will do this, they will get an idea they think is cool, that 99% of people hate or are against, push it out anyways, and then break some other feature to eb mroe like the rpeviously broken feature to "make up for it", resulting in 2 broken features no one wants to be a part of.

just saying CCP, if i had WANTED to use missiles, i woudl have trained up caldari, if i wanted drones, i would have trained up gallente, i trained amarr because i like lasers. i gues this fits into your whole "make crosstraining easier" thing though, but honestly its mroe like "why bother crosstraining when every race has comparable ships for every battlefield role"
NinjaStyle
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#327 - 2013-04-09 06:10:42 UTC
R.I.P. my Best and most treasured old Friend the Armageddon.

Useless range bonus to neuts? great :(

I'm sure on paper it's useless (somehow) but since your Torps wont reach more than 20km whats the point? Cruise? (HAHAHAHAHHAA??? CRUISE?? HAHAHAHAHAHA)

Yes funny **** Cruise works in boxed PvP like Tournaments but it has no place niche in the game as it is atm. besides whats the point in fitting 160km range capable weapons when your bonus and thus your focus for your ship is less than 40km neuts... ?

Atleast with mega Pulses you can reach the same range but with you having to try to run Lasers AND Heavy neuts you will cap your self out and make yourself useless fairly quickly of course you cap inject but that will only make it last for so long. again I don't see this being viable becaus of the heavy cap need. You see this in 0.0 how we've started to run away from doctrines that have such needs becaus of how little sustainability these kinds of things have.

so Torps (or smaller missle launchers? or maybe 800mm Autocannons?????) Heavy Neuts and Heavy drones / sentries... could have some uses I guess but it dossen't sound all that viable as a doctrine and as a 0.0 dweller this is and Lover of the original armageddon this makes me saddest :(

allso have a look at Tachyons as I allready posted about. Being unable to fit a full rack to any Amarr ship at all without needing a Reactor control just to fit them is just not good enught!
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#328 - 2013-04-09 06:21:46 UTC
So, the new Apocalypse can shoot Scorch out to 60km and fully compensates for the tracking penalty from the crystals.

Master of damage application indeed.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#329 - 2013-04-09 06:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Grats, you guys just totally ruined the Armageddon...
those geddon changes are by FAR the worst out of all the ship changes to date.

amarr now also dont have a DPS battleship....yeah, GREAT thinking.
(no, the baddon is NOT a DPS battleship, it's a tank battleship.)

There is no Bob.

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Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#330 - 2013-04-09 07:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarah Schneider
Pelea Ming wrote:
Sarah Schneider wrote:
If the changes to geddon carries over to the faction version... RIP the only proper Amarr PVE Battleship.

Your kidding me, right? If you know what your doing, the 'Baddon makes a great PVE ship. Even if your low skilled, use some LP to get some cap implants.

Wtf are you on about? Baddon has nowhere near the dps and the tank capability of a navy geddon, even napocs doesn't have them. By your logic every ship on the Amarr BS line is a "great" PVE ship. That's hardly relevant.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#331 - 2013-04-09 07:19:12 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Oh, the Nightmare offers ALOT of trade off for it's price tag... it's got the highest DPS of any current hull for lasers,

No. Armageddon Navy Issue currently has the highest DPS capability of any hull in the Amarr/Laserboat BS shipline with almost 200dps higher than the two times more expensive Nightmare fully fitted. Get your facts straight before you post.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
Giribaldi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#332 - 2013-04-09 08:04:42 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Welcome to the Tech 1 Battleship rebalance, fasten your seatbelts!

Armageddon:

This is a fun one. Bet you guys didn't think my first two projects would be to slow down the Talos and throw the old Armageddon out the window! But! I think its the best thing for the race line overall. What we've done here is make the Armageddon an echo to the new dragoon destroyer. It makes sense for Amarr to have a battleship variation that rewards players who've trained for dragoon -> arbitrator -> prophecy, and with the neut range bonus, the Armageddon should be a huge payoff. As the Armageddon is falling under 'combat' it will receive a substantial hitpoint boost, sensor strength boost, sig increase, and speed decrease.

While we understand that this is a very powerful ship, it should not be oppressive. Hopefully it will offer a new type of challenge to fly and fly against. To anyone who is very sad to see the old Armageddon go, I encourage to you consider that if left the same, it would have been even more crowded by the Abaddon as a result of the price adjustment than it already was. Again, we look forward to your feedback.

