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EVE Online: Retribution 1.0 Feedback

First post
Author
Tangsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#861 - 2012-12-06 14:44:01 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
It's time and effort spent that might be better spent on something else.
Or removing long time, beloved features on a regular basis? That is removing with no replacement. How can these be "iterations" when refactoring becomes removing?
It's perfectly normal for a long-lived game like EVE to have to remove some features at some point in its life. I even explained this in a devblog in 2009 http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=1777 (start from "Why do we constantly update EVE? "Why can't you just keep it the way it is?"").


Removing useful, well liked features without a working replacement is not an 'Update'. And by 'working replacement' I mean working (from the user's perspective) as well if not better than the function that was removed. Seems there should have been more thought put into this after the wonderful ship spinning debacle. There should especially have been some very serious thought put into this after the Unified Inventory debacle. If you can't make it better, don't just remove it, or break it. And then claim it's just because EVE is an ever changing game. That sounds disingenuous.

Removing the Jukebox might have been easier for you than leaving it in, but at what price? Loss of a measure of goodwill from customers, because it makes you look out of touch, or worse.

And in the grand scheme of things, compared to the many thousands and thousands of man hours you put into this expansion, would it have really taken that much to leave the jukebox in? What, maybe one half of one percent or less of the work involved in rolling out the entire expansion?

I know you put a huge amount of effort into this expansion, and it's too bad you're getting so much flac for so many things. But seriously, put the jukebox back asap. And stop removing features that we like, are working correctly, and make the game more enjoyable for us, the customers.

Regards
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#862 - 2012-12-06 14:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Nene Ryuseika wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Nene Ryuseika wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

FYI, I have only lost one drone so far, and I have a stockpile of them. They are expendable - my primary weapons of choice have always been rails and drones are just a bit of extra dps to keep the AI busy.


Then you are obviously not flying a drone boat. A Thron pilot can't really comment on an issue affecting Domis and Ishtars.





What makes you think I'm not flying a drone boat? One with railguns?



Because a DRONE BOAT is a ship who's primary DPS is DRONES.


not sure if trolling, or just stupid.jpg


Or maybe just doing it differently to you.

Nice work on the personal attack, though. Very mature. Maybe if you're so mad you should just put another half a billion of your isk on my head. It did nothing last time, but maybe this time will be different.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Nene Ryuseika
The Ryuseika Group
#863 - 2012-12-06 14:57:59 UTC
oh and Remiel, stop liking all my posts, that really makes it look like your primary intention is just stirring crap

I prescribe less forums and more ingame time for you, so you might begin to understand what we're all talking about.
GaiusAlexander
Starcorp Heavy Industries
#864 - 2012-12-06 15:08:30 UTC
Are the salvage drones supposed to auto salvage or do I have to tell them to salvage each wreck? Couldn't find a setting to "salvage all" or the like. Right now they salvage one wreck then come back and orbit my ship. Saw where a DEV said they were aware of a Salvage drone issue and that may be it. If there is something I am missing, though, please let me know.

Thanks.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#865 - 2012-12-06 15:16:17 UTC
Nene Ryuseika wrote:
oh and Remiel, stop liking all my posts, that really makes it look like your primary intention is just stirring crap

I prescribe less forums and more ingame time for you, so you might begin to understand what we're all talking about.


Maybe I'm just getting my half billion's worth Blink

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Nene Ryuseika
The Ryuseika Group
#866 - 2012-12-06 15:16:54 UTC
GaiusAlexander wrote:
Are the salvage drones supposed to auto salvage or do I have to tell them to salvage each wreck? Couldn't find a setting to "salvage all" or the like. Right now they salvage one wreck then come back and orbit my ship. Saw where a DEV said they were aware of a Salvage drone issue and that may be it. If there is something I am missing, though, please let me know.

Thanks.



They can be set to salvage with no wreaks targeted then auto salvage everything on thier own - but only if those wreaks were your own. (and you stayed on grid) It's stated in the description that it works like that.

but that seems totally contradictory to giving the Noctis a drone bay and saying so in the same breath as "oh we're giving you salvage drones!"
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#867 - 2012-12-06 15:34:08 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
I know guys, instead of giving constructive feedback, why don't we keep insulting the developers who probably worked ungodly hours and neglected their families so that we could play a video game...

Chill out, wait a week and i'm sure they will answer your questions in due course.


