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New dev blog: Capital ship balancing

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iulixxi
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#1341 - 2011-10-11 16:57:32 UTC
kralz wrote:
yes many of them were as they were all on the ihub trying to blow it up. however little known fact is that the FB sig radius goes up HUGELY when a super pilot recalls them and the MWD turns on...

so my SB squad launched bombs, super cap pilots panic and recall fighters,MWD turns on, bombs travel 30km and detonate. in the path of the retreating FB wings and fire works take place. but 6 well placed bombs on the FB as the are shooting the target does very large damage to them. i am very sad when i see incomming bombs, thinking about all those damn letters i have to write to the families of my dead FB pilots. but i digress i do not call them back so as they donot increase their damage intake with MWD sig penatly. i have lost plenty of fighter bombers, fighters and drones to stealth bomber, the pilots in the SB just have to know what they are doing.


SmileBlink Nice story ... you must be indeed a great, quiet calm stealth FC since you could even control the moment the pilot recall his fighters P
Dirk Tungsten
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1342 - 2011-10-11 16:57:57 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
Phoenus wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
iulixxi wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:

Carrier = Can launch standard drones
SUPERCarrier = Cant?
When you make a super version of something you generally try to not make it worse than its standard counterpart.


Hey … don’t get me wrong … You are giving the wrong arguments here. (At least in my humble opinion)

You started by pointing out the cost difference, obviously it was a wrong example. Now you are pinning on the name, on the same logic we could have assume a JUMPFreighter shold have a bigger cargo hold, well even if it’s 6 x times the price it has a cargo hold 1/3 (+/-) of the Freighter …

Try making an objective comparison between ships and most important ship classes / ship roles. Each ship in a specific class has advantages and disadvantages (also present across races). In your case: a carrier can field normal drones, but then again is more vulnerable because it lacks the EW immunity of SUPERCarriers … A carrier can fit a triage while a SUPERCarrier a remote ECM … and so on ... A carrier was design for support while a SUPERCarrier for killing carriers (capitals)/structures ...

E


How does any of what you said explain why they didn't chisel in a 25m3 drone bay on such a massive ship?


Nono Grath. They had a drone bay chiselled into such a massive ship. They just decided it was a really bad idea, and removed it.

CCP, in typical CCP fashion, release a dev blog a few days ago saying 'don't worry guys, we got this', and then release a new one proving that they have absolutely no idea what they are doing. :) :)


CCP officially suck ass. Plz Allow a seperate entity to make patch choices, you've proven to be a tradgedy, supposedly let an entity/parliment etc one wich has an unbiased influence & unbiased conceptions make choices from facts an figures an all aspects of eves player base. CCP cannot be trusted to know what there player base wants or this fail would not have happened. This would be a way to salvage this messed up situation make sure your loyal paying Vets dont disragard the game as being up **** creek

Please do not evade the profanity filter. Zymurgist
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#1343 - 2011-10-11 16:58:21 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Misanth wrote:
ThaWolf wrote:
Maybe instead of nerving we should rather redo the Super-carrier as a whole, after reading this thread, i think they are not fitting in the game as they are, overpowered on one hand, mainly in larger groups, and close to useless if they get nerved that way, while the character is stuck in it.

So i came up with that:

New role, high end toy for all ppl who like to fly Caps, can do much but nothing Overpowered.

- Fighter Bombers will be pure Anti-Structure Weapons, bombing range 35km, anti Pos too, dmg should be like 2 Dreads

- Fighters stay like they are pre-nerv, the SCs should do Damage like 2 Carriers

- Drone bay gets nerved to 1 Bomber set 1 Fighter set and ~500m3 (yeah still normal Drones)

- SC cant use Remote repair mods, they should be only for Standard Carriers.

- ECM immunity stays

- remote ECM stays

- All SCs should be balanced to the defense Capabilities of a NYX (which i think is the most balanced EHP for SCs)

- balance production price of all SCs to the same amount

- SCs should be able to dock as a Compensation, and to make it possible that more ppl rely want to own them, so more can be killed


Agree with everything except the dock part. Supers are unique in the sense that they are a) e-war immune and b) can't dock. That's the benefit and tradeoff you get for flying one, something you accept by taking the seat, and something they should never change.



fwiw I hate supercaps more than just about anybody and even I can't think of a compelling reason that they can't dock. Seems like such a little thing to free up supercap pilots from boring endless hours of guarding a pos somewhere.


