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[Odyssey] Faction Navy Frigates

First post
Author
Zelarrs Elkoth
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#81 - 2013-03-12 03:27:17 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:
Lili Lu wrote:
Tell me that of all those frigs in the OP the Hookbill isn't prefered. Hey Fozzie, do you have some usage statistics like you did for tier 2 BCs? I'm betting it's currently Hookbill -> Slicer -> the other two. Straight

edit - and i'm tired of caldari centric players whining about their ships, when the usage statistics suggest the opposite relative worth of them.


Well, let me tell you that in FW (where faction frigates matter), the Hookbill is actually the one of the bunch I see the least.

The faction frigs I mostly encounter atm are:

Slicer > Comet > Firetail > Hookbill



I see plenty of Hookbills and Comets.

I've about stopped flying the slicer even though it was my favorite frigate. Dies to Condors and Slashers which is very frustrating for a Faction ship.

Usually can take down a Firetail, so that buff is probably warranted. I suspect though that after these changes I will rarely fly slicer again.

If you gave it a third Mid-though it would be a useful ship. Either take the utility high or one of the lows. (I'd miss the low more than the high.)

Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Captain, Head of Diplomacy, Recruiting Officer Contact on channel: "PIE Public" "I walk the razor's edge of embracing the future while protecting what we value of the past."

Galenwade
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2013-03-12 04:26:23 UTC
SmarncaV2 wrote:
When are you going to start changing T2 cruisers, Faction cruisers?

How about T2 bc?

Ppl are also complaining about moon goo wich is currently broken how about that?

We've seen mainly frigate changes in the past. I have news for you.

We don't all fly frigs.

Also offgrid boosting a lot of ppl have been complaining about that too or is it too hard?

EDIT: How about pirate frigates if u like frigs that much? Worm, Succubus, Cruor?


I would rather them work from the bottom up and not screw it up .
Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2013-03-12 06:05:50 UTC
it's a bit out of topic, but can you add faction destroyer and faction battlecruiser?

destroyer and battlecruiser have less T2 compare to other subcap ship too.
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#84 - 2013-03-12 06:19:44 UTC
Roseline Penshar wrote:
it's a bit out of topic, but can you add faction destroyer and faction battlecruiser?

destroyer and battlecruiser have less T2 compare to other subcap ship too.

There is no room for those. What role would they fill? We don't need a 2000 dps Navy Brutix

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2013-03-12 07:18:34 UTC
dunno maybe something that's not using T1 part, like in frigate navy
Qaidan Alenko
Eezo-Lution Inc.
#86 - 2013-03-12 07:38:45 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Roseline Penshar wrote:
it's a bit out of topic, but can you add faction destroyer and faction battlecruiser?

destroyer and battlecruiser have less T2 compare to other subcap ship too.

There is no room for those. What role would they fill? We don't need a 2000 dps Navy Brutix

Faction BC... Logi booster: Give em a role bonus to boost logi in gang.
Go ahead... Get your Wham on!!!
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2013-03-12 08:36:49 UTC
Interesting quite subtle changes.

With the armour plate mass changes I think that makes my 200mm plate Comet a touch faster than a shield Hookbill, hitpoint buff makes it tougher and half the ones I fight have 400mm plate dual webs anyway so they will probably not complain.

Firetail could be really strong now, especially brawling it should push past 200dps brawling with a MSE and the CPU should help exchange Meta DCU's for T2.

It is the cap changes on the Comet and Slicer that should make the difference and that’s harder to judge without the stats in EFT.

I this for summer or another point release?

Faction Cruiser thread please please please.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-03-12 09:57:08 UTC
Just a minor thing but, why not change the description to read, 10% bonus to missile damage and a 10% bonus to kinetic charge damage"

Bit simpler to read.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-03-12 09:58:08 UTC
While your at it, make navy cruisers not be horrible

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.