Yeah, sure wait a week.. it's not like there are timers in game that don't wait on the Dev's to fix problems they introduced.

CCP isn't a startup... there is little evidence that a large number of Dev's are working "ungodly" hours. If they are - CCP is a screwed up company.

KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#868 - 2012-12-06 15:39:35 UTC
Either it's new or I hadn't noticed before, the Show condensed combat log switch - for losses the Name column shows my name, which seems totally useless. Shouldn't it show the Final Blow name?
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#869 - 2012-12-06 15:47:19 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Either it's new or I hadn't noticed before, the Show condensed combat log switch - for losses the Name column shows my name, which seems totally useless. Shouldn't it show the Final Blow name?


it's probably always been like this. it makes more sense in the corporation kill reports list

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Rhamascus Zagar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#870 - 2012-12-06 15:48:38 UTC
Give something new to the Black Ops, they're supposed to be for 'Infiltration' and 'Espionage' and yet they still can't even warp cloaked like coverts. We're just looking for something a little extra, even bonuses would be better now (like Widow, cause now they have new skills and mods that can easily water down ECMs now.. :/ ) No wonder Vic died in your trailer vid :P!
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#871 - 2012-12-06 16:00:03 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Either it's new or I hadn't noticed before, the Show condensed combat log switch - for losses the Name column shows my name, which seems totally useless. Shouldn't it show the Final Blow name?


it's probably always been like this. it makes more sense in the corporation kill reports list


This is for me. What do I care about management?

Big smile


Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#872 - 2012-12-06 16:00:06 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

No. The whole purpose of WHs is higher risk and higher reward. You think lvl4 AI is hard? You really haven't fought the sleepers yet.


You dont heard the message, you voice of CCP troll ? HTFU and bye.
Korinne
The Partisan Brigade
#873 - 2012-12-06 16:00:46 UTC
Something really needs to be done about these huge unscalable circles and halos. If you're in any real fight you can't see crap because of them, and after playing with it some, I'm convinced those halos don't tell you diddly poop you didn't already know. Also the targeting circles, they break completely if you have a ship w/ anything resembling high scan res.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#874 - 2012-12-06 16:16:49 UTC
I like the new shield resistance module icons. However the armor ones could use some work. They all look the same.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Matham Gwynne
Rocky Mountain Twins
#875 - 2012-12-06 16:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Matham Gwynne
Tippia wrote:
Urgg Boolean wrote:
This change affects a lot more than just missions. Incursions should be affected too.
No, it doesn't change anything about incursions. They already have the new AI.

Quote:
I remember someone saying that if you use drones in wormholes, you need to use T1 and bring LOTS of spares. Is that what it's gonna come down to?
No, because people quickly realised what else you could do to make the Sleepers hate you more than they hated your drones.

Ewar, remote support, and just a watchful eye should keep them safe enough.


You do realize that the devs asked for feedback on whether the new AI was too aggressive or not, right? Bitching at people (as you have been doing) for doing exactly what was asked for, seems a little odd to me.

As for EWAR, etc., with drone boats: Yes, that is a possibility. Fit a shield transporter on your Rattlesnake, and, if your light drone is about 8 km or less away, you can rep its shield as it takes damage. Assuming only one drone is taking damage, you don't mind reducing the engagement range of your sentry drones (requires link augments), or eliminating your (admittedly pathetic) missile DPS, since these things all take high slots, or EWAR in mid (where you need shield and drone tracking already). And ignoring, of course, that rep range is so short that recalling a light drone takes less time than locking it and firing up the rep. And you need both EWAR and Rep on the same Rattlesnake, with limited high slots that you already need for other things.

On the other hand, I LOVE the idea of making the Rattlesnake into a "mini carrier". Dump the missile slots, give it a bonus to EWAR and/or Rep range, etc. Rely completely on drone DPS with the thing. Really make it into something cool, not just a Domi with a massive overtank and micro-DPS from missile launchers. I already love the look on the thing, now make it badass in that manner and it'll be my go-to ship again!

The point isn't that "whaaa, my Rattlesnake sucks because I can't play". It's:

A) Devs asked for feedback
B) My Machariel is now so much better than my Rattlesnake, on the exact same missions, that it's ridiculous, even with more skills points in drones than in turrets. Twice the missions in half the time, where it used to be just slightly faster, and the R's overtank made certain encounters (Damsel, for example) more relaxed, which made up the difference.

