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NPC AI Adjustment: Does it solve anything?
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POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#101 - 2012-12-24 04:16:20 UTC
Just quit whining and either:

(A) Quit the game

(B) Start mining until you can learn missiles like CCP wants you to do.

Seriously, CCP hates drones. They always have. It was a good run and Ill miss the old Domi but lvl4 missions are clearly meant to be done in a Tengu. Get with the program.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#102 - 2012-12-24 10:36:47 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Seriously, CCP hates drones. They always have. It was a good run and Ill miss the old Domi but lvl4 missions are clearly meant to be done in a Tengu. Get with the program.


I'm affraid but the so-used argument of the persecuted minority won't work here. I mean, CCP created drones as it's their game. Why would they hate them ? Nobody forced them to create the drone weapon system.

A more constructive approach would be to say that CCP is not spending too much time on drones actually, as they know that this **** needs to be reworked anyway (they said it). Actually they are just trying to create a mechanism somewhat playable to make drone users "survive" until the release of the next patch, with brand shiny new drones mechanics.

And honestly, currently drone users are complaining a lot for the most little bit of change about their favorite toy, exactly like an old man locked into his own old routine and the comfort of stagnation.

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Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#103 - 2012-12-24 10:57:45 UTC
Altrue wrote:
POKER ALICE wrote:
Seriously, CCP hates drones. They always have. It was a good run and Ill miss the old Domi but lvl4 missions are clearly meant to be done in a Tengu. Get with the program.


I'm affraid but the so-used argument of the persecuted minority won't work here. I mean, CCP created drones as it's their game. Why would they hate them ? Nobody forced them to create the drone weapon system..


Defender missiles say "Hi" Blink
Mund Richard
#104 - 2012-12-24 11:13:44 UTC
Altrue wrote:
A more constructive approach would be to say that CCP is not spending too much time on drones actually, as they know that this **** needs to be reworked anyway (they said it). Actually they are just trying to create a mechanism somewhat playable to make drone users "survive" until the release of the next patch, with brand shiny new drones mechanics.

And honestly, currently drone users are complaining a lot for the most little bit of change about their favorite toy, exactly like an old man locked into his own old routine and the comfort of stagnation.

Confirming I'm like a cranky old man.
Also confirming I don't like change...
...change that makes missions more like WHs on the hassle level, without making them also more lucrative.
Changes like the drone poo (had them from missions), the drop altering, and now this, that cuts into my virtual pocket.
Why would anyone like it, if his gaming becomes more of a chore.

Might as well just go live in a WH, somewhat the same AI, better isk.
Well, I can be killed anytime, but it may be a good change of pace.
...hmm... I wonder if that was an aim of CCP?

And no, still not an afk player, I just don't like it, if alt+tabbing to change the music can get more than one of my drones killed.
Also, RIP Jukebox.

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#105 - 2012-12-24 13:40:06 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Just quit whining and either:

(A) Quit the game

(B) Start mining until you can learn missiles like CCP wants you to do.

Seriously, CCP hates drones. They always have. It was a good run and Ill miss the old Domi but lvl4 missions are clearly meant to be done in a Tengu. Get with the program.


I opted for both: I'm just mining until subscription runs out, then dumping all my stuff in corp hangers on my final day. I'm not going to spend another entire year learning a whole new skill set just to match the CCP approved cookie-cutter Tengu fleet. Making missions work like WHs? Make PvE play like PvP? I don't recall asking for any of that. The people who shoved this crap through were the WH and PvPers who found it heresy that people were actually playing the game in a different manner than themselves.

They try to call it a sandbox game and then turn around and try to force everyone into a singular style of play.

Drone captains quitting game: Working as intended.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2012-12-24 13:57:12 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
Just quit whining and either:

(A) Quit the game


You know, I think this is becoming a pet peeve of mine. CCP should really start banning people who tell people to quit the game. Population of this game is small enough as it is, and a huge percentage of that population is alts anyhow.

What happened to compromise? Middle ground? Solution that would be pleasing or at least acceptable to both parties? Instead everyone here is stuck in bipolar mode - deal with **** or GTFO. What kind of approach is that?!
Lysa D
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-12-24 14:12:01 UTC
My impressions: Initially, the AI change targeted my drones more. After some subtle changes in tactics, they target them much much less. If you find the NPC's are targeting your drones too much, find those small changes in how you fly and/or fit. You'll find your sweet spot.