If you let them dock, suddenly alot of people will feel "hey cool, now it doesn't matter anymore, I could just get one". In fact, if CCP let us dock them, I'd buy a couple more again after selling off some. Being forced to use parking alts and/or dedicated pilots, keep down the population of supers for one. It keeps more POS' fueled, which is good for the economy as a whole. It makes them easier to kill, which is another good argument for keeping them in space.

I'll give you this; even tho I'm a maxed out superpilot, carrier5, fb5, jumpskills etc, I'd be happy to see all supers gone from the game. Titans, moms, yes, but I'd like to see dreads and carriers gone too. However, they do exist, and as such, a super is not a cap and a cap is not a super. The supers are distinguished, expensive e-peen toys that has several tradeoffs when getting one. You're talking about giving pilots incentitives to fly them. I'm talking about deterrents. I.e. in my case, I accepted to that I would "lose" a pilot and dedicate an accounts training for each super I picked up. If person X feels that is "steep", then they shouldn't get a super.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#1344 - 2011-10-11 17:01:19 UTC
Evil Celeste wrote:
Misanth wrote:

Do you want free isk with the subscription too? CCP already gave lazy players like you the HIC to tackle supers. We used to tackle them by bumping, nossing and neuting, you should learn the core mechanics of the game before you even beg for free killmails. P

Since I'm all nice and posting helpful hinters today, I'll give you another: a) you can use multiple HIC that rotate their points, so they can be RR'd, b) you can keep at the edge of pointrange, pulse mwd and warp off/back.

It's so ridicilously easy to point supers today that anyone who fails to do so, does not deserve a kill.

Yes, its completely lazymode to be able to tackle supercarrier only with 1 type of ship, that is completely useless for anything else in lowsec.
Its also ridiculously easy to point scs, because you are not under 20 fighters from each, 2x 30k+ neuts from each and remote ecm burst.
Its also completely ok, that supercarriers - that can be built ONLY in 0.0 sovereignity space - can be used without any disadvantage in low sec space. Space, where you cannot built supercarrier.

Also how much supercarriers there were in game, when you used to tackle them with "bumps." Nice example of "always bet on stupid" pvp approach btw. And nice example of ccp providing good pvp balance. Making a ship, that basically cant be tackled withou pilot making mistake, mmm every fotmchaser goes wet...


You're a lousy player, just FYI.

I've been on both sides, both had my supers pointed by HICs/dics, as well as in some cases being one of few HIC's to point a super in lowsec. In one case I was one of two HIC's that kept a Nyx pointed for a couple of minutes before the rest of the fleet arrived. If you think it's that easy to fend off HIC's you should've taken the advice I posted above. P

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
kralz
Zero Fun Allowed
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#1345 - 2011-10-11 17:03:18 UTC
iulixxi wrote:
kralz wrote:
yes many of them were as they were all on the ihub trying to blow it up. however little known fact is that the FB sig radius goes up HUGELY when a super pilot recalls them and the MWD turns on...

so my SB squad launched bombs, super cap pilots panic and recall fighters,MWD turns on, bombs travel 30km and detonate. in the path of the retreating FB wings and fire works take place. but 6 well placed bombs on the FB as the are shooting the target does very large damage to them. i am very sad when i see incomming bombs, thinking about all those damn letters i have to write to the families of my dead FB pilots. but i digress i do not call them back so as they donot increase their damage intake with MWD sig penatly. i have lost plenty of fighter bombers, fighters and drones to stealth bomber, the pilots in the SB just have to know what they are doing.


SmileBlink Nice story ... you must be indeed a great, quiet calm stealth FC since you could even control the moment the pilot recall his fighters P



do not troll me. do not mock me. cause and effect here is simple.
a steal bomber wing can control when a super carrier panics and recalls his drones. simply by decloaking and launching his payload. no SC carrier pilot wants to watch all hi DPS go poof, and a great many of them dont know that by recalling them they are allowing them to take more damage then they may have. cause and effect. i have been extremely polite up to this point, lets keep it that way, 34 bombs would be very difficult to field against a super cap fleet since MORE then 6 bombs at a time and they will destroy themselves.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#1346 - 2011-10-11 17:04:22 UTC
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
[quote=Phoenus]

CCP officially suck ass. Plz Allow a seperate entity to make patch choices, you've proven to be a tradgedy, supposedly let an entity/parliment etc one wich has an unbiased influence & unbiased conceptions make choices from facts an figures an all aspects of eves player base. CCP cannot be trusted to know what there player base wants or this fail would not have happened. This would be a way to salvage this messed up situation make sure your loyal paying Vets dont disragard the game as being up s.h.i.t. creek



Ok, so, looking at your last 10 posts or so, the only thing you've made me think would be a good idea is for you to shut the hell up..
You're obviously hating on ccp and goons, and if you honestly think the game is that bad a shape you should probably find another one. I hear WoT is the 'bittervet refuge' at the moment. Less pointless rage, more leaving.

