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[Winter] Changes to NPC AI

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Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2012-09-23 20:21:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Drotes wrote:
You know this is so sad .... ccp is becoming a joke at the very least ..... my reasons for believing this is because things i have seen them do, the way they are trying bring new stuff to the table but will not use there heads to think things through, and a few other things i see coming that need to be discussed elsewhere.

My experience as i log onto the test server was WTF!!!! .... first i have not used a drone ship for awhile so i don't have one setup. Figuring i could just look on the market really fast and get what i need to get something going just to see only frigates and a few destroyers. I am now at this point wondering why i should even bother but i don't like to give up easily. I grab a ship i have that has a flight of drones and set out to try something out. Warping to the first gate i find that i can not get through the gate took like 6 tries before i was able to get through. At second gate as i landed at 0km concord immediately webbed, scrammed, and locked me out of the gate. Needless to say that ship died, as did the next 2 i tried.


My experience on the test server was really bad as ccp has failed to create a environment for us to properly test the changes. Mark my words this is just going to end up being another inventory fail.


The Duality test server has been put specifically in it's current state so that we can encourage players to test the new frigate and destroyer changes that are coming.

We are still working out a specific time frame but Duality will be coming back with a fully seeded market so that players can test these changes. It is still only September, we have plenty of time to test these changes.



Dear CCP (Fox Four),

please do not feel discouraged by such comments. I am very pleased to see you replied to it in a calm 'voice' explaining once again, that winter (expansion) is not tomorrow and that one cannot expect a testserver to run smoothly of the bat - especially since it even is only a substitute for the regular testserver made public just recently.

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Savira Terrant

P.S.: Also can't wait for winter! Please go and treat Ullr some free PLEX to bribe him to make it winter now! (As in for the rest of the northern hemisphere and not just Iceland.) ;P

.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#82 - 2012-09-23 20:43:09 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Drotes wrote:
You know this is so sad .... ccp is becoming a joke at the very least ..... my reasons for believing this is because things i have seen them do, the way they are trying bring new stuff to the table but will not use there heads to think things through, and a few other things i see coming that need to be discussed elsewhere.

My experience as i log onto the test server was WTF!!!! .... first i have not used a drone ship for awhile so i don't have one setup. Figuring i could just look on the market really fast and get what i need to get something going just to see only frigates and a few destroyers. I am now at this point wondering why i should even bother but i don't like to give up easily. I grab a ship i have that has a flight of drones and set out to try something out. Warping to the first gate i find that i can not get through the gate took like 6 tries before i was able to get through. At second gate as i landed at 0km concord immediately webbed, scrammed, and locked me out of the gate. Needless to say that ship died, as did the next 2 i tried.


My experience on the test server was really bad as ccp has failed to create a environment for us to properly test the changes. Mark my words this is just going to end up being another inventory fail.


The Duality test server has been put specifically in it's current state so that we can encourage players to test the new frigate and destroyer changes that are coming.

We are still working out a specific time frame but Duality will be coming back with a fully seeded market so that players can test these changes. It is still only September, we have plenty of time to test these changes.



Dear CCP (Fox Four),

please do not feel discouraged by such comments. I am very pleased to see you replied to it in a calm 'voice' explaining once again, that winter (expansion) is not tomorrow and that one cannot expect a testserver to run smoothly of the bat - especially since it even is only a substitute for the regular testserver made public just recently.

Keep up the good work!

Regards,

Savira Terrant

P.S.: Also can't wait for winter! Please go and treat Ullr some free PLEX to bribe him to make it winter now! (As in for the rest of the northern hemisphere and not just Iceland.) ;P


It isn't even really winter here in Iceland yet. No snow, temperature is still above zero, and I still see daylight. You are just going to have to wait. Unlike me, I get to see everything going into the expansion. And play with it. YAY! :P

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2012-09-23 21:04:24 UTC
That's just sooo mean!

