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Don't you think these very forums prove it ?

I really don't see a reason why EHP needs to be cut back if CCP is changing the log off timer mechanic. You could up a supercaps EHP to 100 million or more and if it can't go anywhere it doesn't really matter does it? The shield tanked supercaps are in need of some EHP increases to be very honest. Also another point to make, with the scale of large engagements in today's EVE and the log of timer change an EHP increase for all supercaps would not be unreasonable. The reality as it is, is supercaps die pretty quick in most large scale fights and a medium sized gang can drain a supercaps capacitor to 0 in 1 to 2 minutes. If you honestly don't believe that got to youtube.com and search EVE super capital kills and educate yourself or just go to EVE Fitting Tool and see the numbers for yourself.

Drone bays on supercarriers need to be scaled back, I agree with that and I am a Nyx pilot. However what CCP is presenting I don't agree with. Supercarriers still need to have some flexibility in dealing with subcapital ships, particularly tacklers like dictors and HICs. I like the Idea of giving supercarriers and carriers 2 drone bays, 1 coded for fighters or bombers and 1 coded for regular drones, this was an idea CCP had a few years ago but they had some coding issues and gave up. I believe a drone bay for supercarriers large enough to fit 20 fighters AND 20 bombers plus a small drone bay 1000 m3 or 2000 m3 for smaller drones would be awesome. I think 1000 m3 is a bit on the "to limiting" side but it is acceptable. I could also agree with giving supercarriers a drone bay large enough to fit only 25 bombers OR 25 fighters along with a 2000 to 3000 M3 smaller drone bay, to give supercarriers some flexibility with heavy drones. Carrier drone bays should be similar, say enough to fit 15 fighters and a smaller drone bay, say 3000 M3 to 5000 M3. This would allow carrier to be much more versatile with drones in comparison to supercarriers.

Dreads need an enhancement to their ability to tank while in siege. I believe a resistance bonus when the siege cycle is active would be in line. This could be geared to give them the EHP to absorb a single titan doomsday, last a bit longer to vast amounts of fighter bombers, and more importantly tank 2 to 3 supercarriers. So yes I am purposing that dreads should be able to achieve a 25k to 35k DPS tank in siege depending on their fitting. However this would not make them indestructible to subcapital gangs because energy neutralizing. And before the posts start about "You can do that with a dread now if you fit x-type, officer and take pills", that is unreasonable to ask of a ship worth 1.5 billion isk. I believe dreads should have a small drone bay, say 50 M3. The siege timer change and the increased DPS is needed and fair.

Titans need a small drone bay, enough to be able to store ECM drones and light drones. There is no reason to not allow this.

Welcome to PVP, may I take you number?

Its been a hard fact for many years that armor tanked races such as gallente and amarr have been better in PvP then the other two. Shield is better for PvE and works for PvP in SOME cases. All of this you should of learned from the first few days of joining a PvP alliance.

this is a capital thread.
i was talking caps.

I'll see if I can recap without this thing eating the post...again....

Regarding SuperCarrier Drone bays; It was mentioned just above that there needs to be a separate drone bay and Fighter bay (including separate Drone bandwidth and Fighter (Bomber) bandwidth...call it communications relays). I fully agree. I can't say how big a fighter bay should be, and how many waves of bombers/fighters a SC needs, I can say that any "carrier" needs to be able to field drones. A drone bay the size of a Dominix is not too much to ask for these ship types, and I'm sure others would say even that is too small. At the same time, we want to make sure we don't see a hornet's nest explode every time a small ship approaches a supercarrier. DRONE bandwidth should be limited to 125 mbit/s for a supercarrier, but let them have a damage bonus to drones (every race's Super carrier...they're all carriers!...maybe make it a racial bonus?). The DPS equivalent of 10 Heavy drones on a tackling Hictor will give the SC some leeway in not being pinned down by a single player for 23 hours. At the same time, it makes sure that the drone bay is not the "damage dealer" for that supercarrier. Fighter (Bombers) will retain their role in anti capital DPS, there will still be viable PvE options for (Super)carriers. Titans and Dreads need their drone bays as well and for the same reasons.

Regarding other changes; Disallowing SuperCarriers and Titans in Low-sec space is a stellar idea. This immediately removes the threat of a "hot drop" for those who are not associated with a large corp/alliance and don't have access to their own capital armadas. Low sec will be more open to those who choose to play there.