Please...?

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#1347 - 2011-10-11 17:04:27 UTC
Anile8er wrote:
Another issue here is some players use supercarriers for other than PVP at times. Before all the flaming and name calling, I ask you why shouldn't they be able to? Players use PVP ships to PVE in EVE all the time, CCP allows those ships to be cross functional.

And for the guy in the purely PVE faction battleship, a ship class designed for PVP but often used for PVE, he can just dock and change ships when he wants. What if CCP said Navy Ravens should only be able to kill Battleship class hulls in this game, we are disallowing the fitting of cruise lunchers and removing the drone bay.

I would love to see the uproar in this game if CCP changed every ship to be single tasked, single focused. For example, Hurricanes and Drakes will only be able to damage other BC, we are making their weapon systems 100% ineffective against smaller ships and removing the drone bays, so make sure you bring a frigate support fleet with your BC roam or you will get raped a small frigate gang. Same with battleships, if you are flying a battleship you have a 0% chance of hitting or doing any damage to a ship smaller than another battleship and you will have no drone bay. In fact unless you are in a ship with drone bonuses you will not have a drone bay. And the type of drone you can use in your drone ship will be based on your ship class/size, so Ishkur can use lights, Vexor, Ishtar, Myrmidon and Gila can only use mediums, and the Dominix can only use heavys and sentries.

That is the kind of inflexibilty CCP is presenting for supercaps.


That's the very essence of what I try highlight that CCP is doing. I talk a bunch about how this game is becoming a blob game and mechanics behind it, but the real point I try illustrate is that supers are pigeonholed by CCP. This game was a sandbox game, CCP sell it as it a sandbox game, players used to shape the universe and we found alternative ways to use ships, not just 'as they were intended'. CCP is destroying that by pigeonholing everything into blob warfare, and supers are being forced into a blobfest fleetship.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Carabusu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1348 - 2011-10-11 17:04:48 UTC
xxxak wrote:
Update:

This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and if lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Other thoughts:

1) Nerfing fighters makes carriers even more crap. This was unnecessary.
2) Supercarriers should at least be able to carry 20 FB + 20 fighters
3) The removal of the drone bay is a nerf to small alliances who are more likely to use a small number of "ninja" supercarrier tactics. Now those supercarriers can get tackled and killed much more easily by even a small/medium gang of subcaps.
4) Huge alliances that can field huge fleets (super cap gang+proper sub cap fleet) will be even more powerful.
5) Supercarriers are no longer good for anything but shooting POS mods and Sov mods. LOL.

The nerf should have been as follows:
1) Fix logoffski timer
2) DD can only hit caps
3) Small EHP reduction for supercarriers

Those three fixes alone would have been enough to start.

Can some Dev explain the decision to not even let SC carry 20 fighters??

Actually, looking more at the fighter nerf.... what can they hit now? POS mods? LOL. Huge stealth carrier nerf. Care to explain this one as well?


Could not have said this better. Well put.

Typical CCP Balancing = "Grab your axes boys...we're goin' nerfin!"

This is seriously a sad thing. Trained my butt off for a LOOOOOONG time, spent billions of ISK, and now my Super Carrier will SIT in a POS doing NOTHING until there's a POS to shoot/rep ? At least before I could Rat to pass the time. Now, I can't even do that. You, CCP, should slow down a bit. Just the 3 ideas above definitely would have been enough to start.

Fly Well, Kill Many The Busu
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#1349 - 2011-10-11 17:08:01 UTC
Evil Celeste wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Drop Dead Sexy wrote:
as a sub cap pilot, lo sec roamer i second this nerf, thank you dev's,
any chance on forbidding titans in low sec??? titan alfa kills are very annoying and must be looked at.
super cap hot drops on a single ship becoming more and more popular taking away all chances of survival for solo warrior.


What kind of ****** pilot are you that can't get away from a solo super? You don't fit propulsion mod? P


You are clearly not aware of 1337 pvpers "new" tactics.