But I will wait! Bear (Sunglases against sunlight... never heard of it before, but must be bad Ugh )

.
Drotes
Perkone
Caldari State
#84 - 2012-09-23 21:51:57 UTC
I am not really a mean person nor do i want to be mean. I am also for changes to missions, rat, ships, and all the other stuff. This is something that needs done, but what i am seeing is that ccp has plenty of dev teams reaching into the cookie jar. This can only mean that none of them are going to get the cookie and only the players will suffer. I also know that there is still a lot of time.

Please also remember it was Fox Four that said it was on the test server and to try it. In my opinion that was way to premature if the server was not ready for it.
Kheeria
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#85 - 2012-09-24 05:19:41 UTC
To me this + HML nerf is a gamebreaker and I'll probably unsub my accounts and find another game, no you can't have my stuff, it will go to charity.

When I started EVE I went straight to mining because I used to love it in Earth and Beyond, but mining in EVE is so different from EnB. Seriously the most boring stuff you can do in EVE and thus not for me and it's a hassle to move and sell at a nice price.

Then we have PI, I'd rather shoot myself in the face than do PI, EVE farmville FTL.

Now I'm running 2 tengus and training for a carrier for fighter support on them and I've finally found a way to make money which isn't completely boring and I can actually see a light in the end of the tunnel. I'm not saying these changes will make PVE boring, it's more about stress and I have CFS. Stress, which this will be, will just make me worse than I usually am. Even controlling fighters on tengus is stress, I've tried with a dude in FA. Now if I gotta keep sending them back and forth like a yoyo because I don't feel like losing 200+ mill in fighters I just don't see the point in playing anymore. Some of us actually need the "lazy" money making and I've never afked anything in this game except sitting in station.

I've never SRFed a ship in BLM nor FA because it's just too much hassle and I'd rather be playing than writing forumposts...

Oh well, luckily X-COM: EU is out soon.
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
#86 - 2012-09-24 07:17:13 UTC
@CCP FoxFour

I have tested Dominix with mobile drones in some null anoms and all seems to be ok but I wanted to test some lowsec complexes as they might be problematic for drone boats ( it's mostly about DED5s and Annexes ). After nearly 2 hours I finally found said complexes using scanning alt but.....

Unfortunately my only Ishtar has been ganked by your killer police.
Technically.....it's your faultTwisted

As there is no fully functional market on duality yet. Is there a possibility of spawning this ship in my assets so I can do some testing in those complexes ( using domi is pointless because no one uses BSs in low and aggro is dependant on signature )?

Hey!
You owe me a replacement dammit.Lol
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#87 - 2012-09-24 09:49:39 UTC
Kheeria wrote:
To me this + HML nerf is a gamebreaker and I'll probably unsub my accounts and find another game, no you can't have my stuff, it will go to charity.

When I started EVE I went straight to mining because I used to love it in Earth and Beyond, but mining in EVE is so different from EnB. Seriously the most boring stuff you can do in EVE and thus not for me and it's a hassle to move and sell at a nice price.

Then we have PI, I'd rather shoot myself in the face than do PI, EVE farmville FTL.

Now I'm running 2 tengus and training for a carrier for fighter support on them and I've finally found a way to make money which isn't completely boring and I can actually see a light in the end of the tunnel.


Fit HAM Tengus. 42km range is enough for Forsaken hubs.

Now please find an counter-argument that doesn't sound childish such as "Oh I don't want to run around the place because my range is crappy". 42km isn't a crappy range for a 950 DPS machine.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#88 - 2012-09-24 11:07:48 UTC
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
@CCP FoxFour

I have tested Dominix with mobile drones in some null anoms and all seems to be ok but I wanted to test some lowsec complexes as they might be problematic for drone boats ( it's mostly about DED5s and Annexes ). After nearly 2 hours I finally found said complexes using scanning alt but.....

Unfortunately my only Ishtar has been ganked by your killer police.
Technically.....it's your faultTwisted

As there is no fully functional market on duality yet. Is there a possibility of spawning this ship in my assets so I can do some testing in those complexes ( using domi is pointless because no one uses BSs in low and aggro is dependant on signature )?

