Test Server Feedback

haha
I have an OCD about not loosing drones. Even T1 ones. I like seeing my dronebay at full every time I check the fitting screen, organized nicely according to flights.
Drone loss messes things up. I don't like messes around my silicon-servitors!

True, but if not for Incarna, this expansion would have been about the POS revamp along with ring mining and the technium changes. A bad feature/expansion has a ripple effect that pushes other changes further out. This expansion has a few features like that which if they have to shift gears and address immediately, will further push much needed changes onto the backburner.

This one at least could be simply scrapped and the current NPC AI that is working fine on TQ could remain in place until all the bugs and features are ready to go. Sending it live, but stating that it's broken, and will be fixed at a later date just sends a bad message to the player base.

I beg to differ. Over the last few years, CCP has been handing out drone bays like candy to every race and to many ships. This diluted the possibility of drones as a full-fledged weapon system (along missiles and turrets), but also made the drone skills a lot more important to a lot more players.

Plus, this upcoming expansion alone will add how many drone boats? One frig, two destroyers and something else? The next wave will see Myrmidon turned into a bigger drone boat, and Prophecy being changed into a maxi-Curse, from what I heard. This should increase drone usage even more.

Also, remember that when it comes to missions, many ships rely on drones to deal with smaller craft that get under the guns of the battleship. Yes, in some missions small ships can be picked off easily enough on approach, but in many missions you have spawns almost literally on top of you, and unless drones are effective at dealing with them (as they currently are on TQ), this could very well kill missioning as we know it. That is, after the flaw in the AI is fixed some time after Dec 4th. I've read reports of people losing their marauders because the drones got picked off almost immediately.

The way I see it, CCP just crafted themselves a double-edged sword:
- On one hand, if drones are too vulnerable, and too easy to lose, this will kill missioning, and they will lose a considerable number of subs.
- On the other hand, if drones are easily protected, via the exploitation of the AI flaw before the fix, and by some other means after the fix (like, for example if having an RR or EWAR makes drones de facto immune from pulling aggro, or if aggro switches every 2 mins and can be easily timed, etc., etc).

In both of these cases, the outcome is inferior to the current TQ state. It doesn't improve the quality of the experience, it doesn't make it harder. It just makes it impossible (case 1) or adds unnecessary work and hassle (case 2). In either case, the outcome for the player is a more negative experience compared to current TQ experience. In other words, it's a step back, not a step forward.

I'll grant them that this is probably just a first step. After AI is changed, the missions themselves can (and should) be changed. Fits for PvE and PvP will come closer to together. All that jazz. But let's be realistic - CCPs speed at these things is glacial at best. So it'll be a slow and painful process, and slow and painful tents to lead to lost subs. So I really don't think this change will work out for the best. Unless, that is, drones are overhauled to function differently from the way they do now.

So yeah, I'd say it should be a priority, if it isn't already. Especially in light of the ongoing ship rebalance. If they rebalance ships without changing drones, they'll need to do a whole another pass over all ships with drone bays (which means most of them) after the drone changes happen. But it doesn't look like they're going to do it that way.

Drones are a very sub-optimal weapons system for PvP. They're used extensively because it's 'free' damage, but you don't see many non-bonused PvP drone ships strapping on Drone Damage Amps IMO, they're really only used on drone-bonused PvE boats (Ishtar, the occasional Myrm, Domi, Rattler). You'd be a fool not to use drones in a PvP fight... but you're not going out of your way to make your drones stronger (except in the above cases, and likely not even then).



My opinion is it won't 'kill' missioning, but it will certainly make it less enjoyable. I'm less happy with all the unintended consequences.

However you look at it though, CCP is okay with the consequences. They've stated many times these changes will be deployed on Dec 4th, in their currently broken state, and they're perfectly fine deploying known broken code and fixing it 'later'. They haven't spent much time working on fixing it prior to Ret's deployment... because we've seen a raft of Dev Blogs from FoxFour (some were quite good, mind) but we've seen almost zero work on this one.



CCP would argue with you. This is the exact goal. It's more 'engaging'. Technically, it's exactly that. It's not exactly a welcome change, but it will make their boring / grindy missions a little more engaging. Engaging doesn't necessarily mean fun, btw.



