EVE Information Portal

Very shortly after the Dev Blog was punished, some people repeatedly asked what happens when a neutral assists a party engaged in a legal battle.... This was left out of the dev blog, and asked repeatedly....

He finally answered it... so what exactly are you flipping out about? The answer is moderately good... In short, neutral assistance flags you as a suspect...

The idea of changing ships in the middle of combat is an anathema to me, so saying I have little experience with this tactic is true. However, just because I don't like a tactic doesn't make it invalid.


When loading grid after a system jump to find the gate bubbled, it is a common practice to MWD away from the gate and immediately activate a cloak. The cloak turns off the MWD but you still get the benefit of a complete cycle of MWD acceleration as you burn away for the gate while cloaked. This is the kind of cycle timer shenanigans to which I'm alluding.

You say the point drops the instant you eject and I want to believe you. That is how it should work. With the exception of network latency and propagation delay, the target should be able to warp away to anyplace to which he is aligned as soon as your bait ship is not piloted. However, I have pointed out one instance where a player gets the full benefit on a complete cycle while also enjoying the benefits of another that prevents the use for the first. I'd just like to be certain of the truth before I commit my support.

Not trying to accuse anyone of ducking the question, but I've seen it asked multiple times with no DEV response (although I've seen multiple responses from players, with both answers).

When I get an NPC flag, which should last for 15 minutes from the last shot fired, will a ship still "safety warp" 100,000 km from the current spot after a period of time? Specifically when missioning, will non-permatank ships all be destroyed by the in-mission rats, regardless of whether we are scanned down or not? Or will our "safety warp" location be scannable by other players.

I can't say I have a problem with still being visible to scanners, as that is expected, and does avoid the logoff exploit for avoiding PvP. But if a risk-averse, L4 mission runner is going to start losing multiple ships to rats due to poor internet connection, I'm not sure what their new outlet will be. Will losses due to disconnect (that don't involve another player) be petitionable, then?

Also, what if you have drones out on Aggressive? Although they shouldn't keep the NPC flag past the server timeout (i.e., the server recognizes you as disconnected), has this been confirmed?

One person mentioned that the timer might be reduced below 15 minutes. Any possible truth to that?

Mr. White Knight runs with his safety switches on (really, CCP? I thought this was EVE... ) and can't actually activate weapons against a target that will get him CONCORDed. Thus, Mr. White Knight always gets a little PvP if he wants it.

1.) Here's the answer, with several corrections:
a.) The NPC timer may not be 15 minutes... It is Currently 2 minutes... and we've heard dev responses mention reducing it to ONE minute (<-- dear god I hope not!!!)

b.) Once the server registers you as logged off, your ship will attempt the 1m km safety warp. This can be stopped by any warp inhibiting mechanic, including warp scrambling NPCs. If the warp is inhibited, your ship stay in space, in that spot for the duration of your log off timer.

c.) Once the server registers you as logged off, your ship will not despawn until the NPC aggression timer expires. If you are warp scrambled by an NPC upon logging off, that means your ship stays in place and sustains NPC aggro for the entire NPC aggression timer duration. This is the biggest legitimate danger to your vessel from a 15 minute NPC aggression timer, as non-permatanked ships can easily be destroyed by NPC rats within 15 minutes. However, this ONLY a danger if you are warp scrambled when you log off. Most NPC encounters don't have very many warp scrambling rats.

d.) As long as your ship is uncloaked in space, your ship can be scanned down by PvP'ers. Anywhere! This is the biggest danger to nullbears and lowbears that log off to avoid interactions with PvP'ers. Since 15 minutes is enough time to scan down and destroy MOST ships in this game, this change would end the lame log-off to get safe tactics.

2.) Risk adverse LvL 4 mission runners can choose to fly tanky ships that can survive the full 15 minutes of rat aggro. The passive tanked rattlesnake is a good example of a ship that can easily survive a disconnect with major rat aggro. There are domi setups that can perma run Dual LAR's, there are Raven setups that can also permatank full rat aggro from a lvl 4 mission. Hell, there are Myrm and Drake setups that can do this with passive shield tanks.... So, if you are on a shaky internet connection, there are many options you can utilize.... I highly doubt CCP will reimburse your ships loss if you lose it to NPC rats from a disconnect.

3.) The NPC aggression timer is renew whenever you attack an NPC, or whenever an NPC attacks you. Once the server recognizes that you've logged off, the NPC timer CANNOT be renewed. With the recent "drones return to your drone bay upon logoff" changes, your drones will actually return to your drone bay. Ironically, this is a mixed bag for drone users, as it means their drones will not continue shooting the NPC's, which could save their ship....

There have been rumors from EvE Vegas that the NPC aggression timer will be reduced to one minute.... I hope not... CCP Masterplan has NOT mentioned a reduced NPC aggression timer.

See post directly above.

I know there was a way to do it.

I didn't realize we were trying to concord Mr. White Knight.... In my opinion... its soo much better to kill him yourself!!!

I'm not "flipping out" as such, but your answer and his answer is inconsistent with what has been written down in the link I mentioned in my previous post. A legal battle does not give any additional neutral that provides assistance a suspect flag. Merely a PvP flag and/or a Weapons flag, nothing more. The fact that this is now changed isn't necessarily a bad thing and I don't dislike Masterplan for it as such. It's just that because of this, things become blurry and he's on that same slippery slope as the original Crimewatch is: trying to cope with every single exception.

So just leave it as is: wars are never fought fair and square. Wars are dirty and it will bring out the best and worst in people. If a neutral decides to pick sides in a legal battle, he should not become a suspect that everyone else can fire at. It's the nature of a sandbox. Stuff like this can happen. CCP wants players to be involved. Well, this would do the opposite. A neutral will just shy away from any involvement as it would lead to him being flagged as a suspect, thereby potentially rewarding the aggressor.

As example: High-sec space.

Players A to L fly Tornados
Player M is in a freighter
Player N is a neutral

A to L gank M. N is a neutral, but will now think twice before assisting M. This essentially rewards aggressors knowing that they will not have to deal with neutrals defending M through means of repairing him. Neutrals can only defend M by attacking A to L as they have now become criminals.

What I am favor of however, is that if player N decides to repair M, is that he's not only PvP flagged, but also a viable target for A to L. Essentially, that would mean that the legality of a fight is transferred to the neutral alongside the flags. So it would come down to: You can assist a player as a neutral and, provided the player you assist has no suspect or criminal flag, you will not get one yourself. However, as you are interfering in a battle, all players that are registered to have been engaged in a battle with the one you are assisting can now shoot legally at you as well. But only these players can do so. Other neutrals will not. This legality should only transfer to players interfering with the initial party:

A and B pick a fight.
neutral C supports A.
B can also shoot C now.
neutral D supports B.
A can shoot D, but C can not without penalties.

As long as none are flagged suspect, then A and B would get PVP and at least one will have a Weapons flag, C and D would get a PVP and a Weapons flag, depending on the one they support.

If we start propating LEs, we basically end up back with the old aggression-graph, where assisting a single target can end up flagging you to an un-knowable set of people. That is what we're trying to avoid with the flag system.

If you are not warp-scrambled, your ship will always attempt to do a 1-million km emergency-warp if you disconnect (outside of a forcefield). It will then wait out any log-off timers at this position. Whilst here, you can be scanned down as normal.
Having nothing but an NPC flag at the moment you log-off will keep you in space for a non-extendible 15 minutes. (Numbers subject to change)