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[Winter] New destroyers

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#81 - 2012-09-28 17:49:56 UTC
if only those spare highs on drone boats meant something i.e. the drone tracking mod would be useful there instead of in the mids where it isn't likely to get used and there is no drone tracking mod in the lows either

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#82 - 2012-09-28 17:50:26 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Gallente destroyer doesnt cut it. It will be hard to make rails work on the Gallente dessy due to no tracking bonus. It is also the largest destroyer at 72m. And it only has 4 turrets out of 6 high slots. I'm not impressed.




I think it's probably more suitable for brawler type stuff, since it uses drones and can actually use blasters, unlike the catalyst, because it has a web.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#83 - 2012-09-28 17:55:19 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Gallente destroyer doesnt cut it. It will be hard to make rails work on the Gallente dessy due to no tracking bonus. It is also the largest destroyer at 72m. And it only has 4 turrets out of 6 high slots. I'm not impressed.




I think it's probably more suitable for brawler type stuff, since it uses drones and can actually use blasters, unlike the catalyst, because it has a web.


If that was the case then a fall-off bonus would work better. The optimal range is suited for rails.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
#84 - 2012-09-28 17:56:45 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

So tech i and tech ii version of the same module will have the same fitting?

Fear God and Thread Nought
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#85 - 2012-09-28 17:56:48 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Gallente destroyer doesnt cut it. It will be hard to make rails work on the Gallente dessy due to no tracking bonus. It is also the largest destroyer at 72m. And it only has 4 turrets out of 6 high slots. I'm not impressed.




I think it's probably more suitable for brawler type stuff, since it uses drones and can actually use blasters, unlike the catalyst, because it has a web.


Then it should have a falloff bonus and a much smaller sig radius.
Eckyy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2012-09-28 17:57:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Eckyy
Jackie Fisher wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

So tech i and tech ii version of the same module will have the same fitting?


That's already the case with turret damage mods. T2 is better in every way.

I wouldnt be opposed to dropping the CPU on the T1 mod from 30 to 25.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#87 - 2012-09-28 18:00:30 UTC
Marcel Devereux wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The Gallente destroyer doesnt cut it. It will be hard to make rails work on the Gallente dessy due to no tracking bonus. It is also the largest destroyer at 72m. And it only has 4 turrets out of 6 high slots. I'm not impressed.




I think it's probably more suitable for brawler type stuff, since it uses drones and can actually use blasters, unlike the catalyst, because it has a web.


If that was the case then a fall-off bonus would work better. The optimal range is suited for rails.



Yeah but it's hardly a wasted bonus unless you're using low tier blasters.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#88 - 2012-09-28 18:02:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Eckyy wrote:
Jackie Fisher wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
* Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
* Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

So tech i and tech ii version of the same module will have the same fitting?


That's already the case with turret damage mods. T2 is better in every way.

I wouldnt be opposed to dropping the CPU on the T1 mod from 30 to 25.


incorrect all the T2 damage mods use less cpu than the meta 4's which are the only meaningful option as the rest are just crap
but the damage mods are all a mess anyway like 10 different dmg mods and the only useful ones are the T2's

And are you going to introduce meta versions of the drone amps preferably better organised than the ones in existence for guns?

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ark Anhammar
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2012-09-28 18:11:50 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • GALLENTE DESTROYER:

    • Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones.

    Ship bonuses:
    +10% to drone damage and HP per level
    +5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
    Role bonus:
    +50% small hybrid turret optimal range
    Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
    Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
    Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
    Signature radius: 72
    Cargo capacity: 350

    This is awesome, but I think it needs some tweaks:

    1) If drones are about damage projection, then please just bonus this dessie for damage projection. Give it 2 drone bonuses, maybe (bonus 1) 10% drone damage AND (bonus 2) 15% drone MWD or Tracking and hitpoints. That way, we can stick 2x drone links on top to give it truly long range damage projection, with the MWD/tracking bonus to improve the damage application. Take off the hybrid bonus, and the turrets can just be used for destroyer defense while the drones are off far away doing their thing. Or hell, I'd just use small smartbombs lol.

    2) Increase the drone bay! Honestly, there's no reason to give Amarr a larger drone bay with the same bandwith, since both of these ships rely on their drones for their damage application. If anything, the Gallente version should have 100 m3.