You engage in 1v1 in any other than kiting ship (i know, completely stupid idea right?), you get tackled, sc warps/jumps in, reps target, applies neuts and bunch of drones. After the gank just leaves. Without any real danger.

Gogo ewar immunity in lowsec.


Again you didn't read what I post.. but I'll be generous again: I said "get away from a solo super". If he was tackled, pointed and webbed by ship X, then the super is not the issue. The issue is that his ship XYZ is not killing ship ZYX. The super just adds in, and it's not a solo super. XYZ could've brought a cyno of his own for example, dropped HICs and a bunch of pals and killed the super.

Subcaps don't die to solo supers in lowsec, subcaps die to not properly fending off tacklers, or engaging in fights where they did not expect support to come in. That super could've been a carrier or a guardian + dmg ship and you'd see exactly the same outcome: XYZ died because he couldn't fend off a tackler. It has nothing to do with the super itself.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Dirk Tungsten
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1350 - 2011-10-11 17:09:12 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
[quote=Phoenus]

CCP officially suck ass. Plz Allow a seperate entity to make patch choices, you've proven to be a tradgedy, supposedly let an entity/parliment etc one wich has an unbiased influence & unbiased conceptions make choices from facts an figures an all aspects of eves player base. CCP cannot be trusted to know what there player base wants or this fail would not have happened. This would be a way to salvage this messed up situation make sure your loyal paying Vets dont disragard the game as being up s.h.i.t. creek



Ok, so, looking at your last 10 posts or so, the only thing you've made me think would be a good idea is for you to shut the hell up..
You're obviously hating on ccp and goons, and if you honestly think the game is that bad a shape you should probably find another one. I hear WoT is the 'bittervet refuge' at the moment. Less pointless rage, more leaving.

Please...?


lol if you have read them then you must of seen all the facts indicated, but still be ignoring them. Eve is a game iv sticked with thick an thin, but this is stupidity an not going to be silent about it.
Dirk Tungsten
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1351 - 2011-10-11 17:12:56 UTC
Carabusu wrote:
xxxak wrote:
Update:

This nerf = Win Subcap battle, Kill all supers on the field.

So with this nerf, supers can no longer defend themselves from subcaps, and supers are committed for 23 hours once they cyno in.

That means that if you have a 15 man super fleet (mid size alliance), plus 120 sub caps (mid size alliance), and if lose the subcap battle, you also just lost all your supers.

Kthxbai. No way a sane super pilot will commit now unless they are 150% sure that they have a winning fleet. EVE is dead.


Other thoughts:

1) Nerfing fighters makes carriers even more crap. This was unnecessary.
2) Supercarriers should at least be able to carry 20 FB + 20 fighters
3) The removal of the drone bay is a nerf to small alliances who are more likely to use a small number of "ninja" supercarrier tactics. Now those supercarriers can get tackled and killed much more easily by even a small/medium gang of subcaps.
4) Huge alliances that can field huge fleets (super cap gang+proper sub cap fleet) will be even more powerful.
5) Supercarriers are no longer good for anything but shooting POS mods and Sov mods. LOL.

The nerf should have been as follows:
1) Fix logoffski timer
2) DD can only hit caps
3) Small EHP reduction for supercarriers

Those three fixes alone would have been enough to start.

Can some Dev explain the decision to not even let SC carry 20 fighters??

Actually, looking more at the fighter nerf.... what can they hit now? POS mods? LOL. Huge stealth carrier nerf. Care to explain this one as well?


Could not have said this better. Well put.

Typical CCP Balancing = "Grab your axes boys...we're goin' nerfin!"

This is seriously a sad thing. Trained my butt off for a LOOOOOONG time, spent billions of ISK, and now my Super Carrier will SIT in a POS doing NOTHING until there's a POS to shoot/rep ? At least before I could Rat to pass the time. Now, I can't even do that. You, CCP, should slow down a bit. Just the 3 ideas above definitely would have been enough to start.


