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Death By Design 305
2manno Asp Death By Design Likes received: 305	#121 - 2013-03-12 18:45:45 UTC \| Edited by: 2manno Asp sorry dp.

Warde Guildencrantz

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,220

#122 - 2013-03-12 19:08:19 UTC

Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:

you are trying to fit a shield tank and a light missile rack?

Thats like saying you want a wolf to have a full armour tank when it's got arty on it.

LML's fit fine with mid slots full of useful things as long as you drop the tank.

Choices choices choices.

I too would like a tanked, mwd hookbill with td/web/scram and stick LML's on it. No one would fly anything else :P

No no, getting a tank on it isn't an issue (MWD fits shouldn't need one as expected), just the fact you need a bunch of fitting mods for a BCU to fit on the ship with LML is kind of annoying when all the other ships can get at least 1 damage mod on a long range fit.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Xuahn

McDermott Industries

Likes received: 11

#123 - 2013-03-12 19:17:02 UTC | Edited by: Xuahn

Just to try and disprove the "bunch of fitting mods" argument ill grab the first fit off of 2manno Asp's kill board

https://zkillboard.com/detail/29124135/

dual prop lml with bcu and no fitting mods Im sure that could be adjusted for tech2 goodness (maybe have to lose the dual prop)

You could probably do close to the same thing with a comet

https://zkillboard.com/detail/28669742/

but you again have no tank, and your range is now where near as good, nor is your actual applied dps(looks better on paper i think). Also take into consideration what that single td on the hookbill would do to the tracking/range of this comet

Both these fits have 1 thing in common, if they get caught they are dead.

I love the hookbill(hell i don't even fly it) its a bad ass little ship. In no way what so ever does it need a buff, Don't really think it needed a nerf either but from what I can tell the changes to it won't be that big a deal.

X Gallentius

Black Eagle1

Likes received: 2,982

#124 - 2013-03-12 19:45:09 UTC | Edited by: X Gallentius

Xuahn wrote:

https://zkillboard.com/detail/28669742/

but you again have no tank, and your range is now where near as good, nor is your actual applied dps(looks better on paper i think). Also take into consideration what that single td on the hookbill would do to the tracking/range of this comet

Both these fits have 1 thing in common, if they get caught they are dead.

I love the hookbill(hell i don't even fly it) its a bad ass little ship. In no way what so ever does it need a buff, Don't really think it needed a nerf either but from what I can tell the changes to it won't be that big a deal.

You can fit a shield tank on the nano 150mm rail comet (at the expense of the td). But in any case, that hookbill already has superior range control ability with the dual prop + web/scram + td. So it's really tough to actually "catch" that hookbill in the first place (it's not automatically dead if caught like that comet). And the hookbill wil apply same dps at all ranges (unlike the comet which cannot apply dps at point blank range).

2manno Asp

Death By Design

Likes received: 305

#125 - 2013-03-12 19:46:59 UTC | Edited by: 2manno Asp

Xuahn wrote:

Actually the dp Hooker isn't usually dead if it gets caught by 1 frigate. That's the point of it really, although I often push it's limits too far.

Anyway, to fit T2 missles you don't necessarily have to have tons of fitting mods. Consider a version of the Dual Damp Hooker.

[Caldari Navy Hookbill, Rudex v2]
Internal Force Field Array I
Co-Processor I

Gistii B-Type 1MN Microwarpdrive
Micro Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 100
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Warp Disruptor II

Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile

Small Warhead Flare Catalyst I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Polycarbon Engine Housing I

One co-proc 1 and way better than the Comet in this instance.


Xuahn McDermott Industries Likes received: 11	#126 - 2013-03-12 19:49:03 UTC True. Just kinda makes the point i was trying to make, the hookbill was/is fine no idea what ppl are complaining about it. Thanks for letting me "borrow" your kill board X Gall

Boris Amarr

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 81

#127 - 2013-03-12 20:09:16 UTC | Edited by: Boris Amarr

CCP Fozzie wrote:

IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER:
Fittings: 50 (+3) PWG, 125 (+10) CPU

It is great changes! PWG is unnecessary for IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER but CPU increasing will allow to use Damage Control T2 instead of expensive Internal Force Field Array I.

Why IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER is slowest from all Navy frigates. May be it should have more Max Velocity?

