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Dev blog: Introducing the new and improved Crimewatch

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CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#881 - 2012-10-08 22:22:07 UTC
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Question:

At fanfest you guys said that ship killing (but not pod killing) in low sec would only drop your sec status to -5, not -10, and that you'd change high sec so that you can still go anywhere at -5, unlike the gradual system of exclusion that currently exists. Essentially, this would allow people to be low sec pirates without locking themselves out of high sec, provided they don't podkill.

Is this still happening? (please say yes!)

We planned out a large amount of changes to how sec-status is gained and lost, but unfortunately it didn't fit within the available development times for Winter. We still have all these plans ready to go, but need to the badnwidth to make it happen. That all depends on how Retribution 1.0 goes and what we decide to work on afterwards.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#882 - 2012-10-08 22:23:11 UTC
Reticle wrote:
I haven't seen an answer to this yet:

Are in corp ganks still retribution-less?

See 3 posts up.
(Yes, except for the retribution supplied by your corpmates themselves)

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#883 - 2012-10-08 22:24:11 UTC
Empress Shadowfox Ordo wrote:
There's something I noticed that I wanted to ask a question about.

We've been talking about the NPC timer a lot and it's possible effects on Mission Runners. But, I've noticed that already in the game, there is a significant difference between Mission NPC's and say Belt NPC's, specifically in the Aggression timer. Right now, you can shoot at Mission NPC's with no drawbacks at all, including aggression timers. If you are shot at by a Belt NPC, then there is an aggression timer.

So, my question is pretty much this. When we're talking about the NPC flag, does this only apply to NPC's that currently would give us an Aggression timer, or does it apply to all NPC's, including Mission NPC's that currently don't give us a timer? This would solve a lot of the fears for Mission runners that sudden log offs would kill them in missions, since they wouldn't have an NPC timer from Mission NPC's, but only from any other type of NPC that would currently give an Aggression timer.

As a guideline, the NPC flag will apply to anything that isn't owned by players or player corps.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#884 - 2012-10-08 22:27:34 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Question:

At fanfest you guys said that ship killing (but not pod killing) in low sec would only drop your sec status to -5, not -10, and that you'd change high sec so that you can still go anywhere at -5, unlike the gradual system of exclusion that currently exists. Essentially, this would allow people to be low sec pirates without locking themselves out of high sec, provided they don't podkill.

Is this still happening? (please say yes!)

We planned out a large amount of changes to how sec-status is gained and lost, but unfortunately it didn't fit within the available development times for Winter. We still have all these plans ready to go, but need to the badnwidth to make it happen. That all depends on how Retribution 1.0 goes and what we decide to work on afterwards.

So none of it got in? It was tweeted or posted some where that the -5 sec status was in. Just asking for clearification.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#885 - 2012-10-08 22:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec



2 things:

Assisting corp mates in a LE is allowed without becoming a suspect???? That's kind of harsh to the suspect... as it means they cannot attack the In Corp logistics assisting their opponent!!!

*edit* to clarify:
Pilot A attacks suspect B... and creates a limited engagement. Logistics Pilot C, who's a corp mate of A, would then be able to remote assist pilot A without triggering the suspect flag?? And since Pilot C is NOT flagged a suspect, then Player B cannot do ANYTHING to player C.... This is wrong!!!

and

You still have NOT answered the question about non-limited engagements in highsec/lowsec.

Quote:
An LE is created when character A attacks character B, and where B is globally-attackable due to being a Suspect, Criminal or Outlaw.


But in legal fights (from wars and with killrights), there is NO LE, because there are no globally-attackable flags...

so what are the rules about OOC alts assisting in these engagements
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#886 - 2012-10-08 22:38:31 UTC
Looks like I forgot to include the other, inverse rule, which goes something like this:
Assisting a non-corp/alliance/miliitia-mate with a PVP flag would get you a Suspect flag
Again, this one is still under discussion

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#887 - 2012-10-08 22:38:36 UTC
Got a question about WH fights.

No flags get created right or do flags get created but only effect things if you jump out?

