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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#1481 - 2011-10-11 21:14:13 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Velin Dhal wrote:
With an EHP buff to normal Carriers and Dreds, along with the right bonus' while in seige for Dreds, it would be easier to counter Super Carriers. They still obviously wouldn't stand head to head, but at least alliances that dont own large amounts of Supers could still compete. As seems to be the biggest issue people are having.

Why remove entire drone bays from all caps ?


Wait, they are removing the drone bays from carriers and capital industrial ships?

I would like to see a carrier / dread buff such that a carrier / dread with full low tank (mid for chimmy / phoenix / nid / nag) would be able to tank a DD.

Also, people should post with their mains.


Yeah sorry that was worded incorrectly on my part. Removing drone bays from supers and dreds. That should have been the way I phrased that.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1482 - 2011-10-11 21:14:42 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
The number of supercap pilots with incredibly unreliable connections amazes me. It's a mystery how you ever managed to amass the price of a super, what with your ISP kicking you off the server every 1000 seconds or so.


You think they got the ISK to buy a supercap through their in-game actions.

heh


SCs are not that expensive at all.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1483 - 2011-10-11 21:15:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Smoking Blunts
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.
they woudl still be useful, they wont do omfg damage anymore and you wont screw them being able to kill a tackling frig.
that would make more sence imo that what your doing now.
dreads become useful again instantly,
win win, just undo the last buff. give us back motherships

OMG when can i get a pic here
Doctor Ungabungas
Doomheim
#1484 - 2011-10-11 21:16:37 UTC
Aurora Egnald wrote:
Dont need to , thats why I have an alt.Posting under my alt does not take anyhting from what I have said.


Except your credibility.

It's mostly been people from the 'pet' (hate that term) and 'renter' alliances bitching, while the actual combat alliances have not only expected this for 6 months but are welcoming it.

Post with your main so that we can weigh up your opinion appropriately!
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1485 - 2011-10-11 21:17:26 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.
they woudl still be useful, they wont do omfg damage anymore and you wont screw them being able to kill a tackling frig.
that would make more senec imo that what your doing now.
dreads become useful again instantly,
win win, just undo the last buff. give us back motherships


Might make me but one if that happened. Only marginally better, still fun, and can triage.

I admit that being a SC pilot is about to get boring as ****.

Still, I would like that 5 minute timer on siege.
Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#1486 - 2011-10-11 21:18:47 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.
they woudl still be useful, they wont do omfg damage anymore and you wont screw them being able to kill a tackling frig.
that would make more sence imo that what your doing now.
dreads become useful again instantly,
win win, just undo the last buff. give us back motherships


Titans would have to lose the EHP bonus they got as well. To balance things out. Seem like a logical solution really.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1487 - 2011-10-11 21:19:26 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.
they woudl still be useful, they wont do omfg damage anymore and you wont screw them being able to kill a tackling frig.
that would make more senec imo that what your doing now.
dreads become useful again instantly,
win win, just undo the last buff. give us back motherships


Might make me but one if that happened. Only marginally better, still fun, and can triage.

I admit that being a SC pilot is about to get boring as ****.

Still, I would like that 5 minute timer on siege.


they could even buff teh old hp count by 20% say so they could survive 2 or 3 dd's. but there gonna make an awesom ship worthless, more worthless than it used to be.

OMG when can i get a pic here
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1488 - 2011-10-11 21:20:20 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.
they woudl still be useful, they wont do omfg damage anymore and you wont screw them being able to kill a tackling frig.
that would make more senec imo that what your doing now.
dreads become useful again instantly,
win win, just undo the last buff. give us back motherships


Might make me but one if that happened. Only marginally better, still fun, and can triage.

I admit that being a SC pilot is about to get boring as ****.

Still, I would like that 5 minute timer on siege.


they could even buff teh old hp count by 20% say so they could survive 2 or 3 dd's. but there gonna make an awesom ship worthless, more worthless than it used to be.