CCP didn't nerf drones. All they did was add a teeny weeny challenge in using drones. If that bump in the road is too much for you, there are plenty of games that require no challenge or use of brain cells.

P.S. Don't compromise with stupid.
Jason13 Anzomi
#108 - 2012-12-24 14:16:53 UTC
Lysa D wrote:
CCP didn't nerf drones. All they did was add a teeny weeny challenge in using drones. If that bump in the road is too much for you, there are plenty of games that require no challenge or use of brain cells.


There are also games that are more fun.

Eve had been fun for me. Then the changes began and the fun went downhill. The skill points I invested in T2 drones will not be refunded so I can learn another weapon system. The drone problems get bandaids, but no solutions. And the developers refuse to say anything about what the bloody hell they're going to do about the mess!

As someone else said earlier in the thread, I'm waiting for the month subscription to expire and then I'm gone. By then I'll have decided which game to migrate to.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-12-24 14:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Altrue wrote:
[quote=POKER ALICE]

And honestly, currently drone users are complaining a lot for the most little bit of change about their favorite toy, exactly like an old man locked into his own old routine and the comfort of stagnation.


Yes, I agree. Clearly CCP doesn't want a player to ever get up from their desk while in a mission allowing the player's drones to do the work. No, indeed, they want more player participation in the form of pressing the F1 key to initiate launching missiles from the player's Tengu every couple of minutes. Huge difference.....huge!

That CCP expects the player to be at their desk the entire time for such a mind-numbingly boring activity after the 1000th time you've ran the same mission speaks volumes towards the devs' sadistic natures.

Don't ban me, bro!
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#110 - 2012-12-24 14:51:05 UTC
Used Valks in hubs, only one got shot EVER, just have to make your ship a bigger threat (more DPS) than your drones.

Pretty easy... unless your flying a Rattler I guess.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#111 - 2012-12-24 14:59:25 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I'm no great drone user or mission runner, I mostly rat for my ISK in lowsec. I prefer autocannons and artillery. But since Retribution hit I've lost about every drone I ever launched from my Hurricane. I'm probably doing it wrong anyway, but with my playstyle drones just arent usefull to add some simple DPS or go after closely orbiting frigates anymore.

I reverted back to Warrior I's, because they are cheaper chaff then T2 or utility drones. They went from an attack method to a panic button as far as I am concerned. I enjoy the new AI because it makes missioning / ratting with a few people more interesting. To bad it impacts drones so such a degree I have a hard time taking them serious as an offensive method.


I'd like to retract this statement. I have been doing it wrong and I am now on the side of people that say HTFU and adapt. By using them differently and more actively, like switching them out for another one once they recieve aggro, and keeping them safe once large amounts of NPC small fries appear. I went with armour instead of shields, fitted a sensor booster + tracking computer in the free midslots, so now I hit frigs with turrets and increase DPS on large stuff with T2 drones. This way drones are still a compliment to my turret setup (needing some micromanagement now, but that's ok) and it works very well with the new patch, though I can't speak for those using actual drone-based boats.
Ginger Barbarella
#112 - 2012-12-24 16:20:50 UTC
As others have already stated, I've been micro-managing my drones at close range (30k or less), and stopped using Sentries. My loss of lights has been negligible (three in last four days or so), but then the fix hasn't been fixed yet. Blink Once CCP rolls out the bug fix to their AI fix, I'll be able to better see the result. For the time being I've shelved my drone boats (Gila, Myrm, etc) for the most part and started leaning more heavily on projectile and hybrid boats.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-12-24 21:31:23 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Mund Richard wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
My Garde II's have an optimal of 50km. You must be doing something wrong.
57
Have I won anything?

4x faction Omni's? Or am I missing something for that?


I'm not using omni's, that number is from skills.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#114 - 2012-12-24 22:22:19 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I'd like to retract this statement. I have been doing it wrong and I am now on the side of people that say HTFU and adapt. By using them differently and more actively, like switching them out for another one once they recieve aggro, and keeping them safe once large amounts of NPC small fries appear. I went with armour instead of shields, fitted a sensor booster + tracking computer in the free midslots, so now I hit frigs with turrets and increase DPS on large stuff with T2 drones. This way drones are still a compliment to my turret setup (needing some micromanagement now, but that's ok) and it works very well with the new patch, though I can't speak for those using actual drone-based boats.