Creating a "spooling" mechanism for Cyno fields is another wonderful idea. Having several different cynos (a regular one for capitals, a new one specifically for supercapitals, the black ops one for blops gangs) each with a specific "spooling" rate (the faster the spool, the sooner ships can jump through and the larger the ship that can jump at a time) allows for more interesting fleet choices. This also opens up a reason to fit a cyno gen on a recon ship, change that bonus to "X% faster cyno spool per level."

Players are looking for a game where they are free to make choices, free to engage or disengage (depending on the situation ) and where the arbitrary limitations of systems MAKE SENSE and contribute to the decision making process in a meaningful way. Hacking away at SuperCapitals EHP (without a good reason) makes no sense and doesn't add meaning with the current context of the game and the other changes proposed (no logofski FTW). Hacking a dronebay off of a very expensive (ISK and skillwise) ship (without a good reason) makes no sense and doesn't add meaning.

I hope this finds receptive eyes and that the Dev's continue their (apparent) interest in what the community is hoping for and talking about.

Ced

Just going to restate it since it hasnt been said recently

Currently the most broken part of the game is Titan's being used to take out sub-capital fleets with their guns - not thier DD.

The current tactic is - go in with subcap fleet to bait out hostile subcap fleet, get them engaged / bubbled then drop in titans and support supercarriers, in most cases these support supercarriers do not even drop drones, they are boxed alts that bounce cap / rep and remote sensor boost and tracking enhance the titans. The Titans DD the FCs, Command Ships, and Logi. The titans then use their guns to kill the remaining fleet, and will usually alpha strike their target anyway, even if the logi was alive.

With the proposed changes the supercarriers will still support the titans in the same way, the titans will not be able to DD the support but they will be able to buffed and use their guns on sub-capitals.

Look at it this way - Dreads, Supercarriers, and Titans are the only DPS capitals.

Currently the Dread is much lower HP, Must siege to signifigant dps, and is otherwise useless(out of siege dps is less than a battleship and cannot hit subcaps worth anything). (siege stops movement, reduces to 2 locked targets, makes immune to ewar, disallows rr / cap / remote anythingbuff, reduces tracking)

The dreadnaught is the only one of the above 3 that has to siege to DPS, and its already disadvantaged in hitpoints. I believe they all need to siege to to dps. This will reduce the ability for supercarrier blobs to RR dps. they already have enough hp if they cant last 5 minutes they deserve to die. I believe fleet positioning is a valid mechanic in any fight, and capitals unable to move in siege is a bit boring, so allow capitals to move on the field while in siege. I believe the drones on capitals will not be an issue if they cannot launch them while in siege, this will maintain the ability for recreational supercarriers ratting to be caught and killed.

1) Only allow fighterbombers in a siege mode on supercarriers
2) Change Titan damage bonuses to where they were before dominion, enable siege modules on titans
3) allow movement in siege, but still disallow warping
4) balance capital weapons so movement is not an issue with sieged ships
5) leave drone bays on supercapitals, titans, and dreads, disallow launching of drones in siege on all vessels.
6) maintain proposed DD nerf or remove DD completely. DD's have been subject of broken mechanics since they were introduced, stop beating around the bush and just axe the damned thing.

-GeeBee

The big difference is that the hurricane (since u mentioned it) needs to make sacrifices to do any of those things.
If u want to have a big tank u need to sacrifice offensive abilities/speed/range. If u want to form a fleet of only hurricanes (standard shieldbuffer, ac fit for example) u are weak against a number of fleetscomps (bombers, abaddons, drakes to name a few). The supers will never have to make those sacrifices and have no weakness at current state.

Edit: Also id like to see u kill a POS with your armor and shieldtanked hurricane with 1,5k ms speed, tia

I have a question for the the community, CCP, the Goon/TEST leadership, and Goon/TEST CSM's. I'm looking for a serious answer here in spite of the implied troll in my last line. So here goes:

Why should 20 billion isk worth of Hurricanes be the most versatile forces capable of dealing with support, BS fleets, capital fleets, supercapital fleets and sov warfare AND 20 billion isk worth of supercarrier be useful at killing only capitals and sov structures and only so when in larger numbers far surpassing 20 billion isk worth of ships on field AND they must be accompanied by yet another group of ships solely tasked with supporting them?

Dreads needs an EHP bost while in siege.

And there should be some seperate treads on the varius classes we discussion here as well.
Now its just a big mix of SCs here, titans there, and some dreads over there discussion.


Just cut the bomber DPS in half, so they do less dps than dreads,
4k with Bombers, (5k on the nyx). and bost the buffer on dreads, and we're getting closer to balance.

Stop posting goon