In a perfect world we'd see this AI change accompanied with a reduction in the overall numbers of rats in missions, and an increase in the bounty per ship in missions... but that's work. So it's not happening anytime soon. More likely we'll see rats orbiting at 80km that have to be scrammed else they'll warp off and the mission will be failed. :CCP:

Same with the Drone AI overhaul. It'll probably happen someday, but there are so many sucking chest wounds to this game that it's a very low priority.

Actually Singira, I read that post yesterday. I swallowed my own vomit and went to the goon's version of Pravda.
And yes, I was very pleasantly surprised to read an extremely balanced, almost sage view of the game.
If all null sec players were like Malcanis, I would not be writing my diatribes against null sec zealots, because there would be no need.

Unfortunately, I also read the CSM's pdf they posted with their suggestions for CCP. It is a null sec zealot's wet dream.
The concepts and sentiments behind that document are the same ones that drive changes to the AI that we are seeing, and to wiping out high sec as a means of surviving in the game entirely.

Let me be clear. I do not believe that every pilot in null is a zealot bent on destroying high sec.
Quite the opposite. I have lived in null sec and wh's (was in FCON, and when in EUNI we had our 1st wh POS up 5 hours after Apocrypha went live) for over 2 years combined in my Eve playing career. The vast, vast majority of the players in null and wh's don't care about high sec one bit, and certainly don't hate it.

But we have an extremely powerful minority that ARE bent on wiping out high sec. Those are the zealots I speak of.
They are the ones that organize the propaganda campaigns against high sec, the ones that campaign to get onto the CSM, the ones that organize ice interdictions, hulkagedon, burn Jita, etc etc.

And this same group has recognized that they can accelerate the process from the inside.
Tell me, if a null sec zealot working at CCP is in a position to hire a content designer, who is he going to choose: someone who comes from the same background as him with the same views on high sec, or someone who has a high sec background and is supportive of that game style?

Also, I fully recognize that null players, especially solo ratters and plexers, are also going to get hammered.
But the same minority of null sec that hates high sec players typically do not have to grind ISK themselves.
They are the ones at the top of the null sec food chain, and care little for the grunts at the bottom.

So unfortunately, I don't think my views are off.
I wish they were, but list of changes that have occurred in the game in the past 18 months, and the ones slated, indicate to me that the null sec zealot agenda is moving forward in high gear.

Had one thought about the whole AI and drones and fits thing.

The way I understand it, the goal for the new AI is to make PvE much more like PvP, and eliminate what is known as "PvE fits". Which totally makes sense and I totally agree with. It's a good move. When I think of boat fits in Pirates of the Burning Sea (closest game to EVE that released in recent years), there were no PvE fits in that game, because PvE was exactly like PvP.

Now, I was reading another thread earlier about ratting in carriers and such. And the proposed answer was to repair drones/fighters as they're fighting. But, is that something one would be doing in PvP? What I mean is, consider a Vexor or a Myrm or a Domi, for example. You're in PvP, you deploy your drones, your drones start taking damage. Do you RR them, as a solution for that? CAN you keep drones alive under player fire with RR? I don't believe so, not in PvP. In PvE, maybe, possibly, depending on how the AI focuses fire. So in PvE you would fit RR, maybe, but in PvP you simply rely on the probable fact that you have more drones and enemy will die before you run out of drones.

How is that a problem with AI? Well, if in a drone boat, you would STILL have two distinct fits: PvE and PvP. PvE fit would include RR, and PvP fit would not. Which defeats the entire purpose of changing AI to eliminate the PvE-specific fits. In fact, if RR or EWAR is needed to draw AI aggro away from drones in PvE, PvE fits will have those modules as mandatory, while in PvP neither one will be required.

As I see it, that a direct failure of the AI change to perform the function it is intended for.

And they laughed when I bought precision cruise missiles......who's laughing now bwahahahahahahahaha

It's not the drone boats that I think are going to pop - its all the gun boats with frigs under their guns and nothing they can do about it (unless they read the test server feedback threads ) that are going to scream.

Yep, very much this.

I just hope to fix this issue they don't backpaddle on the AI vs drones change, but rather go ahead and fix the antiquated drone mechanics and UI.

There are a few Curse and Pilgrim fits that would like a word with you.