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[Odyssey] Tech 1 Battleships - Amarr

First post First post First post
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2013-04-09 02:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Alx Warlord
Nice!!!! Armaggedon!!!! It is taking out the role of my old dominix-cap drainer!!!! And it can use all kind of weapons to suport!!! I want one!!!

Hey, whait! The bonus is for range? not effectiveness?! WHTFH!!!!!!! ADD A BONUS TO EFFECTIVENESS NOW! (can be small thou)
Tennessee Jack
#302 - 2013-04-09 02:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Tennessee Jack
Well I see the need for what the Dev's did.. Essentially, they needed to break up what the boats do... else it'd just be 3 Lazer amarr battleships that essentially do the same thing.

The armageddon is losing slightly something.

The ship has no guns, nor no tank bonus, neut bonus..

It'll work, not in huge fleet conflicts, but definetly more for small to mid size gangs. Its the anti-30km and in fighting ship. Nothing is going to want to get in neut range... good luck though.

I still think the Abaddon should have become the Amarr droneship.
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#303 - 2013-04-09 02:19:08 UTC
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
The Amarr 'drone boat' brain bug needs to be killed with fire, period.

They are not the drone race, the Arbitrator (the first drone boat) was a 'quirk', nothing more, but recent CCP devs (i.e. the last couple years) seem to have allowed this brain bug to grow and grow... Straight

The Arbitrator is unusual for Amarr ships in that it's primarily a drone carrier. While it is not the best carrier around, it has superior armor that gives it greater durability than most ships in its class.

Seriously, stop trampling 10 years of back story for quick gains.

Out of date flavor text aside, Amarr have ALWAYS heavily favored drones. Now if you choose to ignore this fact you'd still be left with the point that 2 missile and 2 drone races are a sound concept and emphasizing this is not a bad thing.

Diversity in your BS lines is a GOOD thing. It makes it more difficult to counter effectively.
Sorry mate but no - they haven't. Short history lesson for you:

The arbitrator was changed to a 'drone boat' in the first pass at cruiser rebalance a good few years ago (this was long after the days when the Thorax was *the* drone cruiser, fielding heavy drones...), but that has never been an Amarr thing until the very recent (in my terms) additions of recons with drones (fine, they are the T2 versions of the arbitrator), drone frigates (Sentinel? that was out of the blue), drone destroyers (ok, where'd that come from?), drone BC (seriously, what?) and now drone BS (no, just no…)

Gallente had the only line of ships that could field 15 (or in the case of the Moros, 35) drones. Perhaps I'm a 'bitter vet' (but I think 9 years of running two accounts entitles me to a pretty strong opinion on the matter...) but I really don't like this homogenising of racial doctrines, as a quick an easy fix to balance (perceived or otherwise) issues.

Amarr are, and have always been about shiny armour ships with lasers. You may think have a 2:2 format is a good idea, I think it’s pretty terrible when there is and always was, scope to keep 4 distinct racial doctrines.

Although you're from Noir which makes me cringe, I agree 100% with this. It seems there's no racial separation anymore, minmatar are getting more missiles, amarr more drones, gallente more mids and therefore more shield tank, it's bloody boring and offers nothing different. I want god damn apartheid, not reconciliation.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8

Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#304 - 2013-04-09 02:23:25 UTC
I'm really feeling a damage bonus rather than a tracking bonus on the Apoc because I feel tracking is more easily compensated for rather than damage which takes up precious low slots and also makes it harder on your cap. It will not overlap too much with the Baddon cause the main reason the Baddon is used is because of resist bonus anyway.
Scarlet Weather Rhapsody
#305 - 2013-04-09 02:54:33 UTC
I personally think the cap bonus of lasers is an old thing of the past that needs to go away. It was mostly used as a means to keep other races from fitting lasers on their ships.

Now with high fitting costs and the projectile buff, people 9/10 will fit projectiles on ships that don't have bonus to weapons including amarr ships that had no bonus to lasers.