Deerin
East Trading Co Ltd
#90 - 2013-03-12 10:16:35 UTC
It may be off topic but I believe this should be also part of this conversation.

Can you seperate the web/scram boost of Minmatar boosters?.

I mean web is minmatar recon bonus so loki/claymore should give bonus to web range, while warp disrupting range should be governed by proteus/eos.

Right now the point/web range boost is more or less the only bonus in game which cannot be duplicated by any other means (save for buying expensive faction/deadspace mods for individual ships). Seperating them would be a good start towards rebalancing OGB's, which is a very critical factor when balancing kiting missile setups.

In fact, you could just get rid of point/web range bonus altogether :P But it wouldn't be an elegant solution.

Further more reducing effectivenes of ALL gang links and increasing the bonuses on specialized ships would make using cross-faction modules more problematic. If you want specialized minmatar bonuses, you shouldn't really get nearly same performance for non-minmatar links.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#91 - 2013-03-12 10:30:33 UTC
Kaal Redrum wrote:
[...]
The Firetail as it stands, even buffed is just not unique enough - the Jaguar, Slasher and Rifter are far too similar to it, and it adds nothing in flavour over the other 3 Navy Frigs (apart from its supremely unique design)

Use this chance - keep up the great rebalance effort - and make the Firetail a fun rocket-LML boat


I fully support this! Actually it turned out that the breacher, even though having a bonus to shieldboost, is a very viable armortanker with the usual tackle + sd / td (got 4 slots).

So I'd personally love to fight a firetail that basically does the same as an armorbreacher, just that it was designed for it. And it got the same slot layout. So please superawesome missile boat instead of another projectilefrig that has the same signature attributes like 4 other hulls.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2013-03-12 10:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
In general terms, I like it. But need to test a bit to see how hard/easy is to fit those things. I am in favor of navy ships never beign something HARD to fit .

The rocket firetail Idea MIGHT not be bad. But need careful study. Rockets are harder to balance than guns on very fast movign frigates.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#93 - 2013-03-12 10:35:28 UTC
Saul Hyperion wrote:
Any chance of getting the old Comet skin back? The new one is a travesty compared to the old blingy police car.


Remember people whining about the vaga!

I'm sure capsuleers of new eden can get their Policecar back aswell!
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#94 - 2013-03-12 10:36:09 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Just a minor thing but, why not change the description to read, 10% bonus to missile damage and a 10% bonus to kinetic charge damage"

Bit simpler to read.

Because 2 x 50% bonuses equate to a 125% bonus instead of a 100% bonus. That is how that description would be understood.

20% to kinetic and 10% to em, thermal and explosive reads fine.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2013-03-12 10:51:18 UTC
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
SmarncaV2 wrote:


How about T2 bc?



Based upon and "oldish" devblobg, command ships should be rebalanced for this summer xpack. Going to be interesting to see what they do with them all. As it currently stands t1 BCs have more total slots than the commands (excluding sleipnir and claymore), which honestly makes 100% no sense.



It shoudl be made the opposite. Make command ships have 1 more slot than the T1 ones. OR make the command ships have STRONGER bonuses. Like (just theoretical example.. not sconsiderign balance). change the absolution damage bonus to 7.5%. THe sleipnir boost bonus to 10%, the Astarte repair bonus to 10%.


Command ships configured to a combat role should be able to EASILY defeat anything using medium sized guns on a brute force competition. They take alot to train and cost a LOT. They need to be more than 10% stronger than a t1 BC. 2 Command ships should defeat 3 BC as a baseline.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Ryan Rs
Perkone
Caldari State
#96 - 2013-03-12 11:11:09 UTC
Comet needs to make siren sounds play on your target's computer when you yellow-boxed them. Regardless of their sound settings.
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
SCRUBS.
#97 - 2013-03-12 11:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
My proposed skill bonuses

