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It's All About Trust

First post
Author
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#181 - 2013-01-29 09:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
I do think there needs to be an counter in situations like this since the mechanic really isn't being used as intended. The ability to freely shoot corp mates in high sec won't have any real place in the game once the duel system is introduced and should be made into a Concord infraction. Alternately, let players "leave" corps in space if under attack by a corp mate and they haven't fired back by making the stasis period engage Concord protection from corpies.

Or better yet, let CEOs decide whether member on member aggression is allowed in the corp or calls in Concord.
Ra Jackson
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2013-01-29 09:40:54 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I do think there needs to be an counter in situations like this since the mechanic really isn't being used as intended. The ability to freely shoot corp mates in high sec won't have any real place in the game once the duel system is introduced and should be made into a Concord infraction. Alternately, let players "leave" corps in space if under attack by a corp mate and they haven't fired back by making the stasis period engage Concord protection from corpies.

Or better yet, let CEOs decide whether member on member aggression is allowed in the corp or calls in Concord.


There is the counter of being able to shoot back. Works as intended. How you can lose a Navy Raven outside of station is beyond me tho..

To the OP: The question is not if you can trust people in this game, but with what. If you decide to undock your shiny mission ship alongside a new recruit you decide to trust him with it.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#183 - 2013-01-29 09:47:59 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Adam Junior wrote:
You've succeded in letting the "dirty gewn" cause far more upset than he'd ever planned on causing by ragekicking everyone.

Well done! Big smile


Wasn't ragekicking. How can I trust them? The answer is that I don't anymore.


You deny it and yet, in the same sentence You confirm it. Lol

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#184 - 2013-01-29 10:06:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jada Maroo
Ra Jackson wrote:


There is the counter of being able to shoot back. Works as intended. How you can lose a Navy Raven outside of station is beyond me tho..



Not all ships are combat ships, and not all ships are equipped for PvP. But that isn't even relevant. CCP has established certain guidelines to what causes Concord to respond in high sec. Up until now, they have left this bizarre mechanic of allowing people within a corp to freely shoot up their corpmates while they are locked in corp in space untouched. I don't believe this is currently working as intended. I think the purpose of it was likely to allow corp members to practice PvP on each other freely, not to use it as a mechanics-based trap. I'd be very surprised if it stays this way for long after the duel system is implemented. It tilts far too heavily on the side of the ganker. He was the CEO and he couldn't even kick the pilot from corp because he was in space, which is silly. Even if a pilot has roles, stasis pilots shouldn't stay in corp for a day. They should be immediately dropped to NPC corp where normal rules apply and then be prevented from joining a new corp for a day from there, not from their previous employer.

I wondered why he didn't dock too, but he said he was 100k off the station.

All that said, I never trust anyone. Especially players with a lot of corp hopping history.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-01-29 10:09:47 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Rain6635 wrote:
show me your 1 bil navy raven fit please.


Why are you so insistent? Do you want to be able to tell me it is a bad fit? I don't really care.

Rigs:
2X Large Field Purger 1s.
1x ( some type of Calefacation module.)

Highs:
7X Caldari Navy Heavy launchers
1X Large Regard Energy Transfer

Mids:
1 X 100MN T2 afterburner
3 X Large T2 Shield Extenders
1 X T2 Mission specific shield Hardener.
1 X SEBO II with Tracking Range Script

Lows:
3 X Power Diagnostic IIS
2 X Caldari Navy BCSs

Now, please keep your opinion of the fit to yourself. It won't have any effect on me, and it has nothing to do with this thread.


I feel like someone ripped You off good for recommending that fit, but maybe You got that faction launchers for free so it may have been a good deal... :/

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#186 - 2013-01-29 10:22:57 UTC
Peter Raptor wrote:
It's come to a stage where I don't even accept people with a "G" in their name.


I guess Gustavioon Greatwaffles would be out of the question then?

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#187 - 2013-01-29 11:02:01 UTC
Pewty McPew wrote:
[

You trusted a Goon? Once a Goon always a Goon. You got what you deserved and also learned an important lesson "NEVER TRUST A GOON"




I trust Goons all the time.

Why I trusted a Goon just the other day.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#188 - 2013-01-29 11:51:34 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Pewty McPew wrote:
[

You trusted a Goon? Once a Goon always a Goon. You got what you deserved and also learned an important lesson "NEVER TRUST A GOON"




I trust Goons all the time.

Why I trusted a Goon just the other day.


lol, that sounds a lot like some people I overheard the other day:

"I'm not a racist, some of my best friends are foreigners!" :)

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#189 - 2013-01-29 11:58:43 UTC
My glorious leader was a member of Goonfleet back when that was a thing and I've never had a problem.