Sorry, I was assuming the titans would be nerfed / dd removed, my bad.
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#1489 - 2011-10-11 21:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
General:
The aggressed logging changes makes me hesitate. The simplicy of it is good, but the implications are bad. The 15 min timer was introduced because CCP acknowledged that computer problems happen and you are sometimes unintentionally disconnected in battle. The 15 min timer was there to ensure you'd die if you were going to die. Supercaps have such large EHP that they broke this rule. Now there is the expectation that supers who would not normally have died will die as a result (i.e. a super is aggressed attacking a tower in an empty system, he DCs and warps off aggressed. A lone helios comes in, scans him down, and keeps him aggressed for 4hrs until his friends get home from work to come kill it). This breaks the intention of the original rule in the opposite direction.

The solution: An aggressed supercapital should stay in space for 15 minutes (like now), and after that for as long as it is bubbled or hic-pointed. (credit goes to Mioelnir for the perfect fix)

Dreadnoughts:
Dread siege changes are good, it brings them back into functional service.
Dreads should track better.
Removal of drones is fine because of other buffs.

Supercarriers:
20% EHP nerf to SCs is good, no nerf to Hel.
Separation of F+FBs into a "Fighter Bay" of equal size to current Drone Bay.
Nerf Drone Bay size significantly, but large enough to still field a reasonable number of regular drones.
No nerf to fighters

Titans:
No titan EHP nerf, make Ragnarok stronger. (If you must nerf, Rag should be balanced still)
Titans should be able to doomsday subcaps, scale the damage if necessary.
Fix leviathan shield bonuses so you don't start out damaged.
Titans should keep their drone bays.

New ship class:
They're trying to mold the supercarrier into something that none of the current pilots subscribed to. CCP is trying to nerf the Super Carrier into an Assault Carrier; they should just make a new ship class for this role. Make it cost around 3bil to build, have 5mil EHP, let it only use fighters/fighter-bombers. Let it field a maximum of 10 FBs on the field, capable of holding 20 F+FBs total. Vulnerable to ewar, no bonuses to remote rep, dockable.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1490 - 2011-10-11 21:21:43 UTC
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.

This would be amazing.

Supercarrier pilots would be queueing up to throw themselves off bridges.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1491 - 2011-10-11 21:21:52 UTC
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
Demon Azrakel wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.
they woudl still be useful, they wont do omfg damage anymore and you wont screw them being able to kill a tackling frig.
that would make more senec imo that what your doing now.
dreads become useful again instantly,
win win, just undo the last buff. give us back motherships


Might make me but one if that happened. Only marginally better, still fun, and can triage.

I admit that being a SC pilot is about to get boring as ****.

Still, I would like that 5 minute timer on siege.


they could even buff teh old hp count by 20% say so they could survive 2 or 3 dd's. but there gonna make an awesom ship worthless, more worthless than it used to be.


Sorry, I was assuming the titans would be nerfed / dd removed, my bad.


would have to nerf the damage a dd did i guess to bring it back inline with the old hp counts of both titans and motherships

OMG when can i get a pic here
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1492 - 2011-10-11 21:22:42 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Smoking Blunts wrote:
why dont you just revert the changes, so that super carriers become motherships again. give players teh fighter bomber skill points back and be done with it.

This would be amazing.

Supercarrier pilots would be queueing up to throw themselves off bridges.


probibly not as many as now id bet

OMG when can i get a pic here
Alik Fall92
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1493 - 2011-10-11 21:23:35 UTC
"some nyx pilot, some alliance" wrote:
22m in drones on my nyx pilot, refund that sp or i quit the game

