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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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Doddy
Excidium.
#1001 - 2012-10-11 08:03:53 UTC
Camera Drone wrote:
Mizhir wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


Tippia always comes up with flippiant answers that have very little basis in reality.
This 15 minute NPC timer means death for any ratter who has an internet outage.



If I remember correctly ships will warp out to a "safe area" if you disconnect, unless you are already pointed.


rats point, you know. especially sleepers


Yeah, so? Why should an npcer be any more protected from a disconnect than a pvper?
Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#1002 - 2012-10-11 10:51:55 UTC


Isn't the point of this that players who are suspects and criminals are at a hypothetical disadvantage against a gang of do gooders, however the difficulty would actually be rounding up a posse to take on the criminals and then getting to the person in time to dish out justice?

Based off CCP Punkturis' hint as well I reckon you'll see in local chat someone's name/icon change to show they are a legal target to all players. So you could actually get gangs of "Police" roaming high sec, checking local for a suspect name and then calling out in local asking if anyone needs help.

Realistically if you catch someone out and you and you're mate are like at Amarr Planet VII, Asteroid Belt 2 or whatever the only way you'll get instantly attacked is if someone was already there or a gang of Space Paladins were sitting in space ready to warp to anyone who needs help.

Hell it's even easy to do:

Fleet Name: SPACE POLICE
How it works:

Roam High Sec looking for suspect tags in local.
When you see one ask for person to shout out in local
Invite them to join fleet
Warp to fleet member, kill bad guy
Kick saved person
Move on

Of course this leads to potential traps... which would be even better emergent game play. Roving privately formed SPACE POLICE gangs killing criminals, until the Criminals start setting ambushes for the SPACE POLICE.

Personally I think there are a lot of opportunities for people to be on the groundfloor getting this stuff to work and being known as the first SPACE SHERIFF or whatever.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Noslen Nosilla
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate
United Interests
#1003 - 2012-10-11 11:19:21 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Noslen Nosilla wrote:
What happens between members of the same corp doing inter corp duels for fun? Twisted
Do they get concorded?Cry
Shot at by gate guns?Cry

No penalties for shooting your own corp mates (excluding NPC corps obviously) apart from whatever consequence your corp mates will provide.




So can we not remove the aggro timer on this?

Be polite.

Be professional.

But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
amidaros veleta
Unfortunate Soldiers
#1004 - 2012-10-11 13:18:27 UTC
was ccp bought by blizzard.. because this game is becomming more like wow... First can flippings gone, then mining barge buff, then wardecs were badly screwed and now this.
I started eve in the deepend and love the game because its hard and unforgiving. seems they are making it easier for the new players to make more money.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#1005 - 2012-10-11 15:02:13 UTC
You know, I've always wondered about this: why does shooting a capsule result in bigger consequences than shooting shipsQuestion
If you pod a capsuleer, you've only "killed" an immortal.
If you destroy a ship, you sometimes kill thousands of mortals.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1006 - 2012-10-11 15:30:50 UTC
amidaros veleta wrote:
was ccp bought by blizzard.. because this game is becomming more like wow... First can flippings gone, then mining barge buff, then wardecs were badly screwed and now this.
I started eve in the deepend and love the game because its hard and unforgiving. seems they are making it easier for the new players to make more money.


Making it easier for new players to make money...much giggling there.
And when the new AI kicks in, please explain how that will INCREASE income.
Tsukinosuke
Id Est
RAZOR Alliance
#1007 - 2012-10-11 17:03:19 UTC
•The new criminal flagging system should be easy for players to understand ---> F
•The new criminal flagging system should be easy to developers to work with and unlikely to break ---> F
•The new criminal flagging system should not impose a significant performance load ---> F



remove ridiculous NPC, WEAPON, PVP flags,
set a RED(who has negative security status) is really RED by expanding CRIMINAL flag to lifetime till get security status neutral/positive back,
remove Nullsec and WH CONCORD security penalty,
remove some ridiculous consequences like "can not initiate warp/jump/dock/".

thus it should be an "IMPROVED" thing..





p.s. if you cant understand clear, let me know, so i will show it on a picture.

anti-antagonist "not a friend of enemy of antagonist"
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#1008 - 2012-10-11 17:22:22 UTC
So, your telling me I have to wait a full minute to pull my HIC out of my alts carrier to point the titan they jumped instead of bridged with?