I would suggest disabling the weapons flag in WH and null sec space.



If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#888 - 2012-10-08 22:41:08 UTC
Salpun wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Question:

At fanfest you guys said that ship killing (but not pod killing) in low sec would only drop your sec status to -5, not -10, and that you'd change high sec so that you can still go anywhere at -5, unlike the gradual system of exclusion that currently exists. Essentially, this would allow people to be low sec pirates without locking themselves out of high sec, provided they don't podkill.

Is this still happening? (please say yes!)

We planned out a large amount of changes to how sec-status is gained and lost, but unfortunately it didn't fit within the available development times for Winter. We still have all these plans ready to go, but need to the badnwidth to make it happen. That all depends on how Retribution 1.0 goes and what we decide to work on afterwards.

So none of it got in? It was tweeted or posted some where that the -5 sec status was in. Just asking for clearification.

Correct. The front-loaded penalties for illegal aggression will still be happening, but the big shake-up won't be.
Where did you see anything mentioned otherwise? Did it have a big "plans are subject to change" disclaimer?

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#889 - 2012-10-08 22:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bloodpetal
Any chance for suspect flags for using combat offgrid-gang boosting in a gang while PVP flags are running?

This would work like logistics assistance, if PVP flag is greater for a fleet member, etc?

Where I am.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#890 - 2012-10-08 22:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Salpun wrote:
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Dierdra Vaal wrote:
Question:

At fanfest you guys said that ship killing (but not pod killing) in low sec would only drop your sec status to -5, not -10, and that you'd change high sec so that you can still go anywhere at -5, unlike the gradual system of exclusion that currently exists. Essentially, this would allow people to be low sec pirates without locking themselves out of high sec, provided they don't podkill.

Is this still happening? (please say yes!)

We planned out a large amount of changes to how sec-status is gained and lost, but unfortunately it didn't fit within the available development times for Winter. We still have all these plans ready to go, but need to the badnwidth to make it happen. That all depends on how Retribution 1.0 goes and what we decide to work on afterwards.

So none of it got in? It was tweeted or posted some where that the -5 sec status was in. Just asking for clearification.

Correct. The front-loaded penalties for illegal aggression will still be happening, but the big shake-up won't be.
Where did you see anything mentioned otherwise? Did it have a big "plans are subject to change" disclaimer?

There was a tweet out of EVE Vegas that one of the devs confirmed the -5 was in I'll have to look it up. At least that is where i think i saw it.

Cant find it sorry

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Cerulean Ice
Royal Amarr Reclamation
#891 - 2012-10-08 22:47:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cerulean Ice
CCP, how would the flag work in this case:

A has suspect flag
B attacks A
C helps B with logi
C is not part of the same corp as B, but is in the same fleet

Alternatively
A has suspect flag
B attacks A
C attacks A then helps B with logi
C is not part of the same corp as B, but is in the same fleet

What happens to B and C in both cases?

Cerulean Ice, Professor, E-UNI
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#892 - 2012-10-08 22:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
POST A
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Our current thinking on this is something like:

Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)


^^ This is not acceptable... as it allows free logistics that are immune to retribution... just because they are in your corp...

POST B
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Looks like I forgot to include the other, inverse rule, which goes something like this:
Assisting a non-corp/alliance/miliitia-mate with a PVP flag would get you a Suspect flag
Again, this one is still under discussion


^^^I like this... as it means that Remote Assisting in PvP is dangerous in highsec...

If you do NOT implement your Post A, then:

Player A attacks Player B. Player C remote assists Player A.

If player C gives remote assistance to player A, they get a suspect flag UNLESS player B can legally shoot player C due to wars. Player C can still help Player A by shooting or EWARing Player B, but if they use logistics they risk being shot by others!!!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#893 - 2012-10-08 22:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
Cerulean Ice wrote:
CCP, how would the flag work in this case:

A has suspect flag
B attacks A
C helps B with logi
C is not part of the same corp as B, but is in the same fleet

Player C is flagged a suspect and can be shot by EVERYONE (including Player B).