^^ this tbh, dunno if it's been stated here yet already but

suddenly theres ALOT of wasted sp on a SC pilot,

congrats CCP on turning eve into "Goonswarm's Eve Online"

god this is more pathetic than the changes to sov
zulrock
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1494 - 2011-10-11 21:26:39 UTC
The problem with dreads is that they have **** tracking in siege they need to get a tracking buff so they can track a supercarrier that's moving but also there is a range problem too the super carrier should loose the range bonus to fighters and maybe keep the drone bay size. That way to engage supers will have to come within dread firin range to be effective.
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1495 - 2011-10-11 21:28:17 UTC
Alik Fall92 wrote:
"some nyx pilot, some alliance" wrote:
22m in drones on my nyx pilot, refund that sp or i quit the game

^^ this tbh, dunno if it's been stated here yet already but

suddenly theres ALOT of wasted sp on a SC pilot,

congrats CCP on turning eve into "Goonswarm's Eve Online"

god this is more pathetic than the changes to sov


Welp, guess someone chased FotY...
Demon Azrakel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1496 - 2011-10-11 21:29:23 UTC
zulrock wrote:
The problem with dreads is that they have **** tracking in siege they need to get a tracking buff so they can track a supercarrier that's moving but also there is a range problem too the super carrier should loose the range bonus to fighters and maybe keep the drone bay size. That way to engage supers will have to come within dread firin range to be effective.


Dreads can use long range guns and can hit at 250 km, proposed setup is acceptable.
Alik Fall92
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1497 - 2011-10-11 21:42:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Alik Fall92
yep, supers sure were flavor of the year, except erm

theyve been flavor of the half decade but yeah, sure i'm the idiot Shocked

edit: defiant? didnt you die 2yrs ago? gtfo... wheres the "dislike" button anyway?
LegendaryFrog
Perkone
Caldari State
#1498 - 2011-10-11 21:43:03 UTC
The theory behind the changes is good, though I agree with Shadoo in one of the first pages that this is actually going to just push more people into Titans since they will still represent the "Big expensive wtf pwn ship". Their turrets can still be remote tracking boosted to completely decimate subcaps, and their doomsday weapon will clean out capital ships.

I don't think the problem of supercapital proliferation is going to be solved with HP or DPS tweaks... their role needs to be reconsidered. If Titans are supposed to be seen as fleet flagships, there should be some sort of diminishing returns built into their role such that bringing increasingly more of them to a fight has less and less benefit. That way you can actually substantially increase the effectiveness of a Titan to make them desirable to have vs. their large expense... I believe they should still be able to help turn the tide of a battle... but fielding a fleet full of them won't be an "I win because I have more ISK" repeatable situation.
Alik Fall92
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1499 - 2011-10-11 21:44:20 UTC
LegendaryFrog wrote:
The theory behind the changes is good, though I agree with Shadoo in one of the first pages that this is actually going to just push more people into Titans since they will still represent the "Big expensive wtf pwn ship". Their turrets can still be remote tracking boosted to completely decimate subcaps, and their doomsday weapon will clean out capital ships.

I don't think the problem of supercapital proliferation is going to be solved with HP or DPS tweaks... their role needs to be reconsidered. If Titans are supposed to be seen as fleet flagships, there should be some sort of diminishing returns built into their role such that bringing increasingly more of them to a fight has less and less benefit. That way you can actually substantially increase the effectiveness of a Titan to make them desirable to have vs. their large expense... I believe they should still be able to help turn the tide of a battle... but fielding a fleet full of them won't be an "I win because I have more ISK" repeatable situation.

goonie, stop talking

you already won eve no need to rub it in our faces

Mittiani for CCP President 2012™
Damian Gene
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#1500 - 2011-10-11 21:45:34 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:


New ship class:
They're trying to mold the supercarrier into something that none of the current pilots subscribed to. CCP is trying to nerf the Super Carrier into an Assault Carrier; they should just make a new ship class for this role. Make it cost around 3bil to build, have 5mil EHP, let it only use fighters/fighter-bombers. Let it field a maximum of 10 FBs on the field, capable of holding 20 F+FBs total. Vulnerable to ewar, no bonuses to remote rep, dockable.


+1