Between this and "can sell my kill rights" I think I might be done with EVE. :(

Leave my game alone!!!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1009 - 2012-10-11 18:12:02 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
So, your telling me I have to wait a full minute to pull my HIC out of my alts carrier to point the titan they jumped instead of bridged with?

Between this and "can sell my kill rights" I think I might be done with EVE. :(

Leave my game alone!!!


You only have to wait the full minute if you have the weapons flag (because you are currently shooting your guns).
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1010 - 2012-10-11 20:34:18 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec
This really isn't a good idea since it brings those invulnerable logis back stronger than ever. At least before, you could try to chase logis away — neutral or not — but this just makes them plain untouchable and you can pile on as many as you like to make the LE participant untouchable as well.

Really, if you're in a corp, they can just bring more guns and active disruption to the party — ECM will work wonders and will enter the newcomer in an LE of his own, with all the personal risk that entails (minus “because of Falcon”).

I can understand your unwillingness to copy LEs, but really, that's a much smaller headache than adding untouchable ships to the fight. So really: disallow them too (giving them the same S-flags as everyone else) or start thinking up ways of copying LE flags… Straight
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1011 - 2012-10-11 22:16:06 UTC
I posted this in another thread and got no answer.

Let me see if I understand the new system properly.
A griefer corp has say, 10 combat ships with maybe 100 logi's, 10 assigned to each combat ship.

They also have ONE alt who has kill rights on all the combat ships.
The griefer corp warps the 10 combat and 100 logi's to the Jita undock.

The alt undocks, and activates the kill rights on the 10 combat pilots, making them all Suspects.
Now, everyone else on the undock goes mental and starts attacking the combat ships.
The combat ships do NOT shoot first, avoiding the Criminal flags, and invoking a Concord response.
The logi's all start repping and immediately gain a Suspect flag, and able to be shot. But unless everyone on the undock is organized with neuts and jammers, it is going to be almost impossible to break the tanks of any ship in that griefer corp.

Meantime, anyone who has actually attacked a Suspect combat ship is dragged into a Limited Engagement with the Suspect ship they aggressed. If they stick around, they will all die, unless they get organized within the time it takes for the combat ship to blow them out of the sky.

Do I have the mechanics understood properly?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1012 - 2012-10-11 22:56:08 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I posted this in another thread and got no answer.

Let me see if I understand the new system properly.
A griefer corp has say, 10 combat ships with maybe 100 logi's, 10 assigned to each combat ship.

They also have ONE alt who has kill rights on all the combat ships.
The griefer corp warps the 10 combat and 100 logi's to the Jita undock.

The alt undocks, and activates the kill rights on the 10 combat pilots, making them all Suspects.
Now, everyone else on the undock goes mental and starts attacking the combat ships.
The combat ships do NOT shoot first, avoiding the Criminal flags, and invoking NO Concord response.
The logi's all start repping and immediately gain a Suspect flag, and able to be shot. But unless everyone on the undock is organized with neuts and jammers, it is going to be almost impossible to break the tanks of any ship in that griefer corp.

Meantime, anyone who has actually attacked a Suspect combat ship is dragged into a Limited Engagement with the Suspect ship they aggressed. If they stick around, they will all die, unless they get organized within the time it takes for the combat ship to blow them out of the sky.

Do I have the mechanics understood properly?


I corrected on mistype....
Overall you have it right... here's a few points:

1.) The only people that those griefers can attack are the pilots that attacked them first...
2.) The 10 griefer combat ships can NOT focus fire, unless someone is dumb enough to simultaneously aggress ALL 10 of them..
3.) The griefers probably would just steal from a neutral alt's can to get a suspect flag... why bother with killrights?