Dear Sir you wont even be able to shoot pos's anymore only modules. ohh CCP you naughty clowns, certianly know how to mess things up.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1352 - 2011-10-11 17:14:06 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
[quote=Phoenus]

CCP officially suck ass. Plz Allow a seperate entity to make patch choices, you've proven to be a tradgedy, supposedly let an entity/parliment etc one wich has an unbiased influence & unbiased conceptions make choices from facts an figures an all aspects of eves player base. CCP cannot be trusted to know what there player base wants or this fail would not have happened. This would be a way to salvage this messed up situation make sure your loyal paying Vets dont disragard the game as being up s.h.i.t. creek


Ok, so, looking at your last 10 posts or so, the only thing you've made me think would be a good idea is for you to shut the hell up..
You're obviously hating on ccp and goons, and if you honestly think the game is that bad a shape you should probably find another one. I hear WoT is the 'bittervet refuge' at the moment. Less pointless rage, more leaving.

Please...?


Are you kidding? I hope he never shuts up.

Not only are his tear-filled rantings music to our ears, but the fact he's incapable of expressing himself in anything other than incoherent flailing about CCP being owned by us makes anyone else opposed to supercap nerfs look stupid merely by association.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#1353 - 2011-10-11 17:15:54 UTC
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
Dirk Tungsten wrote:
[quote=Phoenus]

CCP officially suck ass. Plz Allow a seperate entity to make patch choices, you've proven to be a tradgedy, supposedly let an entity/parliment etc one wich has an unbiased influence & unbiased conceptions make choices from facts an figures an all aspects of eves player base. CCP cannot be trusted to know what there player base wants or this fail would not have happened. This would be a way to salvage this messed up situation make sure your loyal paying Vets dont disragard the game as being up s.h.i.t. creek



Ok, so, looking at your last 10 posts or so, the only thing you've made me think would be a good idea is for you to shut the hell up..
You're obviously hating on ccp and goons, and if you honestly think the game is that bad a shape you should probably find another one. I hear WoT is the 'bittervet refuge' at the moment. Less pointless rage, more leaving.

Please...?


lol if you have read them then you must of seen all the facts indicated, but still be ignoring them. Eve is a game iv sticked with thick an thin, but this is stupidity an not going to be silent about it.


I didn't actually see any facts. 'lol ccp are goon pets'?

Only reason I've seen your posts is because I'm reading the whole thread Big smile

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#1354 - 2011-10-11 17:17:14 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:


Are you kidding? I hope he never shuts up.

Not only are his tear-filled rantings music to our ears, but the fact he's incapable of expressing himself in anything other than incoherent flailing about CCP being owned by us makes anyone else opposed to supercap nerfs look stupid merely by association.


I am not actually allowed to like this more than once..

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim
Vladimir Helios
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1355 - 2011-10-11 17:19:02 UTC
Loving all of the tears of Super-cap pilots in this thread.

@CCP: Next update: buff Maelstroms.
Unforgiven Storm
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1356 - 2011-10-11 17:19:03 UTC
(Declaration of interests: I have no super carrier, I don't like them, I want them all dead)

So, we have this super carrier problem in 0.0 and this nerf is going to address this issue. In general I agree with it and most of the changes are good and I think they will put an end to the current problem, BUT after I read 50 pages of discussion I have to agree with some minor points of the supers owners, that need to be addressed or basically these ships will be the new dreads and will not be used anymore (and we need them out there so we can have the chance to kill them all)...

Also there is the issue that these pilots invested money and time to get into these ships so at least give them a candy in exchange for the nerf, if you nerf my tengu I would also be mad...

- The candy

allow them to dock those ships

- Minor point 1

The role of these ships goes from "I'm a GOD in the field of battle" to "I can only kill caps and reinforce SOME structures", in one nerf.
At least let them have the possibility to hit all structures, including POSes!
By doing this, we sub cap pilots will not mind, since we do not like to hit poses, let the super pilots do it, and also while they are out killing a pos they became targets for us to drop and kill and a reason for a good fight to be had. :-)

- Minor point 2

Any carrier can deal with one solo ship, 1 at least.
Super carriers should also be able to deal with 1, at least. not 2, just 1.
Minimum drone set should be allowed. -> limit the drone bay size to 200m3 and bandwith so they can only carry and field a limited number drones, like 20 small, 10 medium or 5 heavys/sentries. That is it. minimum defense, nothing more, its fair even for a super to have a way to defend it self against 1 solo ship.

- Minor point 3

If you are going to nerf the ehp of these monsters, then its logical that you change the quantities of the respective BPOs to reflect the changes. A weeker ship should need less materials to be build, having in mind the nerf, the materials to build these monsters should also be nerfed in 20%.

--

Questions about the new agression session timers and logout.