Cerulean Ice wrote:


Alternatively
A has suspect flag
B attacks A
C attacks A then helps B with logi
C is not part of the same corp as B, but is in the same fleet

What happens to B and C in both cases?


Player C first creates a LE with player A when it shoots player A. This allows player A to shoot Player C too...
Player C then is flagged a suspect for violating the LE between A & B when it reps player B, and can be shot by EVERYONE (including player B).

^ LE's are between two character's only... so attacking player C first doesn't "extend" the LE to enable suspect-flag-free logistics.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#894 - 2012-10-08 23:01:56 UTC
So there is this rumour out that NPC aggro timer will not be 15 minutes but will stay as it is now, at 60 seconds. It seems to be based on a vague account by an eyewitness about what Soundwave supposedly said at EVE Vegas.

Any confirmation? It seems completely ridiculous to me to first shock everyone with a 15 minute timer, then just leave it at 1 minute. If there is to be a revision, one would at least expect something in between.

.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#895 - 2012-10-08 23:08:48 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
So there is this rumour out that NPC aggro timer will not be 15 minutes but will stay as it is now, at 60 seconds. It seems to be based on a vague account by an eyewitness about what Soundwave supposedly said at EVE Vegas.

Any confirmation? It seems completely ridiculous to me to first shock everyone with a 15 minute timer, then just leave it at 1 minute. If there is to be a revision, one would at least expect something in between.


I could be mistaken, but I believe the current NPC aggression timer is 2 minutes.

I think the 15 minute aggro timer is a good thing... as it prevents Nullsec carebears from logging off to "get safe" whenever a hostile enters system (which is a cheap and pathetic way to get safe)!!! I'll admit, a 5 minute timer would work as well as a 15 minute timer for this....

The ONLY drawback to this timer, is if you are scrammed in a LvL 4 missions or plex, there is a strong likelihood your ship will be killed before it despawns... whereas 2 (or even 5) minutes is much more survivable.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#896 - 2012-10-08 23:14:45 UTC

Another drawback to using highsec logistics, is your logi ships become vulnerable to an attack that your dps ships cannot defend.

Player Z is a suspect....
Pilots A-D attacks player Z, creating four LE's with Player Z.
Pilots E & F both rep Pilot A, and all becoming flagged as suspects.

Then, Pilots L, M, N, & O might attack Pilots E & F (who are suspects), and Pilots A-D cannot help their logi pilots because none of the Pilots L-O are suspects.....

Essentially, highsec logistics become very dangerous to use.... but that's a good thing!!!
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#897 - 2012-10-08 23:19:23 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Got a question about WH fights.

No flags get created right or do flags get created but only effect things if you jump out?

I would suggest disabling the weapons flag in WH and null sec space.



Wormholes are included in the section labeled other sec

You gain Weapons, PvP, and NPC flags just like you would in nullsec.
Rengerel en Distel
#898 - 2012-10-08 23:42:22 UTC
Instead of posting all these A attacks B who is a friend of C's barber, why not wait 2 weeks until it's on the test server? Seriously, every possible twist and turn has been posted 5 different ways, and no one bothers to read the responses anyways. Also, they're still changing things, so it may change before it hits the test server making it all moot.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#899 - 2012-10-08 23:53:38 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
scimichar wrote:
I searched the thread, but couldn't find an answer. Since logi will inherit aggression flags from someone aggressed, does that mean they will now get on the kill mail from the pilots they are assisting if the original aggressor gets a kill?


Or put less convoluted: Will logi now inherit kill mails from assisting aggressed pilots?

Logistics on killmails will not be happening in this release, sorry.



you should try to make it happen soon after the expansion then... also, I wanted to know if everyone gets on the killmail if a target is shot at on one side of a gate, but killed on the other side by a different player... (asked twice now without answere... player B shoots player A in on gate... and player A jumps out and gets killed by player C... does player B also get on the killmail then?)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Mikaila Penshar
SISTAHs of EVE
#900 - 2012-10-09 02:25:13 UTC
When can we expect a DevBlog on the changes to the BOUNTY SYSTEM ???