I really don't see any problems here?? Do you??

Also, this is a very convoluted way to get kills... and you'll only kill those crazy enough to attack first... And if they do this often enough... someone is going to counter them with an organized fleet.... so, what exactly is the problem???

p.s. If you really want to use the suspect flag to get kills on wanna-be hero's, see this post!
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#1013 - 2012-10-11 23:07:47 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I posted this in another thread and got no answer.

Let me see if I understand the new system properly.
A griefer corp has say, 10 combat ships with maybe 100 logi's, 10 assigned to each combat ship.

They also have ONE alt who has kill rights on all the combat ships.
The griefer corp warps the 10 combat and 100 logi's to the Jita undock.

The alt undocks, and activates the kill rights on the 10 combat pilots, making them all Suspects.
Now, everyone else on the undock goes mental and starts attacking the combat ships.
The combat ships do NOT shoot first, avoiding the Criminal flags, and invoking NO Concord response.
The logi's all start repping and immediately gain a Suspect flag, and able to be shot. But unless everyone on the undock is organized with neuts and jammers, it is going to be almost impossible to break the tanks of any ship in that griefer corp.

Meantime, anyone who has actually attacked a Suspect combat ship is dragged into a Limited Engagement with the Suspect ship they aggressed. If they stick around, they will all die, unless they get organized within the time it takes for the combat ship to blow them out of the sky.

Do I have the mechanics understood properly?


I corrected on mistype....
Overall you have it right... here's a few points:

1.) The only people that those griefers can attack are the pilots that attacked them first...
2.) The 10 griefer combat ships can NOT focus fire, unless someone is dumb enough to simultaneously aggress ALL 10 of them..
3.) The griefers probably would just steal from a neutral alt's can to get a suspect flag... why bother with killrights?

I really don't see any problems here?? Do you??

Also, this is a very convoluted way to get kills... and you'll only kill those crazy enough to attack first... And if they do this often enough... someone is going to counter them with an organized fleet.... so, what exactly is the problem???

p.s. If you really want to use the suspect flag to get kills on wanna-be hero's, see this post!



Sigh.....I just read your post on the the other thread.
Crimewatch blog has been out for less than a week, and already massive holes have been punched into the concepts.
Yes, I can see that the griefers will outsmart CCP, and very very quickly the Crimewatch will become a joke.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1014 - 2012-10-11 23:21:21 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I posted this in another thread and got no answer.

Let me see if I understand the new system properly.
A griefer corp has say, 10 combat ships with maybe 100 logi's, 10 assigned to each combat ship.

They also have ONE alt who has kill rights on all the combat ships.
The griefer corp warps the 10 combat and 100 logi's to the Jita undock.

The alt undocks, and activates the kill rights on the 10 combat pilots, making them all Suspects.
Now, everyone else on the undock goes mental and starts attacking the combat ships.
The combat ships do NOT shoot first, avoiding the Criminal flags, and invoking NO Concord response.
The logi's all start repping and immediately gain a Suspect flag, and able to be shot. But unless everyone on the undock is organized with neuts and jammers, it is going to be almost impossible to break the tanks of any ship in that griefer corp.

Meantime, anyone who has actually attacked a Suspect combat ship is dragged into a Limited Engagement with the Suspect ship they aggressed. If they stick around, they will all die, unless they get organized within the time it takes for the combat ship to blow them out of the sky.

Do I have the mechanics understood properly?


I corrected on mistype....
Overall you have it right... here's a few points:

1.) The only people that those griefers can attack are the pilots that attacked them first...
2.) The 10 griefer combat ships can NOT focus fire, unless someone is dumb enough to simultaneously aggress ALL 10 of them..
3.) The griefers probably would just steal from a neutral alt's can to get a suspect flag... why bother with killrights?

I really don't see any problems here?? Do you??

Also, this is a very convoluted way to get kills... and you'll only kill those crazy enough to attack first... And if they do this often enough... someone is going to counter them with an organized fleet.... so, what exactly is the problem???

p.s. If you really want to use the suspect flag to get kills on wanna-be hero's, see this post!



