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Goons "legalising" botting!!

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Stella SGP
#21 - 2011-09-28 23:13:50 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
It's the implication of expulsion for reporting (which I repeat is CLEARLY IMPLIED) that is sooooo wrong!

Haven't you already realize that we live in a world where we have to spell everything out clearly?

Labels on a bottle of sleeping pills that says "Warning, may cause drowsiness"
Labels on bottles of beer that says "Consumption of alcoholic beverages impairs your ability to drive a car or operate machinery"
Labels on Lego toys that says "Choking hazard, do no swallow"
Labels on packets of peanuts that says "This product may contain trace amounts of peanuts and other tree nuts"
Labels on windshield covers that says "Never drive with the cover on your windshield"
Labels on Batman Halloween costumes that says "PARENT: Please exercise caution - mask and chest plate are not protective; cape does not enable wearer to fly"
Labels on hairdryers that says "Do no use in shower"
Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2011-09-28 23:16:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Cypermethren
Mara Tessidar wrote:
I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?




Kinda like putting a paper bag over you're head and saying that everyone looking at you cant see you purely because you cant see them?


Even tho the evidence given by yourselves, is right there infront of you.... deny till the end right?



I mean it worked for US Govt Re 9/11 not being an inside job right? Should work for the goons too!




and Stella SGP - those are mostly US Sanctioned warning labels, they have them over here too. Perhaps with Iceland tho there's less chance of inbreeding and retards getting into the FDA and polotics yes?
Quantessa
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-09-28 23:25:38 UTC
I don't support botting.

I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.

In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.

Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.

And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#24 - 2011-09-28 23:31:39 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?

I don't know what's more sad, this obvious troll or people falling for it. Ugh

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
The Apostle
Doomheim
#25 - 2011-09-28 23:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Quantessa wrote:
I don't support botting.

I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.

In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.

Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.

And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.

I'm surprised by the number of taking-it-out-of-context posts on this.

Here's what I said in TL;DR form. Whether you do/don't report bots is up to the individual. Whether an alliance/corp does/does not report or act against bots is up to them too.

But to threaten expulsion if you DO report is a totally different issue. That is NOT for a corp/alliance to say. EVER.

And I'll live with "legalising" is not the same as "outlawing reporting". Fair point.

I should have used "Botting is ratified (pun intended), supported, encouraged and protected by Goons OR ELSE".....

As for "voting for the CSM". Let's make it easier. How about we kick out the CSM members who DELIBERATELY ENCOURAGE AND SUPPORT botting.

Surely one of the CSM's briefs (from the majority of players) would be to acitvely rail against bots. Doesn't the CSM represent ALL players?

I'd be keen to see non-Goon CSM responses to this question.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Naglfar Nidhoggur
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-09-28 23:42:45 UTC
If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?
The Apostle
Doomheim
#27 - 2011-09-28 23:47:10 UTC
Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:
If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?


Quote:
And for the sensible Goons (are there any?), if you think you can be threatened with expulsion for bot-reporting, just remember that no CEO will know, or can know, if you reported the cheating, thieving SOB!!


QFT

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#28 - 2011-09-28 23:48:21 UTC
Everyone knows that the "Report Bot" button is totally anonymous? There is no way anyone can tell they lost their account because of what you did? So if you can get a spy into Goonswarm you fly about, report all the bots, and no one will be the wiser!

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Stella SGP
#29 - 2011-09-28 23:48:28 UTC
Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:
If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?

Sreegs
Cypermethren
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2011-09-28 23:53:33 UTC
Quantessa wrote:
I don't support botting.

I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.

In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.

Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.

And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.




But parking on a yellow line isnt hurting anyone.


Botting hurts other eve players and the ENTIRE economy in eve.


would your'e "mates" ethics get you to turn a blind eye to the fact a friend of yours held up the local grocer and robbed them?

would you're "mates" ethics prevent you from calling an ambulance for someone purely because the person is need is someone you and your mate absoltuely hate/loathe?


Rules are put in place for a reason, not to be pick/chosen on regards to the occasion, and certainly not to be ridiculed or scrutanized by complete randoms that think they know better purely because the rule doesnt tickle their fancy.