I advocate for a reduction in cap usage for all lasers by 33-50%. Even with a 50% reduction lasers still use much more cap than hybrids and an infinite % more than projectiles. But a reduction will make it so that amarr ships won't get capped out so badly just by shooting their own guns.
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#306 - 2013-04-09 03:04:15 UTC
I really think the drone bonused Amarr battleship should be a new hull with a tracking disruption bonus.
Doctor Ape MD
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2013-04-09 03:07:03 UTC
In general I like most of these changes but only if lasers themselves are adjusted.

I want to echo what some other posters have said and ask CCP to pay attention to Amarr mission runners and people leveling up their skills using Amarr ships. Previously the Apocalypse has always been the go to 'new player friendly' Amarr battleship, largely due to the capacitor bonus on the guns. Unfortunately, I feel this has always been a band-aid fix to the real problem with Amarr ships, namely that Lasers are bad and require players to load out their ships with boosters, rechargers, and power relays in order to keep their guns firing.

I strongly suggest that laser cap use gets nerfed across the board.
Shoo Ting
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#308 - 2013-04-09 03:17:15 UTC
I agree.

Reduce Cap Usage to all Lasers.

It has been a long ongoing problem that required ships to lose a bonus(cap usage bonus) just to make them usable.

There is little reason for them to have such a big penalty now that everyone and their grandma fits projectiles on non bonused ships.
Moon Of The Pheonix
#309 - 2013-04-09 03:19:57 UTC
To quote myself from the gall thread

smokeydapot wrote:

How in divinity's edge....................

Wait what...................

Have you been at my stash...................

Can I get some ?

And here I was thinking I was smoking some serious stuff.

Return my stash leave it be and never return or touch it ever ever again its made you so silly i'm loosing all confidence in what you are doing not just to the mega but ALL the battleship hulls.


The Scope
Gallente Federation
#310 - 2013-04-09 03:24:48 UTC
only change I'm concerned about really is the apoc. making it a attack boat means it will be used for more skirmishy stuff, if you can call it that, meaning it will be mwd'ing all over the place and thus killing it's cap. Not sure how you can justify removing it's cap bonous when all amarr bs cap sucks even with the bonous

This does make me nervous about the navy versions and the bhaal. please don't destroy those
Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#311 - 2013-04-09 03:34:45 UTC
In general I'm ok with the changes.

I would like to add my voice to capacitor concerns. I have done this before in previous levels of ship re-balancing, however it is in the BS line that laser cap use has the most problems.

Whether there are changes to the ammo, guns, or hulls. Each of these ships should be able to fit T2 highest tier guns, megapulse or tachs, and not neut itself dry using regular MF ammo. Amarr is the only race that can't continually fire its guns without having to fit some kind or combination of cap modules and rigs. For me this is most annoying when shooting I-Hubs in FW when I have to bring cap charges just to keep shooting a structure. And annoying for new players when first using these ships for PVE.

It makes sense to be cap unstable with even a MWD fitted but this again is an amarr only problem. Using an active tank of any kind, mwding around, ABing around and not cap stable fine. But just sitting there with only a dc and my guns going and I run out of cap that's just dumb and annoying and dare I say unbalanced. Then the insult to injury is since Amarr "don't need ammo" we have teeny tiny cargo holds to hold only 5 mins of Cap Boosters that in now way shape or form count as our ammo or necessary...

On a side note, plan on changing any of the frigates to fall in line with the Dragoon->Arby->Prophecy->Geddon line? I would take a new navy faction frig doesn't have to be a reworked T1.

Eagerly awaiting CCP Rise getting his courage together to rise up into this threadnaught. Though your doing pretty well with half the people hating you for going to far one way and the other hating you for going to far the other.
zar dada
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
#312 - 2013-04-09 03:39:19 UTC
I love the upcoming changes! Please add more changes to all of the things.
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox
#313 - 2013-04-09 03:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Streya Jormagdnir
I'd like to re-voice my support the new Armageddon. While some players are sad to see the missioning Apoc go, I'd like to point out that the Armageddon could easily take its place, using range-bonused Nos on NPCs to sustain a beastly active tank while using capless missile/drone fire that has great range projection . I currently use a missile/drone Typhoon with Noses for running C3 anoms solo, and I can definitely see myself switching to this sweet new Geddon for that very same task. I like my utility highs and my capacitor warfare, and I think those are very underrated things.