    On a larger note about drones overall, there needs to be a pass over all drone mechanics, since no other race have to deal with issues like their "guns" being shot by gate guns, having their "guns" targeted and destroyed by the enemy, and so on. Also, we need to be able to see drone health inside the drone bay, and maybe the drone races can get innate bonuses to their ships that'd allow drone armor to be repaired in the drone bay.
    Dersen Lowery
    The Scope
    #90 - 2012-09-28 18:15:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dersen Lowery
    Nice changes overall! The mini-Arbitrator is sexy.

    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals.


    This is why the drone boats are a nice break; you can get some versatility beyond "warp to zero and pulverize." It seems that the new idea is that the Amarr get to enjoy the versatility of drones, and Gallente just have a little extra space for replacement combat drones, because MOAR DPS.

    Please reconsider this decision. If the idea is that combat drones are a particularly expensive form of ammo, then we'll want at least slightly bigger bays if we want to continue to enjoy the ability to switch out drone types depending on the situation.

    Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

    I voted in CSM X!
    Marcel Devereux
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #91 - 2012-09-28 18:17:11 UTC
    Ark Anhammar wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • GALLENTE DESTROYER:

    • Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals. While the damage is lower than a Catalyst, remember that drone projection remains stable at much farther ranges (especially with drone damage amplifier changes below). On the downside, it has a limited dronebay next to the Amarr version, making it more difficult to replace lost drones.

    Ship bonuses:
    +10% to drone damage and HP per level
    +5% to small hybrid turret damage per level
    Role bonus:
    +50% small hybrid turret optimal range
    Slot layout: 6 H, 3 M, 3 L, 4 turrets
    Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 50
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
    Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
    Signature radius: 72
    Cargo capacity: 350

    This is awesome, but I think it needs some tweaks:

    1) If drones are about damage projection, then please just bonus this dessie for damage projection. Give it 2 drone bonuses, maybe (bonus 1) 10% drone damage AND (bonus 2) 15% drone MWD or Tracking and hitpoints. That way, we can stick 2x drone links on top to give it truly long range damage projection, with the MWD/tracking bonus to improve the damage application. Take off the hybrid bonus, and the turrets can just be used for destroyer defense while the drones are off far away doing their thing. Or hell, I'd just use small smartbombs lol.

    2) Increase the drone bay! Honestly, there's no reason to give Amarr a larger drone bay with the same bandwith, since both of these ships rely on their drones for their damage application. If anything, the Gallente version should have 100 m3.

    On a larger note about drones overall, there needs to be a pass over all drone mechanics, since no other race have to deal with issues like their "guns" being shot by gate guns, having their "guns" targeted and destroyed by the enemy, and so on. Also, we need to be able to see drone health inside the drone bay, and maybe the drone races can get innate bonuses to their ships that'd allow drone armor to be repaired in the drone bay.


    Or make one of the drone mods have the ability to repair drones in the drone bay.
    Marcel Devereux
    Aideron Robotics
    Aideron Robotics.
    #92 - 2012-09-28 18:18:56 UTC
    Dersen Lowery wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Gallente are always about raw firepower, that's why this ship combines both turret and drone damage to achieve its goals.


    This is why the drone boats are a nice break; you can get some versatility beyond "warp to zero and pulverize." It seems that the new idea is that the Amarr get to enjoy the versatility of drones, and Gallente just have a little extra space for replacement combat drones, because MOAR DPS.

    Please reconsider this decision. If the idea is that combat drones are a particularly expensive form of ammo, then we'll want at least slightly bigger bays if we want to continue to enjoy the ability to switch out drone types depending on the situation.


    Why should Gallente have options? Isn't the answer obvious? You should cross train and never fly Gallente.
    Zarnak Wulf
    Task Force 641
    Empyrean Edict
    #93 - 2012-09-28 18:23:23 UTC
    Gallente - kill the hybrid damage bonus. Give it a hybrid tracking bonus instead. Give it a fifth turret slot (4 * 1.25 = 5 anyways). It's CPU is too weak to consider drone upgrades in those two spare highs anyways.
    Doddy
    Excidium.
    #94 - 2012-09-28 18:24:38 UTC
    Harvey James wrote:
    Eckyy wrote:
    Jackie Fisher wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    * Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
    * Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

    So tech i and tech ii version of the same module will have the same fitting?


    That's already the case with turret damage mods. T2 is better in every way.