I think CCP should take rules against botting further:

If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.

in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.


Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#31 - 2011-09-29 00:00:18 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Quote:

I think CCP should take rules against botting further:

If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.

in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.

Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.

Bingo. Someone gets it.

This pro-bot "laugh-in-your-face" stance by Goons needs to be hard-lined by CCP. Right now.

The Goons on the CSM, OUR ELECTED (apparently) player representatives, need to be booted out. Period.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Stella SGP
#32 - 2011-09-29 00:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Stella SGP
The Apostle wrote:
Quote:

I think CCP should take rules against botting further:

If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.

in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.

Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.

Bingo. Someone gets it.

This pro-bot "laugh-in-your-face" stance by Goons needs to be hard-lined by CCP. Right now.

The Goons on the CSM, OUR ELECTED (apparently) player representatives, need to be booted out. Period.

EVE is Real! So many extremely keen hi-sec miners have been burned for this, but that's just fine, cause they were poor and unrepresented.
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#33 - 2011-09-29 00:09:54 UTC
I think there should a lever on the planetary Interaction Command center that we have to push down to pump out the stuff, You knowpush it down and watch it slowly rise back up. I'd also like to take repeat fire off of guns and the quote button out of the forums, WHile were at it Cut and Paste just has to go too. and that moongoo, Is there some way we can make every alliance member push down the moon goo lever too without remote control which reminds me, Can we remove remote mfg invention, PI and trade skills also?

Oh yeah, I support the Apostles view.

Oh yeah this autopilot thingie. either warp to zero or can it.
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#34 - 2011-09-29 00:12:56 UTC
I think this Goonswarm Federation take the game a bit too seriously.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Victoria Stecker
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2011-09-29 00:18:49 UTC
The Apostle wrote:


But to threaten expulsion if you DO report is a totally different issue. That is NOT for a corp/alliance to say. EVER.


I believe you're playing the wrong game. This is EVE. Here's what that means:

Players can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes theft, scams, griefing, etc.

Corporations can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes telling their members how to conduct themselves if they wish to remain a part of the corp.

Now, botting is against the EULA. However, failing to report someone for botting is not. Therefore, it is entirely within a corporation or alliances rights to demand that its members not report bots. If the members have a problem with it, the solution is simple: Leave the corp.

This is EVE. Deal With It™
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#36 - 2011-09-29 00:19:18 UTC
Maybe CCP should work to stop injection into the client and allow their game to be so easily botted. Before they start expecting pilots/corps/alliances to play space police for them.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
The Apostle
Doomheim
#37 - 2011-09-29 00:30:38 UTC
Quote:
Corporations can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes telling their members how to conduct themselves if they wish to remain a part of the corp.

No. I do not subscribe to this. The EULA is OUTSIDE of a corp/alliances responsibility.

Quote:
Now, botting is against the EULA. However, failing to report someone for botting is not. Therefore, it is entirely within a corporation or alliances rights to demand that its members not report bots. If the members have a problem with it, the solution is simple: Leave the corp.

The EULA must be a non-negotiable. If you do not agree with that then my words are wasted on explanation.

But condoning, promoting, securing and actively (and publically) protecting any activity that deliberately BREACHES the EULA as ALLIANCE POLICY must be stomped on.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#38 - 2011-09-29 00:37:19 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Quote:

I think CCP should take rules against botting further:

If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.

in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.

Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.

Bingo. Someone gets it.

This pro-bot "laugh-in-your-face" stance by Goons needs to be hard-lined by CCP. Right now.

The Goons on the CSM, OUR ELECTED (apparently) player representatives, need to be booted out. Period.


Your tears are delicious.

In a game where everyone bots; the only thing left to do is bot. Seriously, the onus is on CCP to fix the game, not the players.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2011-09-29 00:40:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:
If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?



Bot's are a "security" issue now. Who is on the security team? You answer that, and you'll have an answer to your question.

Don't ban me, bro!
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#40 - 2011-09-29 00:55:35 UTC
Goons want to destroy your game.
Their game however? Well that's a whole different story.

mittens being CSM chair would be an absolute tragedy if the CSM wasn't a laughing stock of a PR stunt.