Additional question. When are you going re-balance Nave Cruisers? Now Omen Navy Issue is sad in comparison with Omen but cost much more.


X Gallentius Black Eagle1 Likes received: 2,982	#128 - 2013-03-12 21:15:02 UTC 1 Boris Amarr wrote: Why IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER is slowest from all Navy frigates. May be it should have more Max Velocity? Has massive number of low slots for prop mods and excellent damage projection with short range weapons out to 25 km.

Grunnax Aurelius

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 300

#129 - 2013-03-12 23:07:31 UTC

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Hannott Thanos wrote:

CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage

Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%.

The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342042&find=unread

PIE Inc. Khimi Harar 917
Veshta Yoshida PIE Inc. Khimi Harar Likes received: 917	#130 - 2013-03-12 23:32:22 UTC 1 Hooks with more damage .. I shudder at the thought! It trades 25-30% dps (comparatively) for absolute and complete control over any and all fights it engages in .. five mids on a frigate is staggeringly HUGE.

In Wreck we thrust 554
Bouh Revetoile In Wreck we thrust Likes received: 554	#131 - 2013-03-12 23:49:15 UTC 1 Grunnax Aurelius wrote: The Hookbill is lacking in DPS as it is, 25% more damage is welcome from me, Hookbill can only get up to 134 DPS currently that is lame, change the bonus to 125% and you get around 170 DPS, thats alot more apealing compared to the DPS the other 3 can pump out. missile dps != turret dps...

Cearain

Plus 10 NV

Likes received: 1,515

#132 - 2013-03-12 23:51:58 UTC

Hookbill is very strong. I used to fly them and rarely got fights. No one wants to jump in a plex with a hookbill. This will likely be the problem the condor will face, as well.

After ccp removes off grid boosting (and perhaps sobers the condors speed and agility) the kiting ships won't be quite so overpowered and the ships might see more fights. But for now they are best avoided.

The firetail, on the other hand, should see allot more action and is looking very good.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ava Starfire

Khushakor Clan

Likes received: 1,652

#133 - 2013-03-13 01:36:23 UTC

X Gallentius wrote:

Lord Rixus wrote:

I like all the changes except for slowing down the hookbill... its already the slowest frigate you'll actually find on the field... why slow it down more?

Because of 5 midslots.

5 mids is insanely powerful. Low slots do not stack 1:1 as far as power creep and balance goes with mids, and it has easily been the best of the empire faction frigs since the rocket changes. The ability to carry MSE, web, scram, TD, and AB, in addition to its weapons which work fine and dandy at any range, is really, REALLY difficult to beat.

The firetail changes look great; I have never really tried to use it, because, frankly, it's awful. I am looking forward to having a reason to undock in it.

The comet could do with more bandwidth, I think, to bring it in line with others? Though 5 lights and it is dangerously close to simply being a better ishkur (which it almost is already)

The slicer feels fine as it is, but I dont know, ive never flown one, and usually fight them in a Wolf; not the best way to judge them, watching them explode in 3 seconds.

Ava

"There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception." -Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North"

Warde Guildencrantz

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,220

#134 - 2013-03-13 03:45:24 UTC | Edited by: Warde Guildencrantz

Xuahn wrote:

as I said, it's simply hard to get a BCU, whereas all other boats can fairly easily fit a single damage mod in the lows even with long range weapons (and not downgraded guns either)

I know it can be fit reasonably without damage mods with light missiles, but that's not the point.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Perkone Caldari State 6
Vimple Perkone Caldari State Likes received: 6	#135 - 2013-03-13 04:08:58 UTC 1 The extra 25% damage at lvl 5 for the firetail may make it not so useless, granted it still needs a bit more base speed. It is after all just a sick looking rifter, for like 10x the price

Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 1,052
ChromeStriker Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic Likes received: 1,052	#136 - 2013-03-13 08:44:22 UTC \| Edited by: ChromeStriker Vimple wrote: The extra 25% damage at lvl 5 for the firetail may make it not so useless, granted it still needs a bit more base speed. It is after all just a sick looking rifter, for like 10x the price More dmg, more speed, more hp, better fitting....? edit: ... and damn sexy No Worries

Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 46
Lidia Caderu Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective Likes received: 46	#137 - 2013-03-13 09:53:35 UTC \| Edited by: Lidia Caderu Do Navy comet really need drones? Its a fast ship, and you dont have time to manage drones in combat. So i think its better to remove them at all or give 25/25 bandwidth/dronehold to be better with drones.