Hey!
You owe me a replacement dammit.Lol


I really do apologize for this. You took time to try and test this and were unable to. I am currently working to get Duality back to a fully seeded state without broken police.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Rengerel en Distel
#89 - 2012-09-24 11:22:49 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
@CCP FoxFour

I have tested Dominix with mobile drones in some null anoms and all seems to be ok but I wanted to test some lowsec complexes as they might be problematic for drone boats ( it's mostly about DED5s and Annexes ). After nearly 2 hours I finally found said complexes using scanning alt but.....

Unfortunately my only Ishtar has been ganked by your killer police.
Technically.....it's your faultTwisted

As there is no fully functional market on duality yet. Is there a possibility of spawning this ship in my assets so I can do some testing in those complexes ( using domi is pointless because no one uses BSs in low and aggro is dependant on signature )?

Hey!
You owe me a replacement dammit.Lol


I really do apologize for this. You took time to try and test this and were unable to. I am currently working to get Duality back to a fully seeded state without broken police.


Duality now says it's closed and to use Buckingham. Does that mean the code has moved to Buckingham, or Duality is just down for the fix? It'd be really helpful if someone could perhaps keep the players a bit in the loop of what's going on where. 3 test servers each running different versions of the game w/ different changes is hard to keep track of.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2012-09-24 12:06:19 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:
@CCP FoxFour

I have tested Dominix with mobile drones in some null anoms and all seems to be ok but I wanted to test some lowsec complexes as they might be problematic for drone boats ( it's mostly about DED5s and Annexes ). After nearly 2 hours I finally found said complexes using scanning alt but.....

Unfortunately my only Ishtar has been ganked by your killer police.
Technically.....it's your faultTwisted

As there is no fully functional market on duality yet. Is there a possibility of spawning this ship in my assets so I can do some testing in those complexes ( using domi is pointless because no one uses BSs in low and aggro is dependant on signature )?

Hey!
You owe me a replacement dammit.Lol


I really do apologize for this. You took time to try and test this and were unable to. I am currently working to get Duality back to a fully seeded state without broken police.


Duality now says it's closed and to use Buckingham. Does that mean the code has moved to Buckingham, or Duality is just down for the fix? It'd be really helpful if someone could perhaps keep the players a bit in the loop of what's going on where. 3 test servers each running different versions of the game w/ different changes is hard to keep track of.



Duality is just down for now. Buckingham is running some other code, not sure what exactly to tell you the truth. I am working to get Duality back up for this weekend.

Trust me the different public test servers is kind of a new thing for us internally as well and keeping track of it is a pain. :/

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#91 - 2012-09-24 14:15:47 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:

Duality is just down for now. Buckingham is running some other code, not sure what exactly to tell you the truth. I am working to get Duality back up for this weekend.

Trust me the different public test servers is kind of a new thing for us internally as well and keeping track of it is a pain. :/


Have you tried asking CCP Goliath?

At least he claims to be QA Director in his sig, so he should know ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Drotes
Perkone
Caldari State
#92 - 2012-09-24 14:22:37 UTC
You will get it , just let us know when it is ready and we will be more than willing to test this. This can be a massive game change as it will affect ships, tactics, and the way the game is played in groups. Lets just slow down a little and get it right and then we all can have fun.

I would also like to apologize for my original post, I was very upset and should never have posted at that time.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#93 - 2012-09-24 14:31:18 UTC
Drotes wrote:
You will get it , just let us know when it is ready and we will be more than willing to test this. This can be a massive game change as it will affect ships, tactics, and the way the game is played in groups. Lets just slow down a little and get it right and then we all can have fun.

I would also like to apologize for my original post, I was very upset and should never have posted at that time.


Not a problem. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Lydia Schmidt
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2012-09-24 15:28:13 UTC
Will there be any changes in the drone UI for this patch? So that us drone boat pilots at least have better feedback when our little buddies are being harassed?

Would be nice if:

  • the "Drones in local space" folder automatically expanded when we launched drones so that we can see their HP,
  • the "Drones in bay" folder and subfolders were automatically closed to reduce clutter and the scrolling required within the drones window.
Andrack
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#95 - 2012-09-24 18:57:08 UTC
Lydia Schmidt wrote:
Will there be any changes in the drone UI for this patch? So that us drone boat pilots at least have better feedback when our little buddies are being harassed?