Must just be you OP.
DrunkenNinja
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#190 - 2013-01-29 12:17:34 UTC
Maybe you shouldn't have been missioning in a CNR if losing it was such a big deal to you anyway?
It's just PVE man, why are you so upset?
Maybe this revelation will help get you into low/nullsec?
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#191 - 2013-01-29 12:23:53 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
I accepted him and asked him along on a Level 4. He killed my CNR right outside of my home station. 994 million ISK down the tubes.

It was obviously my fault, as much for the things I did as the things I didn't do.

I dont want to pile up on you, but this never should have happened. Learn about the different types of flags in this game and how they work for or against you. This is a good place to start:
Crimewatch

I assume you shot back and got a weapons flag and couldnt dock up. Else its nigh impossible to lose a battleship at docking range of a station. This is also the reason why people go through suck lengths of baiting someone to shoot them. (undocking while flashy etc etc)

In short, if you dont want to battle till death, dont return fire unless committed to the fight. Because weapons flag will prevent you from docking in any station, jumping through a stargate, ejecting from or boarding another ship while in space, and storing a ship in a corp or fleet hangar.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#192 - 2013-01-29 12:26:06 UTC
People seem to be playing the Victim card way to much. I have been on the receiving end of a AWOX... however it went very bad for the dude that tried.

If your going to act like a victim your going to be a victim to anybody and everybody that comes after you.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk

Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#193 - 2013-01-29 16:47:03 UTC
Jada Maroo wrote:
I do think there needs to be an counter in situations like this since the mechanic really isn't being used as intended. The ability to freely shoot corp mates in high sec won't have any real place in the game once the duel system is introduced and should be made into a Concord infraction. Alternately, let players "leave" corps in space if under attack by a corp mate and they haven't fired back by making the stasis period engage Concord protection from corpies.

Or better yet, let CEOs decide whether member on member aggression is allowed in the corp or calls in Concord.


Corp mates aggrressing each other in my corp is not allowed. I've seen too many good ships lost by 'accident'.

One of the first things I tell new joins is that if they lock a corp mate, they become priority target number 1 for every other corp mate on scene. Our Logi pilot is the only exception, and that is because I know his ship isn't armed.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#194 - 2013-01-29 16:51:14 UTC
DrunkenNinja wrote:

Maybe this revelation will help get you into low/nullsec?


I've spent a year in null sec. The number of people who can be trusted there is less than in Hi Sec, which isn't a great endorsement for either.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#195 - 2013-01-29 18:45:07 UTC
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:

Are you saying that no Goon, not even one, can ever be successfully rehabilitated? That Goons have no chance at all of ever becoming decent human beings again? I want to see some credible demographic statistics on ex-Goon recidivism (that's the correct spelling there, I looked it up) rates. Until then, I refuse to judge my fellow man based upon mistakes he may have made in his past. Even if that includes a history with Gewns.


I'm sure there are exceptions. Too bad. The only good goonie, active or ex-, is a dead one. They seem to attract the scum of the scum. Kind of understandable. Look at the leadership.

I refused to judge my AWOXER on mistakes in his past. Look what I got. Maybe, if you ever make the same mistake, you will learn the same lesson.

Ever see "A Clockwork Orange"? Remember how they rehabilitated that droogie? It make take about the same for a Goon.
NARDAC
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2013-01-29 19:12:55 UTC
Memories....

I too once started a new player friendly high-sec training corp doing mission running with newbs, and allowed in a few other players that said they too wanted to help out the newer players..

I figured, what do I have to lose? I didn't give out the POS roles. I had all the expensive stuff in locked down in personal hangers.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14915039

A more experienced player wanted to run a mission with me but didn't have a ship handy.. so, I loaned him my maelstrom. Not only did he blow up my billion iSK macherial, he did it with the ship I loaned him. He also took about 300 million ISK worth of stuff from the shared corp hanger.

Then he wouldn't dock up so that I could kick him from corp, so no one else could undock until they left corp.


The year leading up to that point had been super frustrating, both in game (2 corps disintegrated and a 3rd moved to northern 0.0) and in real life ( was undergoing cancer treatment) that I gave up on this player base and quit EVE.

It felt like, if you are not a total donkeyhole, this game just is not for you....

Took a year away before I came back.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#197 - 2013-01-30 02:32:32 UTC
Khergit Deserters wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Khergit Deserters wrote:

Are you saying that no Goon, not even one, can ever be successfully rehabilitated? That Goons have no chance at all of ever becoming decent human beings again? I want to see some credible demographic statistics on ex-Goon recidivism (that's the correct spelling there, I looked it up) rates. Until then, I refuse to judge my fellow man based upon mistakes he may have made in his past. Even if that includes a history with Gewns.


I'm sure there are exceptions. Too bad. The only good goonie, active or ex-, is a dead one. They seem to attract the scum of the scum. Kind of understandable. Look at the leadership.