pyronatic

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 28

#138 - 2013-03-13 10:49:51 UTC

As a Gallente Militia Pilot, There's 2 Stats I think that should be changed or looked at again. These Changes are based off by comparing the Tristan to the Comet, Since the Tristan is the tech 1 Variant of the Comet. The targeting range, The Tristan has a base range of 40 km and the Comet has 37.5 km, So for a kiting purpose with drones a Tristan beats the Comet. I think the comet should have at least an equal base range. The second is the drone capacity the Tristan gets a 40 m3 drone bay and the Comet has a 30 m3 drone bay, also the Tristan can launch 5 drones compared to the Comets 3 so its much easier for the Tristan to eliminate the Comet's drones from the fight. I think by giving the Comet 2 more light drones in it's drone bay would make the Comet more appealing to fly than a Tristan. These are just my thought's on the Comet.

"Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30"

"Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37.5km (+5) / 650 (+30) / 5 (+1)"

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#139 - 2013-03-13 11:33:17 UTC | Edited by: Kagura Nikon

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Kagura Nikon wrote:

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

T1 BCs now have 17 slots, across the board. Command ships have 17, (except the Minmatar ones which have 18,) as well. Personally, I think 17 slots across the board is more than sufficient.

Command ships are booster specialists which can double as heavy combat boats. Boosting is their primary role, their potential firepower and tank is a bonus of their T2 nature. Giving them exceptional tanking bonuses is unwarranted.

There is no sense on having 2 ships for each race focused on fleet bonus if fleet bonus is their role. Specially considering that OGB will be gone in future. Command ships NEED to be stronger, specially, more resilient so they can survive longer in the battlefield.

Its simply stupid to have 2 variants of a ship that both do exaclty same thign because only the booster part is the important one. Currently we even have 1 comamdn ship on each lien that is NOT focused on boosters (not more than BC are) and even those are BARELY stronger than a t1 BC. In fact currently a ferox will have a good chance to defeat a nighthawk.. and that is plain stupid.

I did not say that they don't need to survive. I said exceptional tanking bonuses were not needed. The T2 resist profile is nails already. HICs need to stick around in a heavy firefight just as much, yet they don't get ludicrously op tanks. I would support changing the current tanking bonuses each Command ship gets for a resist bonus, the same as HICs get, on that principle, but I would not support increasingly something like local tank boosts of 10%/level.

Those sorts of bonuses would be too easy to exploit in solo or small gang work as well as in PvE. As an example; how nails is a Sleipnir already as a solo boat? Do you think it needs an additional buff to tanking?

The rebalance is also supposed to remove the split between field and fleet ships. The key difference will be their weapons. And your right, the weapon choice makes little difference whne most of your high slots are links and your in a decent sized fleet. But they do make a difference when.you use the ship for fighting, which is its secondary use. I said its primary role is boosting, I never said it was its sole role. But as it specialises in that role, I don't see why it should also gain bonuses to a secondary role while the principle of T2 is to specialise in a single role.

The forthcoming template will have boosting bonuses, tanking bonuses (that are comparable to their T1 counterparts,) and double damage/weapon bonuses. I really don't see a need for even higher tanking bonuses on top of the T2 resist profile.

BC are also made for fleet bonuses, but you do not even see CCP even blink about that when balancing the ships.

Also when you say resistances.. you thinking on the field or the fleet ones? They have different resist bonuses. If both are set as the current higher ones that I would agree with you, but I feel it will be the opposite.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

Hannott Thanos

Squadron 15

Likes received: 868

#140 - 2013-03-13 11:35:41 UTC

Grunnax Aurelius wrote:

Hakan MacTrew wrote:

Hannott Thanos wrote:

CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage

Except this will result in 125% damage bonus to kinetic damage at level 5 instead of the current 100%.

Yeah, I forgot how to math.

Hannott Thanos wrote:

CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+33% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage

actually 33,3 repeating

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

_myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Death By Design

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

McDermott Industries

Black Eagle1

Viziam

Amarr Empire

State War Academy

Caldari State

PIE Inc.

Khimi Harar

In Wreck we thrust

Plus 10 NV

Khushakor Clan

Perkone

Caldari State

Sebiestor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Brave Newbies Inc.

Brave Collective

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Squadron 15