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Does the bit about the weapons flag also apply if the bubble owner has already left the grid/system? Could imagine some ways to use this mechanic to make dictor pilots placing defensive bubbles fall behind when travelling (escaping) with their gang...

If you only have NPC aggro no you will not stay forever. You will stay on grid until your 5 minutes NPC flag expires and then disappear. If you were not tackled you would ewarp off grid and stay wherever you land for 5 minutes until the NPC timer is gone and then you will also disappear.

This is exactly how it has worked previously with the exception of the NPC timer now being 5 minutes.

The changes making it possible to give pvp timers to people who have already logged off however is new and made of an enormous amount of win. Big shout out to the teams at CCP.

well, if for any reason a industrial ship(heck even a slow combat ship) disconnects on a gate(or enroute to a gate, or departing a gate), with those rules, it will be "massively penalising", a blocade runner may be able to warp off to a safe and MAY be lucky enough to survive the non-agression (1minute?) timer before being scanned and given a PVP timer.

But anything that requires mwd to stay safe will be dead, I presume gatecloak works as today, so after 1 minute the ship decloaks, and the ppl at the gate have 10seconds to flag it... easy.
After that they have forever to kill it, as long as they can get 1 shot off every 15 minutes, they dont even have to keep scram on it, since e-warp is only attempted once, local will tell them if the victim logs back in.

Im sure you know there are alot of unstable issues with jumping, im fairly new and have had my share of unforseen events after jumping (lag, crash, etc)

Also how long is this safety logoff timer ? and is it stopped on a successful target lock, or an attempted target lock ?

No... you will stay on field until:

a.) your non-renewable NPC timer ends (5 minutes)....
b.) until your ship explodes, and your capsule's NPC timer ends...
c.) if you happen to be attacked by a player before your (5 min) NPC timer ends, you will stay in space until 15minutes after the player quits shooting you...

1.) What requires an MWD to stay safe?? that doesn't make a lot of sense to me! Sure, MWD's help you stay safe when active, but if you legitimately dc, an MWD wont' save you now!!!! The only thing that saves a player dc'ing into a gate camp is a high amount of HP so they can survive until they despawn.... which they can no longer do....

2.) They will release more info on the safety logoff timer... my impression is it's a tool that allows you to despawn your ship while still logged in, thereby making sure your ship despawns safely... My assumption is it will take 1 minute base, up to 5 minutes if you have an NPC timer, and up to 15 minutes if you have a PvP timer...

3.) While unstable clients do occasionally occur upon jumping, for the most part jumping is fine (just be careful after every patch until you know it's stable). If you are taking a slow-moving ship through a dangerous area of space (nullsec/lowsec), then make sure you are on a stable client, use scouts, and don't warp gate to gate... then you'll be alright... People, especially in big ships, purposely dc to "save their ship" far, far more often than people legitimately dc....

Truthfully, moving a freighter (the most awkward since it warps real slow and cannot cloak) doesn't change much... if you currently web to warp it, you have to deal with a 15 minute extendable PvP timer.... if you don't, it takes 50s to get it into warp.... during which time someone can come and attack it...

First off, you CAN eject from a t3... just as long as you don't have a weapons timer....

If you don't want the skill loss, then don't PvP in a t3.....

You have a choice... shoot your opponent and be locked in your ship.... or don't shoot them, and be able to eject...

Can you elaborate what your suggesting here... I don't think I understand what you mean...

These changes as presented are basically all pure ****, insane over-reaching which excessively punishes common cloaking playstyles and players with marginal connections or real lives because CCP can't be assed to come up with actual solutions.

As someone who both has a marginal connection and yet has been frequently frustrated by ******** logoffski abuse, I'd still rather they back completely out of this heap of **** than overstep this far in the realm of assfucking cloaking playstyles, players with connection issues, or players with A Need To Logoff.

At the very least, you should be able to initiate a safe logoff while cloaked. This still leaves the 'if you DC unaggressed, cloaked, in deep space, with no hostiles on or even near your grid (i.e. in one of the most tactically secure positions in the game), but a poopsocking prober is about, enjoy your solo lossmail to autocannon Cheetah' vulnerability. It also leaves the 'if you DC while ratting then I mean basically get ******, if the rats don't kill you before you disappear then some roaming gang that wasn't even in the region when your connection dropped will' opening.

That is to say, the changes would still be pure **** even with significant rebalancing because this path, the path of shrugging and announcing loudly "**** everyone without a flawless connection and perfectly stable PC" that they've sanely been avoiding for years, leads nowhere.

15 seconds is plenty of time. If a player in a frigate jumps into your battleship that takes 20 seconds to lock them, they don't need to control-q to be safe do they? They could just warp off. 15 seconds is more than the align time of most ships in EVE, and the ones that can't align in less than 15 seconds certainly take far less than 15 seconds to be locked by anything short of a capital ship. If your camp can't lock a target in 15 seconds you're doing it pretty wrong.




Do you understand what the new mechanics do? There's zero reason to have a 60 second timer under the proposed mechanics because as soon as your ship is aggressed your timer essentially becomes infinite. That's the whole reason for the change. Anyone who jumps into a gatecamp and logoffskis can be aggressed in well under 60 seconds, at which point the camp has as long to kill the target as they require, since the aggro flag continually resets as long as the target is being engaged.

A 60-second timer for un-aggressed ship disappearance is far too long under the new mechanics. Here's an example: say you're sitting in a safespot cloaked and want to log out. Under the proposed mechanics, you either quit the game and stay vulnerable in space for a good ~30+ seconds after your ewarp completes or you need to decloak and sit there for a full 60 seconds with no modules running before you can "manually" disappear your ship.

In either case, hostile probers have more than enough time to scan you out, warp in, and flag your ship before it disappears from space. Since your response will probably be "then don't log out with hostile probes out," consider that not all systems in EVE are very large (many are small enough to easily cover with 1-2 sets of probes, meaning there's nowhere to log off inconspicuously) and it's not always possible to change systems in order to log.

Basically, if you're in a system, and hostiles camp the outgates (so you can't go somewhere else to log) and have probes out, it becomes impossible for you to log off (or DC) without losing your ship, even if you log in a safespot and are un-aggressed. This is not really acceptable game design.

If you shorten the timer for un-aggressed ships, though, it becomes way less possible to probe out and aggress someone who logs in a safespot without aggression. By cutting the timer to 10-15 seconds you leave plenty of time for people who attempt to ctrl-q as a way to avoid combat to be aggressed while eliminating the "you can never log off" problem.


edit:




You can't do this in the case of an involuntary DC. In the case of ratting or fighting and getting DCed, whatever, **** happens, but there's no way that the game should turn you into a free kill if you safed and cloaked while unaggressed. That's just stupid.

Can you summarize in 5 sentences or less why you are raging your balls off in this thread?