I refused to judge my AWOXER on mistakes in his past. Look what I got. Maybe, if you ever make the same mistake, you will learn the same lesson.

Ever see "A Clockwork Orange"? Remember how they rehabilitated that droogie? It make take about the same for a Goon.

Honestly, going awoxing or corp thieving without even at least making a new alt is just lazy.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#198 - 2013-01-30 16:59:05 UTC
NARDAC wrote:
Memories....

I too once started a new player friendly high-sec training corp doing mission running with newbs, and allowed in a few other players that said they too wanted to help out the newer players..

I figured, what do I have to lose? I didn't give out the POS roles. I had all the expensive stuff in locked down in personal hangers.

http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=14915039

A more experienced player wanted to run a mission with me but didn't have a ship handy.. so, I loaned him my maelstrom. Not only did he blow up my billion iSK macherial, he did it with the ship I loaned him. He also took about 300 million ISK worth of stuff from the shared corp hanger.

Then he wouldn't dock up so that I could kick him from corp, so no one else could undock until they left corp.


The year leading up to that point had been super frustrating, both in game (2 corps disintegrated and a 3rd moved to northern 0.0) and in real life ( was undergoing cancer treatment) that I gave up on this player base and quit EVE.

It felt like, if you are not a total donkeyhole, this game just is not for you....

Took a year away before I came back.


I'm not glad I wasn't the only one. I kind of wish I had been, but maybe a few other CEOs will see this and save themselves some grief.
Not Politically Correct
Doomheim
#199 - 2013-01-30 17:12:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Not Politically Correct
Debora Tsung wrote:
Not Politically Correct wrote:
Adam Junior wrote:
You've succeded in letting the "dirty gewn" cause far more upset than he'd ever planned on causing by ragekicking everyone.

Well done! Big smile


Wasn't ragekicking. How can I trust them? The answer is that I don't anymore.


You deny it and yet, in the same sentence You confirm it. Lol



Look at it this way. I run missions with expensive ships, and some of the new corp members also have expensive ships. So far the new members have proven to be trustworthy.

The old corp members? What did I know about them except that they were new? But new what's? New goonie alts or just new players.

Our expensive ships have value to us because of the time and effort that we put in gathering the ISK needed to buy them. It doesn't matter that we can afford to replace them. What matters is that we don't like losing them so some nimrod can get a few seconds of pleasure out of destroying them.

We would not engage in consensual PvP in those ships. They are designed to run missions, quickly and efficiently, not for PvP. No matter what the vocal minority says, the world does not revolve around PvP. Lately I've been hearing that from a lot of other people, too.

Also, as a CEO I have a responsibility to provide a safe work environment for corp members. If that means getting rid of members that I don't personally trust, it's still a responsibility, and has nothing to do with how mad that incident made me.

All things considered, I stick by that decision, and I think that any CEO in the same circumstances who doesn't make the same decision is likely to learn the same way that I did.
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2013-01-30 17:36:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Posta Wifda Mosta
Not Politically Correct wrote:
I've been playing since July of 2009. Had my ups and downs. Made a lot of ISK mining, lost a corp to an infiltrator, lost some expensive ships, blah, blah, blah.

Then I decided to start a mission running corp, and it was expanding nicely. 2.5% tax rate, Level 4 missions 18 hours a day even for people only 2 weeks old. It was a lot of fun helping them. Life was good.

Today I got an application from a 2007 player. +5.0 standing with Concord, no bounty, seemed like a nice guy, but there was a problem. He had been in both Goonswarm and Goonwaffe in 2010. So I asked him about that before accepting the application. He said that was a thing of the past, he had grown out of that phase.

Do you see where I am going now?

I accepted him and asked him along on a Level 4. He killed my CNR right outside of my home station. 994 million ISK down the tubes.

It was obviously my fault, as much for the things I did as the things I didn't do. But what's the result?

All the members of the corp are now in stasis and will be kicked as soon as they come out. Applications will be disabled permanently. I'm not going to quit the game, because I like it, but I would much rather fly solo, and auto-reject, than get another surprise like that.

'Nough said.


There are a lot of people in this game who would probably **** their pants if you showed them a clenched fist in real life. I've been in your kind of position before, I've lost a corp worth billions and I even had someone like that goonie whom I never really trusted. The one day when he decided to attack my vigilant worth near 2 billion with a navy issue Mega he was surprised that I had other accounts including a top end armor logistic ship (I shadowed my combat ships with a cloaky logi for over a week expecting him to try something) and that all of my miners were well trained to fly stealth bombers. He was expecting to alpha my Vigilant before it could escape, but it didn't pan out for him. Needless to say he quit the corp. However there are decent people that you can trust for the most part and have fun playing with so don't totally over react.