Amarr Battleship Skill Bonuses:
+10% to Drone damage and Hit Points (replaced large energy turret rate of fire)
+10% Energy Neutralizer and Energy Vampire range (replaced large energy turret cap use)

Slot layout: 7H(-1), 4M(+1), 7L(-1); 5 turrets(-2) , 5 launchers(+5)
Fittings: 14500 PWG(-2000), 550 CPU(+65)
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6800(+1331) / 8500(+1859) / 8000(+1789)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6200(+887.5) / 1087s / 5.7
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 100(-5) / .13(+.002) / 105200000 / 18.96s (+.29)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375(+250)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 65km / 110 / 7
Sensor strength: 21 Radar Sensor Strength (+4)
Signature radius: 450 (+80)


This gave me a woody!
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#333 - 2013-04-09 08:20:12 UTC
While we're at it, would it be possible for CCP to take another look at quad- and dual beam lasers?
Eye-candy is not a viable combat role and maybe with better stats and low cap usage dual beam lasers could be usable on the new Geddon hull.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#334 - 2013-04-09 08:23:33 UTC
Geddon is pure evil now. Twisted
Kerdrak
Querry Moon
#335 - 2013-04-09 08:24:47 UTC
I approve the changes but I indeed will miss the old Armageddon.

New Armageddon is going to be really fun in CQB.
Lady Vorax
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#336 - 2013-04-09 08:25:03 UTC
17 pages of discussion and not a single but of dev input is just another nail in the amarr coffin tbh. But hey its been like that for years and am not expecting change. The geddon has some potential in small fleets but the apoc will still be useless overall. The recharge rate is a nice + on the apoc but does not compensate the loss in cap, it might shoot some nice lasers but most likely not long enough to actually kill stuff (guardians/scimi anyone?) and in prolonged fights it will hurt its ability to keep on going and on top of that there is the -700 armor.
Tub Chil
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#337 - 2013-04-09 08:48:46 UTC
Cost of production will be adjusted to reflect tiericide, but so far we have not settled on exact numbers.

Exact numbers aside, will prices be near T3 or T1?
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#338 - 2013-04-09 08:57:55 UTC
Lady Vorax wrote:
...The recharge rate is a nice + on the apoc but does not compensate the loss in cap, it might shoot some nice lasers but most likely not long enough to actually kill stuff (guardians/scimi anyone?) and in prolonged fights it will hurt its ability to keep on going and on top of that there is the -700 armor.

It is part of the reason why I dislike the direction they want to take, while the three other races are given ships that will work on small as well as large scale, the Amarr hulls are destined to to be secluded in the blob .. only the Bhaal wanna-be Geddon (who came up with the idea of basing it on a blooder concept, mortal enemies .. hello!) will have a place outside of null but probably mostly as a utility boat to abuse neuts (with T1/T2 logi feeding it).

Irate ranting: Still want to know just what the hell they envision, is racial flavour/differences to be removed completely .. reckon it will take just one or two passes after tiericide to do that.
Eroding the learning-cliff a bit is fine, but levelling it and paving the area is not .. Eve is (to me at least) choices (sometimes impossible), sacrifices (sometimes excruciating) and experience (with variety, from reading or actual experience).

PS: I notice that the shield resist bonuses are also being axed, so assume the reduction on shield/armour will be Eve wide. You'll have to go over all the ships with said bonuses and increase damage, speed etc. to make them competitive or even viable .. Punisher for instance works because it can outlast the enemy (usually), that will no longer be case so it need something else.
So give another pass to Moa, Drake, Proph, Puni et al. or you are back where you started with half the ships rarely/never being flown.
PavlikX
Scan Stakan
HOLD MY PROBS
#339 - 2013-04-09 08:58:43 UTC
I dislike -1% to the resists on Abaddon (and Rokh too). Only because there are no similar numbers in game, only 5, 7,5, 10. It will loks strange.
Changes to the Armagedon... well, i was asked for drone bonus. But i guess it will be much much better if ship will receive +5% armor bonus instead of neuts. We are have Bhalgorn to this role.
tasman devil
Puritans
#340 - 2013-04-09 09:10:42 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Welcome to the Tech 1 Battleship rebalance, fasten your seatbelts!

SH*T flying around like he doesn't care



Ok, you don't understand anything about Amarr ships. I'll make this short so you'll understand it.

Abaddon - you leave it mostly as is - the least damage done

Apoc - PG ugprade good (but still not enough!) cap reduction: bad - needs more cap dammit, I can wipe my bottom with the recharge unless the pool is big enough!

Armageddon - was afraid of that. The change in Prophecy was foreshadowing this, still it is now officially a Dominix in an Armageddon skin. Stupid idea to begin with but what the hell? Changing the most iconic laser blasting amarrian golden hull into a drone pooping abomination is nothing to CCP.

I already see the future:
Neut + AC packed Armageddons that make Dominixes and Bhaalghorns obsolete.

I understand that the new credo is diversification (Attack/Combat/Disruption) but this is just plain forcing the issue onto something that had found its niche in the last... oh... 10 years?

So what now: Attack - apoc, Combat - baddon, dirsruption - geddon?


In another news:
WTS Bhaalghorn

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...