    I wouldnt be opposed to dropping the CPU on the T1 mod from 30 to 25.


    incorrect all the T2 damage mods use less cpu than the meta 4's which are the only meaningful option as the rest are just crap
    but the damage mods are all a mess anyway like 10 different dmg mods and the only useful ones are the T2's


    How is that incorrect? t1 and t2 use the same cpu on both. There are no meta 4, sure, that doesn't make him incorrect.
    Harvey James
    The Sengoku Legacy
    #95 - 2012-09-28 18:26:57 UTC
    Doddy wrote:
    Harvey James wrote:
    Eckyy wrote:
    Jackie Fisher wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    * Drone Damage Amplifier I: CPU increased from 27 to 30, drone damage increased from 15 to 16%
    * Drone Damage Amplifier II: CPU reduced from 32 to 30, drone damage increased from 19 to 23%

    So tech i and tech ii version of the same module will have the same fitting?


    That's already the case with turret damage mods. T2 is better in every way.

    I wouldnt be opposed to dropping the CPU on the T1 mod from 30 to 25.


    incorrect all the T2 damage mods use less cpu than the meta 4's which are the only meaningful option as the rest are just crap
    but the damage mods are all a mess anyway like 10 different dmg mods and the only useful ones are the T2's


    How is that incorrect? t1 and t2 use the same cpu on both. There are no meta 4, sure, that doesn't make him incorrect.


    yes technically the turret ones do have the same cpu i was thinking of the bcu t1 -t2 which is different by 5

    T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

    ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

    Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
    Caerephon
    Murmur.
    #96 - 2012-09-28 18:28:44 UTC
    With the new Amarr destroyer, it looks like the one EAF that you could use solo is now useless. Sad CCP, y u no buff EAFs?
    HazeInADaze
    Safari Hunt Club
    #97 - 2012-09-28 18:30:47 UTC
    Amarr hits with the power of 6 weapon mounts. Gallente hit with the power of 5 weapon mounts with range bonus (hybrid only) Amarr still hold a cap bonus and a nuet bonus over gals. At face value this seems unbalanced.
    Mortimer Civeri
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #98 - 2012-09-28 18:33:15 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    •AMARR DESTROYER:

    The Amarr destroyer is designed to take down opposition through indirect means. On the downside, the damage is nothing to write home about, but the combination of energy disruption ability plus drone control makes it dangerous at shutting enemy frigates off, then finishing them properly when they're helpless. It also has quite a generous dronebay, for multiple drone replacements.

    Ship bonuses:
    +10% to drone damage and hitpoint per level
    +20% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer range per level
    Role bonus:
    +25% to ship capacitor recharge rate
    Slot layout: 6 H, 2 M, 4 L, 3 turrets, 3 launchers
    Fittings: 55 PWG, 150 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 750 / 950 / 850
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 600 / 370s / 1.62s
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235 / 2.75 / 1700000 / 4.71s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 39km / 525 / 6
    Sensor strength: 10 radar
    Signature radius: 66
    Cargo capacity: 300

    •MINMATAR DESTROYER:

    This ship is unique among all Destroyers as it has a bonus that improves survivability - it is designed to zip around in the battlefield at high velocities while spewing missiles. As a downside however it's less efficient at hitting fast moving targets at greater ranges than the Caldari hull is.

    Ship bonuses:
    +5% to rocket and light missile explosion damage per level
    15% reduction in MicroWarpdrive signature radius penalty per level
    Role bonus:
    +50% to rocket and light missile velocity
    Slot layout: 7 H, 3 M, 3 L, 7 launchers
    Fittings: 48 PWG, 200 CPU
    Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 850 / 800 / 800
    Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 450 / 290s / 1.55s
    Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 255 / 2.89 / 1600000 / 4.64s
    Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0
    Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 36km / 550 / 6
    Sensor strength: 9 ladar
    Signature radius: 60
    Cargo capacity: 400


    I'll be in my bunk.

    "I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
    Amantus
    Drexciyan Sea Unit
    SPACE DETROIT
    #99 - 2012-09-28 18:37:45 UTC
    so the Gallente one is terrible compared to the Amarr one
    Grog Drinker
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #100 - 2012-09-28 18:39:34 UTC
    The amarr needs another mid for a cap booster if it plans on actually powering any nuets. The range bonus really isn't that spectacular on it.