EVE General Discussion

I can't believe they dropped the ban hammer on that! What an awesome idea. Its a lot of finicky little moving around to get right and really just like the OV change for BC's a couple of weeks ago. Go figure.

Anyway thanks for the explanation G

It use to be illegal(or at least a very very grey area), but I have a feeling they didn't have a good way to enforce it so they dropped it.

Oddly enough, this happens often in highsec, lowsec and nullsec. Generally wormholer's don't have to do that, they just need to get far enough away from d-scan, but it does happen there from time to time also.

It is a cheap tactic, it has no counter, and there is no real method of identifying it, unless you happen to know All of the Out-Of-Corp alts they fly, and where they are. We all pretty much agree it is a cheap tactic.

Allot of people do it though. See a war target on gate, other person goes after it, 5 seconds later, 15 other people login at the same time and crash the gate. No scout could have told you or warned you otherwise, no locator agent could have identified who the enemy was and where they are (I do not see you running 30 different locator agents just to identify where the group is, then planning your route). Its incredibly difficult to counter-gank that, because they themselves have alts in the surrounding systems, all unaffiliated, all unknown, all 1 to 3 days old. If they see a fleet, they don't log in. Now while some may say "Well they should have known it was bait", sure, but an intelligent person could have scouted ahead, ran d-scans, launched probes, etc. They could have gained "intel". There is no intel to gain in this situation.

To explain it in an even worse way, there is no wartargets in system, just 1 character, unaffiliated with any corporation you know of. (most in newb corps). You scout it, nothing, you scout every system in 5 jumps, nothing, you jump your "main guy" in, warp, jump to the next system (which is empty) and within 5 seconds, 15 targets warp in on gate. No amount of probing, intelligence, scouting, decloaking or the other, could have given you even the smallest inkling that such a thing was about to occur.

There is no "Honor" about this tactic. Spamming people's names on a forum won't do a damn thing, cause in the end, all they care about is the free loot, killboard, and that they ruined someone's day.

Is there a counter? No.

Is there any recourse? No. It is a complete surprise.

Now surprises are fine, but this one is undetectable in anyway, shape or form.

The advice by people who encounter this.... they say avoid these systems, and proceed to give a list. That helps little as the camp generally just moves over, especially if they have a target rich environment. They have total control over engagement, and there is no "counter", even if you launch scouts at every entry point, exit point, for 10 systems in a circle. It does nothing.

The issue with this, is that there is really no method of enforcing it as a illegal activity, except for registering the login times of accounts, with the registration of kills within a 1 to 2 minute timespan, followed by a petition from the victiim. This would cause one HUGE backlog in the GM's service load trying to process hundreds of death petitions due to login schemes a day (Hell probably an hour), as well as massive amounts of time investigating the cause, tracking down the accounts, and identifying whether the gank was caused by the logon trap, or stupidity on the petitioner, and if it was due to the trap, who to warn, and who to punish.

Its more than no local. Its no D-scan, no probes, no scouts, no intel, no checking dock's, no checking other systems.... we all know the arguments already. If I am going to get jumped, I want it to be based on gameplay, my own mistakes, or an actual engagement. Not because I did not happen to know one of the guy's out of corp alts, and that they have been waiting logged off for the past 20 minutes on a gate for me to cross through. Waiting a system or 2 beyond while in game, and they scout me, find me, catch me.. blow me up. I'm fine with that.

Them jump bridging ahead of me to catch me while I'm trying to exit.. fine with that too (hell had that happen, had a fleet of 30 trying to escape nullsec, and the nullsec corp jump bridged ahead, and got a good battle going).

This logoffski stuff cannot even be identified as a scam, or good gameplay. Heck its not even bad gameplay, and no fault can be put on the "prey" no matter what they did to try to counteract the mechanic abuse.

It is mechanic abuse.

No counter? So you don't have them on watch list, didn't see 10 people log on move a few systems over and log off again?
And knowing full well they do this, you will continue to engage bait ships in predictable systems?

It is the prey's fault. They got caught with their pants down in a predictable system the logoffski crowd previously set up in. Then they let themselves get tackled in the system off a gate and/or aggressed the bait ship.

They might be invisible, but they're also immobile. Even when aggressing a bait ship the game provides you ways to disengage, shake the tackle and leave the system before the bad guys that just spammed the right side of your screen with logins actually show up.

One of the oldest tactics in Eve. To say this is not Eve like, is rather funny tbh.

Killmails are notoriously prone to being cocked up ...erhem... malformed for any number of reasons.

That is one bad excuse because your applying this to war targets. It is not solely a highsec issue (applies to lowsec and nullsec and wormholes (aka: everywhere)) I doubt you can put every character you believe to be in your travel route on your watch list, war target or not and expect what you just said to hold any water.

Look.. 4 people just logged off.. It must be a trap!!! Where and when, I have no clue, whose is watching, I have no clue either, I'll send my scouts out who will do me no good, and I'll bring an army to catch the people who won't log back on...

Good grief....

A logonski trap is the least (think for a sec, yes it is something I don't even think about) of my worries in low or null.

Its a fun little gimmick that's kind of a pain in the ass to set up and not guaranteed to work anyway, a million little variables could booger it up. Not the lest of which being there is no single place that I spend time in on a regular basis. Theres just no way for anyone to know where exactly to set this kind of trap.

This is only a fearful issue for the same conflict averse crowd who think there should be an opt out option for player aggression.

You want logging in to be bannable?