Yes, well that's the thing isn't it, when large amounts of NPC small fries appear the drone-based boats have a bit of trouble using what they're based on.

Should've trained some turrets.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#115 - 2012-12-24 23:11:36 UTC
Quote:

I'm affraid but the so-used argument of the persecuted minority won't work here. I mean, CCP created drones as it's their game. Why would they hate them ? Nobody forced them to create the drone weapon system.




No, you dont understand. Ive given in. I am a missile pilot now so that I will never be a member of the "persecuted minority" again. As far as the drone weapon system, well...its not really a weapon system anymore. Drones are now an expendable asset deployed for getting the heck out of Dodge. Yeah, Ive read the posts about the brave Domi pilots killing everything by micro managing their drones but thats just silly. Much better off to get in a missile boat, point and click your way to riches.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#116 - 2012-12-24 23:14:29 UTC
(A) Quit the game




Quote:

You know, I think this is becoming a pet peeve of mine. CCP should really start banning people who tell people to quit the game. Population of this game is small enough as it is, and a huge percentage of that population is alts anyhow.




For those who may have missed it like this fellow did, option (A) was a sarcastic remark. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#117 - 2012-12-24 23:24:12 UTC
Quote:

CCP didn't nerf drones. All they did was add a teeny weeny challenge in using drones. If that bump in the road is too much for you, there are plenty of games that require no challenge or use of brain cells.



Look, Im not going to argue with ya and I dont even disagree with you completely.

1. Yes, you can still do missions with drones.

2. Is it worthwhile to do missions with drones now? Certainly not.

I dont have a problem with a bit of challenge. If it truly is the AFKers CCP wants to stop, then why not make the drones completely stupid? Make them so that they have to be sent after each and every target just like any other weapon system. Seems simple to me, but instead we get this ridiculous AI that eliminates a whole series of ships for effectively doing missions at an isk per hour rate that is viable. That my friend is not only a nerf, it is a death knell for that whole PVE philosophy.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#118 - 2012-12-24 23:28:51 UTC
There is a solution to this, just put **** tons of EWAR in your utility high slots on your drone boats instead of pea shooters.

If you are running 4-8 NOS on an enemy NPC, they will likely not shoot your drones. Thats been my experience after testing these changes.

Maybe I am wrong and got lucky.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
POKER ALICE
Moonshine Monks Gentlemans Club
#119 - 2012-12-24 23:35:12 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
There is a solution to this, just put **** tons of EWAR in your utility high slots on your drone boats instead of pea shooters.

If you are running 4-8 NOS on an enemy NPC, they will likely not shoot your drones. Thats been my experience after testing these changes.

Maybe I am wrong and got lucky.



Well, my Domis used large blasters. Not exactly pea shooters. Better off imo to just get in a gunship or a missile boat now. Keep lights to deal with the scrams and webs. Adapt is the message of the day and so I have. Just hate to see that faithful old Domi set in the hangar knowing what it used to be. Now its just mind numbingly painful to do anything with. Id rather watch grass grow or paint dry than to try and do a mission with it.

"If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it. And if you dont deserve what you have and we cant make you lose it, we will ask CCP to nerf it"
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#120 - 2012-12-24 23:37:11 UTC
POKER ALICE wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:
There is a solution to this, just put **** tons of EWAR in your utility high slots on your drone boats instead of pea shooters.

If you are running 4-8 NOS on an enemy NPC, they will likely not shoot your drones. Thats been my experience after testing these changes.

Maybe I am wrong and got lucky.



Well, my Domis used large blasters. Not exactly pea shooters. Better off imo to just get in a gunship or a missile boat now. Keep lights to deal with the scrams and webs. Adapt is the message of the day and so I have. Just hate to see that faithful old Domi set in the hangar knowing what it used to be. Now its just mind numbingly painful to do anything with. Id rather watch grass grow or paint dry than to try and do a mission with it.


Drop some armor plates on it and go pwn people. Domi still shines amazingly as a PVP ship.

In fact drones got a buff in lo sec pvp now that sentry guns are no longer shooting at them.

Things are only impossible until they are not.