- I'm ratting in a belt alone in a system with a carrier, someone enters in the system, I logout, we warps sees my carrier still aligning for the emergency warpout, shoots me or puts a point or opens a bubble, I'm agressed in any of these 3 scenarios? will I disapear in 1 or 15 minutes?



Unforgiven Storm for CSM 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13. (If I don't get in in the next 5 years I will quit trying) :-)
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#1357 - 2011-10-11 17:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Pandi V wrote:
I think a lot of people are forgetting that Supercarriers and Titans are supposed to be alliance assets not player assets, which means that whether you can successfully field them or not, should be an indication of the strength of your alliance as a whole in terms of manpower, resources, leadership and organizational efficiency.


* There's no "supposed to be". They're assets of whoever has aquired them, in whatever way they did.
* If alliances want to use their resources to show their strenght, reward their members, or simply has this as some kind of endgame goal, they're free to do so.
* Guerilla warfare is often quite effective, both in EVE as well as RL. If say a 5man corp has a mothership and they're fighting a 100 man alliance who don't, the 5man obviously deserve what they have achived. Does it mean either side should be stronger? Or that the 5man corp are too small to own a super?

I've personally owned multiple supers, I have made the isk for them myself and not had any of them given to me. I've fielded them for my corp, for my alliance, but also for my own personal use. Why would I not? They were my asset, not my alliance asset, and not a fleet boat. Even tho I used it as, at times, it was also my personal ships.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1358 - 2011-10-11 17:19:53 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:


Are you kidding? I hope he never shuts up.

Not only are his tear-filled rantings music to our ears, but the fact he's incapable of expressing himself in anything other than incoherent flailing about CCP being owned by us makes anyone else opposed to supercap nerfs look stupid merely by association.


I am not actually allowed to like this more than once..



Careful, if you like or agree with anything a goon says it means you're a goon pet and we own you.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Damian Gene
Sons of Seyllin
Pirate Lords of War
#1359 - 2011-10-11 17:22:03 UTC
Ok, well much has been said about this.
First off, I fly subcaps.
Second off, I fly a HIC (Onyx actualy)

So your telling me now, that I can point a titan and all I need to do is orbit with an afterburner running?
With titans not able to DD me AND not able to log off, I can simply wait for a fleet to form and light my cyno?
Even to me, this is kind of bad considering a titan costs at least 70b and my ship costs 250m.
When I was in the North, I remember MM lost more supers to them logging in and getting scanned down, then on the field of battle.

Cracking a DD costs: 25,000,000isk at 50,000 units of iso's x 500isk each. Why not change that to 200,000 units so it costs 100m per crack, make sure their cargo can carry lets say, 3-5 cracks? And yes, they should be able to hit subcaps. This way, I need to have a few friends in order to tackle them.

Supers.
I've wanted a Wyvern for a long time, as I fly Caldari. However, I've noticed that I can ONLY old 20 F and 20FB. If I wanted to carry ANY other drones, I'd have to decide to drop a F or a FB. Already a hard choice, as I'd like to have a full bay of ECM drones.
Now I guess I'll just get a carrier. I can do that with a carrier, 10 fighers, 10 ECM, 10x all other useful drones.
If a Super is carrying fighers, then it will have 20 usable fighers. that's only 2x better then a carrier in DPS... Now those fighers, be they in a carrier OR a super are going to suck MORE?

A fit Chimera costs maybe 1b, whereas a fit Wyvern costs 17b?

We just went back in time, to the amazing days of MoM's. 1.5x the EHP of a carrier, 2x the damage and 17x the cost. At least you didnt cut the EHP that bad, but you still made these ships not worth being entombed in. If you want them to be used, cut their cost down to reflect the shitness that they are going to be.

I dont like blobs, but I believe you hit the Supers pinata with nerf bat a bit hard.

TL;DR
Supers EHP cut: Good
Supers not able to use other drones: Ok...people will deal with it.
Supers not able to carry 20F 20FB: BAD
Logoff timers: Ok (but people will just use DT to their advantage)
Titans not being able to doomsday subcaps: BAD (lowsec, everywhere?)
Titans EHP cut: Good
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#1360 - 2011-10-11 17:27:36 UTC
Evil Celeste wrote:
FlameOfSurvival wrote:
supercarrier in lowsec could still ECM Burst a HIC ;)


Yeah, kill its point immunity or remote ecm burst in lowsec.


Said HIC also re-locks in less than a second, the mom needs to be fully aligned and not get bumped at all. If the attackers arn't idiots they bump, even when they have points.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.