Would be nice if:

  • the "Drones in local space" folder automatically expanded when we launched drones so that we can see their HP,
  • the "Drones in bay" folder and subfolders were automatically closed to reduce clutter and the scrolling required within the drones window.


I'd prefer that and the following:

The drones in drone bay only show the count next to the drone types (like they do when you have new/packaged & stacked drones)

When you launch a drone from the "stack" it will launch the LEAST DAMAGED drone first. So I can keep my damaged drones for repairs later or spread the damage out instead of losing a "crippled" drone.

This will further reduce the "scrolling" required for drones listed while in the drone bay atleast.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#96 - 2012-09-24 23:13:07 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
......

Each step we take will require balance. If we make an adjustment like lowering the number of NPC because we give them some new ability, we will also look at their damage. So yes we will, but in this case we have not as we have not seen it to be needed.

There are things this change does that is not balanced.

It makes drone boats less useful.
It hurts fleets.

vs.

The solo pilot using turrets or missiles is unaffected.

To balance out the effect on drone boats and fleets by reducing the difficulty of the NPCs just makes it easier for the solo pilot using turrets or missiles. The unbalance remains.

Maybe you should talk to others about a small buff to drones and fleets. I suggested:

When drones are set to aggressive, they aggro on enemy ships shooting you when launched without having to wait for a new enemy to shoot you.

My drones and my fleet mates be designated "cooperative targets". This means I can get a target lock on them much faster than normal. This would help with remote reps.


So far in our testing this change has not hurt either of those two groups.

Drone users:
I flew a Dominix into Angel Extravaganza, I began with taking aggro, then I launched light drones to kill off the frigates. While my light drones were out the frigates switched their fire to them, but I dispatched them quickly enough that it was of no concern. Then I switched to heavies and moved on. The whole mission maybe took me a few minutes longer, but based on how long the overall mission took it was not that much of a change. I didn't lose a drone through out it either. So if our "nerf" to drone users is that they have to pay more attention to the game and interact with it, well we can live with that.

Fleets:
I ran a mission dual boxing a logi ship and a DPS ship. My DPS ship carried some logi drones, and my logi ship carried DPS drones. I had to pay some more attention to what was going on, but my logi ship had enough buffer to survive every encounter when paired with a few logi drones. The nice thing is that because the logi ship did not need to run its reps the whole mission, as my DPS ship was not always the target, I could change the fit to be less cap stable and add more buffer/resistance.

Both of these groups will have to change and adapt to the new gameplay, but so long as they put a bit of effort into they can more than easily come up with a new plan that works just as well.


So why are you asking for feedback when you have already done your own testing and believe that your recent abomination is wonderful?

This will be a disaster for me, and all the drone boat pilots.
It does not matter how much we scream, because you and all the null sec zealots are saying "this is wonderful".
Rengerel en Distel
#97 - 2012-09-24 23:38:28 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


So why are you asking for feedback when you have already done your own testing and believe that your recent abomination is wonderful?

This will be a disaster for me, and all the drone boat pilots.
It does not matter how much we scream, because you and all the null sec zealots are saying "this is wonderful".

Not that we can test this while the server is down, but you could atleast test it before going off on another rant. You have no idea how it's going to work yet, so you can't say it will be a disaster. My ship progression was vexor, myrm, domi then rattler, so I'm hardly indifferent to the changes, but can atleast wait until it's tested.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Adigard
RubberDuckies
#98 - 2012-09-24 23:50:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Adigard
.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#99 - 2012-09-25 14:54:45 UTC
So more information to come soon but it sounds like we will have Duality back up this weekend for testing. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#100 - 2012-09-25 22:04:38 UTC
I feel as if this is a real nerf to sentries. Sentries are huge, do lots of dmg (and theoretically will draw lots of hate) and drone boats can't really hold a lot of them (always an issue that drone boats can't hold very many drones when drones can be destroyed), and they don't move. So if you're 1km outside scoop range they'll die.