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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[Winter] New destroyers

First post
Author
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1081 - 2012-11-23 14:02:13 UTC
Alaster Burleson wrote:
~(This setup makes this class of destroyers un-tackle-able. Wow CCP, could you make a more unfair, ridiculous flying newb cannon? It defeats the purpose and motto behind EVE)~


Obviously you have never been in a hawk...but it can passive tank thermal and kinetic for 25k ehp, or active tank 250 dps. Not needing cap, and as it typically ends up, the dragoon will end up neuting itself out by constantly running neuts on your ship. A single nos can keep a scram running.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#1082 - 2012-11-23 16:23:28 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:

The Amarr dessie is gonna be an efficient killing machine


The Gallente dessie now has the exact same drone speed bonuses, more drone control bandwidth, and weapon bonus besides. Small neuts are not bonused on anything but range for the Dragoon, and smalls take very little energy away. I think the gallente just superseded the Amarr notably at this point.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#1083 - 2012-11-23 17:23:30 UTC
Ares Desideratus wrote:
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Ares Desideratus wrote:
[quote=Alaster Burleson]Edit: Although it will still be out-classed by the expensive specialized frigates like the Vengeance or Hawk. It seems pretty well-rounded to me but we'll see
Or anything that moves fast and kills drones well?

And it has to be able to deal with heavy capacitor warfare (we're talking about 3 energy neuts here) and the secondary weapons system, either turrets or launchers.

There's plenty of fast **** that could kill it, but they're all expensive faction or T2 frigates and lots of them will die horribly to it; it might lose to some 100 million ISK frigates, but that doesn't matter you see. The same way it doesn't matter for the current destroyers. It's because of Destroyers' low cost and high performance.

The Amarr dessie is gonna be an efficient killing machine



No it doesn't.. Just needs to keep range..

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1084 - 2012-11-23 17:24:55 UTC
I have a feeling the nos/neut platform is not gonna happen. You cap yourself out WAY too quick. Even if you don't you only have 2 mids, so it's either prop or point + cap booster if you don't wanna suck yourself dry like a woman of the night turning a trick.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1085 - 2012-11-23 17:25:37 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
The Gallente dessie now has the exact same drone speed bonuses, more drone control bandwidth, and weapon bonus besides. Small neuts are not bonused on anything but range for the Dragoon, and smalls take very little energy away. I think the gallente just superseded the Amarr notably at this point.

The Dragoon with 3 neutralizers will cap out most frigates in 3 cycles (18 seconds), provided the frigate do not use its cap (that remain to be seen). A fourth cycle (24s total), and no frigate will have any cap left (even Amarr frigates), and most destroyers will be dry too.

And that is with only 3 neutralizers.

1 neutralizer = 50 cap neutralized every 6 seconds.
Enyo cap pool, all skills at 5, T2 MWD : 356 GJ.
AB incursus, all 5 : 462 GJ.

I hope these numbers will comfort you. :-)
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1086 - 2012-11-23 18:08:28 UTC
I am very interested in the concept of the Dragoon. It can go three ways: a long range beam and light missile platform, short range brawler with pulses and rockets, or neut platform with rockets. With drones providing a healty punch as well, even more versatility with ECM drones, or even energy neut drones to cap out the enemy faster.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin

Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#1087 - 2012-11-23 18:15:39 UTC
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
The Gallente dessie now has the exact same drone speed bonuses, more drone control bandwidth, and weapon bonus besides. Small neuts are not bonused on anything but range for the Dragoon, and smalls take very little energy away. I think the gallente just superseded the Amarr notably at this point.

The Dragoon with 3 neutralizers will cap out most frigates in 3 cycles (18 seconds), provided the frigate do not use its cap (that remain to be seen). A fourth cycle (24s total), and no frigate will have any cap left (even Amarr frigates), and most destroyers will be dry too.

And that is with only 3 neutralizers.

1 neutralizer = 50 cap neutralized every 6 seconds.
Enyo cap pool, all skills at 5, T2 MWD : 356 GJ.
AB incursus, all 5 : 462 GJ.

I hope these numbers will comfort you. :-)


They actually do comfort me somewhat, thank you. ;)

next two questions are:
1) how well does it do vs frigs / dessies with cap batteries? In pvp most of them are equipped with them.
and
2) How much more damage will the bonused guns do from the Gallente boat in 18 seconds in that 12-13k range (regular and overheated)?

Appreciate the number crunch.

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1088 - 2012-11-23 19:05:20 UTC
Mortimer Civeri wrote:
I am very interested in the concept of the Dragoon. It can go three ways: a long range beam and light missile platform, short range brawler with pulses and rockets, or neut platform with rockets. With drones providing a healty punch as well, even more versatility with ECM drones, or even energy neut drones to cap out the enemy faster.


Or use autocannons/arty. No cap usage.

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Bouh Revetoile
In Wreck we thrust
#1089 - 2012-11-24 02:55:31 UTC
Zyella Stormborn wrote:
They actually do comfort me somewhat, thank you. ;)|/quote]
Your welcome :p

[quote=Zyella Stormborn]
next two questions are:
1) how well does it do vs frigs / dessies with cap batteries? In pvp most of them are equipped with them.
and
2) How much more damage will the bonused guns do from the Gallente boat in 18 seconds in that 12-13k range (regular and overheated)?