Rattlesnake and Machariel are both pirate faction battleships. Both used to work beautifully for me, and be quite fun to fly, on L4 missions. Now the Rattlesnake is annoyingly complex to fly, expensive if rats gets excited about light drones, and (because of all the "call them back home again" cycles) very slow to complete missions.

Not at all catastrophic. But definitely annoying.

Maybe I'll sell the Rattlesnake and get a Nightmare instead. Just for the heck of it.

Either way, I can still fly the missions. But I still think the AI change was overdone by a bit. It's not a bad thing, just too much of it.
Arch Convivitor
Tempest Freelancers
#876 - 2012-12-06 16:21:43 UTC
Jack' Sparrow wrote:

Anyhow, I sinceley hope that you reconsider the following issues which I strongly support along with many others.

(1) - Reconsider the nerf and the effect it's had on all HML ships in the game and read all the posts about it by other players.
(2) - Make NPC's not attack drones as hard as they are at the moment. So far this has made all drone boats obsolete against NPC's and also made it difficult for Golem pilots using torpedo's or even cruise missiles to kill frigate rats once the drones are all dead. It's also made T2 drones obsolete in PVE for the same matter unless you like throwing away vast amounts of ISK.
(3) - Reconsider revamping the Jukebox and putting it back into the game. If you insist in not doing this then at least put a download link up on eve-files for all the soundtracks so that we can add them to our personal players and not just give us the same comments about using Sound Cloud.
(4) - Modify the gate jumping sound as it sounds terribly tinny and cheap.
(5) - Fix the high pitch screaching sound when zoomed in close to your ship.
(6) - Change the bounty system so that the whole of EVE isn't wanted. I went to Jita last night and for not doing anything apart from docking I was given a bounty (on my other character). This is just pure nonsense and is in need of changes and fast.
(7) - Fix sounds in general, though some are OK others are just dreadful as mentioned by other players.
(8) - Remove the nerf from the Hurricane, it's way to severe.
(9) - Add more tracks into the high sec playlist, gets boring just listening to the same thing all the time when there are all of those great tracks out there that we always used to listen to.



An excellent list JS. I would add to it:

(10) - Return the functionality of the ship cargo inventory view so that if left open it automatically switches to station inventory when docking. - as it is now you have added several clicks when dumping ore after a mining run :(
GaiusAlexander
Starcorp Heavy Industries
#877 - 2012-12-06 16:35:39 UTC
Nene Ryuseika wrote:
GaiusAlexander wrote:
Are the salvage drones supposed to auto salvage or do I have to tell them to salvage each wreck? Couldn't find a setting to "salvage all" or the like. Right now they salvage one wreck then come back and orbit my ship. Saw where a DEV said they were aware of a Salvage drone issue and that may be it. If there is something I am missing, though, please let me know.

Thanks.



They can be set to salvage with no wreaks targeted then auto salvage everything on thier own - but only if those wreaks were your own. (and you stayed on grid) It's stated in the description that it works like that.

but that seems totally contradictory to giving the Noctis a drone bay and saying so in the same breath as "oh we're giving you salvage drones!"



Has anyone got that to work? It just tells me there are no wrecks to salvage (though I am surrounded by them). I have to lock and tell drones to salvage each one. Perhaps that is the issue the DEV is talking about.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#878 - 2012-12-06 16:42:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
@ CCP - The ORE frigate is a great looking ship with great speed and a nice warp strength bonus but do you think it's fit for purpose?

You claim it's an entry level ship but it involves someone sinking over a week of training time to get it to its full potential. After a player chooses to move onto a better mining ship, all those skill points practically go to waste. Sad

To make the ship viable to new and old players, please either increase its gas mining bonus or change the mining upgrades to also affect the gas mining amount.

That is all Bear
Arch Convivitor
Tempest Freelancers
#879 - 2012-12-06 16:43:15 UTC
Arch Convivitor wrote:


(10) - Return the functionality of the ship cargo inventory view so that if left open it automatically switches to station inventory when docking. - as it is now you have added several clicks when dumping ore after a mining run :(



I just ran a test and apparently it is only the Mac client that is having this issue. Unfortunately that is the machine I use the most.
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#880 - 2012-12-06 16:56:15 UTC
Why was I the only member of the Boob Brigade who was had a forced re-render of their portrait to remove the sideboob? I demand an explanation...or a large sum of isk...or a hug (to help stop the tears) or something lol