A long time ago I heard the "fun" begins when you hit T2 ships for Amarr, since they can offer something "special" rather than just lasers/armor. I'm definitely very glad to see special "neat tricks" being added to T1 hulls!

Heavy neuts, drones, and thick armor are great IMO. I've been specializing in the Dragoon/Arbitrator type hulls for a little while now, and definitely look forward to something beefier for heavier gangs.

<3 these changes

I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.

Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever

Tail Spin Corp
Proxima Centauri Alliance
#314 - 2013-04-09 03:55:54 UTC
thank you, New Armageddon is really nice.

I have one question. why amarr battleships are still so slow? 20 seconds align time is too much for armag. 16 secs must be better, I believe.

so I hope you understand that lasers want to use less capacitor than now, cause it dont get any another power feature, except t2 lens)
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#315 - 2013-04-09 04:02:29 UTC
I wasn't aware the geddon needs breaking. If CCP wants to add a new boat that's drastically different, they should just do it, not breaking a popular boat that's working fine and replacing it. This new novelty comes at an unacceptable loss.
Isaiah Harms
Troll Legion
Unspoken Alliance.
#316 - 2013-04-09 04:02:30 UTC
Dear folks.

Think outside the box here:

What do you have when an Amarr battleship has a HUGE drone bay. A done damage bonus, a ton of armor, long range neutralizers and 5 TORPEDO launchers?

A big golden brick that's neutralizer proof and meaner than any Tech 1 BS on the field.

Maximus Andendare
Rote Kapelle
#317 - 2013-04-09 04:12:03 UTC
Joelleaveek wrote:
I really think the drone bonused Amarr battleship should be a new hull with a tracking disruption bonus.
That would be a "disruption" bonus. Apparently neuting doesn't count as ewar/disruption... /shrug

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

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Maximus Andendare
Rote Kapelle
#318 - 2013-04-09 04:12:43 UTC
Isaiah Harms wrote:
Dear folks.

Think outside the box here:

What do you have when an Amarr battleship has a HUGE drone bay. A done damage bonus, a ton of armor, long range neutralizers and 5 TORPEDO launchers?

A big golden brick that's neutralizer proof and meaner than any Tech 1 BS on the field.

A better Dominix??

Enter grid and you're already dead, destined to be reborn and fight another day.

>> Play Eve Online FREE! Join today for exclusive bonuses! <<

Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#319 - 2013-04-09 04:36:59 UTC  |  Edited by: NinjaStyle
Tachyon Beams will still not be viable on the Apoc if you want a Prop mod on it (even just 1 prop mod) and this is with Reactor control unit on it allready just to fit the Tachyons.

Edit: In fact there still wont be a BS that can fit Tachyons after this and don't even dream about prop mods after trying to fit Tachyons... you need a Reactor control even on the Abaddon.

Please look into this! (don't know if your just not surposed to be able to fit the Tachyons or what but this just seems wrong)
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#320 - 2013-04-09 04:55:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Georgina Parmala
I feel like if the new geddon is to follow the line of Arbitrator/Prophecy, it should be a 6H 4M 8L slot layout.

It would give it more room to fit tank, since it's supposed to be a front line combat ship. While still having room to focus on drone damage over weapons. It would also be limiting its max neut throughput, making it step less on the toes of the Bhaal while keeping its new range niche.

Though on some level, I expected that the Abaddon would be the Battleship Prophecy followup. While Or the Geddon kept the lasers with a rate of fire bonus and replaced the cap use bonus with drone damage. But that would make for some ridiculous damage potential.

The Apoc feels like it needs more power grid. An Oracle can fit a full rack of T2 Tachyons with 233 power to spare - plenty to fit its 10mn prop mod and an assortment of other modules. The Apoc, even after the +500 grid will be 3450 power short just to fit just the full rack of T2 Tach. The change barely allows you to fit a no-prop paper Apoc with T2 Tachyons - after you put a T2 reactor control in a low slot. You shouldn't need two power rigs just to fit the dedicated sniper battleship for sniping. Especially when a battlecruiser already fits them just fine, with a damage bonus. Though I guess with range and tracking being the bonuses, one could argue the Apoc is meant as a Pulse platform and is not meant to actually fit beams at all.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members