Appreciate the number crunch.

In pvp, no one ever fit cap battery, though I tested a small cap battery on an atron but the result weren't that good. At best, you may cap out your opponent if he have a comparable capacitor (amarr have the best capacitor, so good luck) and he don't have any cap module (cap booster or whatever), but you will still be caped out. This defense don't work alone unless you don't need your cap.

If you now talk about cap booster, it's a whole other story. Usually, the only ship who fit cap booster are those who rely heavily on their cap : active tank or perma MWD + cap using weapon. If you don't *really* need capacitor, you fit something else than a cap booster (TD are fashionable these times). Now, if you use your cap to the point you need a cap booster, neutralizer will be a huge pain. You will only be able to run your ship half the time at best.

If the ennemy have only a nos, he should be able to run his modules (point/weapons) with only occasional disruptions. If you space the neut cycles though, he is doomed. One nos can't offset three neut cycling one every 2 seconds.

If your ennemy have cap booster just in case of neutralizers, you just have been countered.

For the gallente destroyer, it depend on the fit : not much with blasters ; around 150dps with 75mm railguns (not sure, I have to check that tomorow). Obviously a tough opponent, though you may want to kill its drones whil your neuts cap it out because he don't have your drone bay, so when it's done, he is harmless. You just need to have the tank to survive these 25 seconds.

Personnaly, I would avoid at all cost approaching such a destroyer unless I know I can kill it in less than these some seconds. I'm afraid kiting will be its only weakness, though I need to see the tank he will be able to sport. The only way to survive this destroyer is to be too far for its neutralizers to hit you, or to kill it before it cap you out. That's not an easy task.
Zyella Stormborn
Green Seekers
#1090 - 2012-11-24 03:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Zyella Stormborn
[quote=Bouh Revetoile
In pvp, no one ever fit cap battery....[/quote]



booster is indeed what I meant. My typo there What?

Good notes. With so many damnable ASB's and (at least many of the Amarr and Gallente ships I have run into) Cap Boosters I still see as being a big problem, but with some of the numbers you put up there (helps a ton as I normally go with hands on experience, my EFT number crunching not doing nearly as well) I am feeling much better in general about the Dragoon as a whole.


Thx.

~Z

There is a special Hell for people like that, Right next to child molestors, and people that talk in the theater. ~Firefly

Sureshot Lee
Doomheim
#1091 - 2012-11-28 01:31:08 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
the gal drone ship i want to see

GALLENTE DESTROYER:

Ship bonuses:
+10% to drone damage and HP per level
+1 max active drone per level
Role bonus:
+50% small hybrid turret optimal range
Slot layout: 5H, 3 M, 4 L, 4 turrets
Fittings: 60 PWG, 150 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 800 / 850 / 950
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 550 / 350s / 1.57s
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 240 / 2.45 / 1800000 / 4.46s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 42km / 500 / 7
Sensor strength: 11 magnetometric
Signature radius: 72
Cargo capacity: 350



Haha well done mate all well and good to the extra drone control but uhh not enough bandwidth to use them lol you need 50 bandwidth to use 10 light drones which you would only need 50 m3 drone bay unless you want some support or spares and yes please light sentries those with a med to long range amarr would be great I never really understand the neus u can't use them without neuting yourself I find lol

Maybe change the amarr design still is like the coercer in looks maybe make it more like a omen or amarg or vex or/augoror hullRoll
Aestivalis Saidrian
Directed Kinetic Security Solutions
#1092 - 2012-11-29 16:41:14 UTC
Nah, keep the modified Coercer hull. It gives it character and sums up Amarr design philosphy, "Well this works such just attach some extra wingy bits and call it a day." Or in this case, filling in that absolutely silly hole in the middle of the ship. Blink
ConranAntoni
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1093 - 2012-11-29 20:22:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
New update:

We've taken another polish pass on these ships based partially on feedback we've been getting from the Buckingham test server, and decided to free up a bit of fittings for these little guys. The fittings were extremely tight which was especially painful for newer players without perfect fitting skills, and anyone who chooses to use lasers on the Dragoon (not that we think lasers will be the most popular option, but it really should be possible to fit gatling pulses with a light tank).

Changes are:

Corax
48 PWG (+3)

Talwar
51 PWG (+3)

Dragoon
58 PWG (+3)

Algos
160 CPU (+10)


See, now you got me interested. Liking it, keep it up.

Empyrean Warriors - Recruiting now.

Pinky Denmark
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1094 - 2012-11-30 14:16:35 UTC
I tried to fit up the Dragoon and it felt like rather limited in PG...Didn't strike me as a solid ship and barely being able to fit gatling pulse, rocket launchers and a few small neutralizers not a very dangerous ship either?
Major Killz
Tr0pa de elite.
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#1095 - 2012-11-30 23:19:34 UTC
Build List

1. Talwar x 8 (1 setup)
2. Algos x 4 (2 different setups, replace comet)
3. Corax x 4 (1 setup)

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ![/u]

Alara IonStorm
#1096 - 2012-12-01 09:57:15 UTC
I know it is late but I think the Dragoon should get a forth turret and launcher. Allows for 2 Neut fits which are lower on grid for most weapons and capacitor while allowing weapon range unity.
CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1097 - 2012-12-04 10:39:16 UTC
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.