IMPERIAL NAVY SLICER:
Amarr Frigate bonuses:
+25% to small energy turret damage
Role bonus:
+50% to small energy turret optimal range


CALDARI NAVY HOOKBILL:
Caldari Frigate bonuses:
+10% to light missile and rocket damage
+10% to missile velocity
Role Bonus:
+50% to light missile and rocket kinetic damage


FEDERATION NAVY COMET:
Gallente Frigate bonuses:
+20% to small hybrid turret damage
Role bonus:
+37,5% to hybrid turret tracking


REPUBLIC FLEET FIRETAIL:
Minmatar Frigate skill bonuses:
+25% to small projectile turret damage
Role bonus:
+37.5% to small projectile turret tracking

Same end result basically, but it looks cleaner and gives an edge over the regular frigates at lower levels

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
#98 - 2013-03-12 11:15:57 UTC
I find these changes refreshing.

I want to take a different tact on my comments...

I am still new enough at the game that having a fun ship to fly when I am not skilled to "5's" is important and these are the special "shiny" ships that newbies can get into almost as soon as they have the isk.

What AF's, etc are great to compare them too, for many players the AFs are weeks to months away.

Testing these ships with a toon that is all "3's" is important. This is the first real step up that many of the new players have.

While experienced players want to look at them with max skills, many of them are actually flown by newer players that don't have those skills and can't use some of the modules that make many of the fits that are discussed in the thread possible.

Yes - unbalancing the game with these ships at max skils is bad, but doing things to these ships that make them less fun at low skill levels is also bad.

The firetail is one of the ships that newbies like because they can out run most rats without an AB or a MWD. Taking that speed away takes a unique mechanic out of the game for newer players.

The role bonuses are nice because if you can fly it, you get it. For these ships specifically - I would rather see more of the bonus in the role bonus than in skill bonuses - that leaves more of the uniqueness to the ship and not the skills over time and reduces the tendency for the ship to be over powered when the skills are max'ed.

And NO they are not noobie ships, NO they are not cheap, but young, inexperienced pilots love to talk about having one of these and flying it. In their hands in many cases they are expensive targets, which is fine.

I don't know how many chats I have had where one of the new toons has said "That's my new Navy Slicer", "That was my new Navy Slicer" - what ever changes are made should not take away from the desire of new toons to fly these ships.
Hakan MacTrew
MUTED VOID
#99 - 2013-03-12 11:58:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:
SmarncaV2 wrote:


How about T2 bc?



Based upon and "oldish" devblobg, command ships should be rebalanced for this summer xpack. Going to be interesting to see what they do with them all. As it currently stands t1 BCs have more total slots than the commands (excluding sleipnir and claymore), which honestly makes 100% no sense.



It shoudl be made the opposite. Make command ships have 1 more slot than the T1 ones. OR make the command ships have STRONGER bonuses. Like (just theoretical example.. not sconsiderign balance). change the absolution damage bonus to 7.5%. THe sleipnir boost bonus to 10%, the Astarte repair bonus to 10%.


Command ships configured to a combat role should be able to EASILY defeat anything using medium sized guns on a brute force competition. They take alot to train and cost a LOT. They need to be more than 10% stronger than a t1 BC. 2 Command ships should defeat 3 BC as a baseline.

T1 BCs now have 17 slots, across the board. Command ships have 17, (except the Minmatar ones which have 18,) as well. Personally, I think 17 slots across the board is more than sufficient.

Command ships are booster specialists which can double as heavy combat boats. Boosting is their primary role, their potential firepower and tank is a bonus of their T2 nature. Giving them exceptional tanking bonuses is unwarranted.
HazeInADaze
Safari Hunt Club
#100 - 2013-03-12 12:02:09 UTC
Mammal Tafren wrote:
i don't care if or how you buff the Comet, but give us back our cop car. Space Camo is lame and I want my blue light back.


Please bring back the old paint. It was such a cool looking ship before someone threw shades of green crap all over it.