Sigh.....I just read your post on the the other thread.
Crimewatch blog has been out for less than a week, and already massive holes have been punched into the concepts.
Yes, I can see that the griefers will outsmart CCP, and very very quickly the Crimewatch will become a joke.


It's not a joke... And the trap I suggested can backfire on "griefers" extremely, extremely easily.... resulting in the griefer losing their RR BS and the bait ship....

Just like your Griefers with logi support can easily backfire on the griefers, resulting in a SHITLOAD of dead logistics ships!!!
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#1015 - 2012-10-12 03:01:56 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
So, your telling me I have to wait a full minute to pull my HIC out of my alts carrier to point the titan they jumped instead of bridged with?

Between this and "can sell my kill rights" I think I might be done with EVE. :(

Leave my game alone!!!


You only have to wait the full minute if you have the weapons flag (because you are currently shooting your guns).


Why would I not be shooting? Bait fleet warps in. Engages. Drop triage. They jump bridge whatever to us.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1016 - 2012-10-12 04:40:46 UTC
Dread Operative wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
So, your telling me I have to wait a full minute to pull my HIC out of my alts carrier to point the titan they jumped instead of bridged with?

Between this and "can sell my kill rights" I think I might be done with EVE. :(

Leave my game alone!!!


You only have to wait the full minute if you have the weapons flag (because you are currently shooting your guns).


Why would I not be shooting? Bait fleet warps in. Engages. Drop triage. They jump bridge whatever to us.


Hold fire if you think they are bringing in a titan.... it's not that big a deal!
Dread Operative
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#1017 - 2012-10-12 04:50:51 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Dread Operative wrote:
So, your telling me I have to wait a full minute to pull my HIC out of my alts carrier to point the titan they jumped instead of bridged with?

Between this and "can sell my kill rights" I think I might be done with EVE. :(

Leave my game alone!!!


You only have to wait the full minute if you have the weapons flag (because you are currently shooting your guns).


Why would I not be shooting? Bait fleet warps in. Engages. Drop triage. They jump bridge whatever to us.


Hold fire if you think they are bringing in a titan.... it's not that big a deal!


Not sure if trolling or.......
Pipa Porto
#1018 - 2012-10-12 07:59:18 UTC
Inquisitor Kitchner wrote:
Of course this leads to potential traps... which would be even better emergent game play. Roving privately formed SPACE POLICE gangs killing criminals, until the Criminals start setting ambushes for the SPACE POLICE.


Except that Criminals cannot set effective ambushes for the Space Police in Crimewatch 2.0 because the Space Police are protected from every individual Suspect that they have not yet fired upon.

Here's how it goes. 10v10 Space Police v Crims.

10 Space Police open fire on Crim 1. Crims 2-10 can do squat.
Crim 1 Dies.
10 Space Police open fire on Crim 2. Crims 3-10 can do squat.
Crim 2 Dies.
etc.

In the alternative, Each Space Police points the Crim across from them then applies DPS to Crim 1.
In that case, it's possible that SP 10 might die from Crim 10's DPS before the focused fire reaches Crim 10. But not all that likely.

Great Ambush, guize.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#1019 - 2012-10-12 12:07:49 UTC
I have not seen how the overview will indicate what state a person is in yet. Will a dev post a screen shot please.Big smile

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
MisterAl tt1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1020 - 2012-10-12 13:57:38 UTC
Back to T3 eject.

Am I getting it right, that a carebear, who never shoots back, receives much privilege over the PVP-pilot, who risks his T3 ship by initiating or taking part in PVP ? Thus carebear will never loose his skill and PVPer will everytime, if T3 is killed.

I thiught this is a game about PVP and a logical result of the idea "more risk = more profit" is "less risks = more losses in case they come" (highsec officer-fitted ratters, e.g.). With the new mechanic carebears in T3 will LOL on the PVPers willing to fight in these ships.

Thank you, CCP it WAS a nice game.