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Goons "legalising" botting!!

First post First post
Author
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#181 - 2011-09-29 18:28:12 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.

Which means Goons are controlling your game. Big smile Just thought I'd remind you of that.



1: For some reason I like Mittens.

2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ildur Amaenar
Epidemic Inc.
#182 - 2011-09-29 18:31:54 UTC
Mara Tessidar wrote:
If Sreegs says this is a bad thread it must really be a bad thread Pirate

Or maybe he had a bad day at work, who knows.


Please give it a break. It`s not like you have smth to loose if this turns bad. Only a better, bottless game.

Ofc now a goon is needed that knew a bot and was rejected from the alliance because he tried to identify it.

Giving ISKies for to betray you alliance. This ofc after a dev/gm states clearly that threatening a person not to reveal a bot is wrong doing and is punishable with ban.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2011-09-29 18:33:22 UTC
Actually...the unfortunate fact of the matter is that because the Goon powerblock is what got him elected the first time he will likely get elected again in the same way. Unless every remaining player in EvE actually votes and doesn't vote for him he will again be the chairman.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#184 - 2011-09-29 18:43:19 UTC
Homo Erectus wrote:
f the coordinated wrong and the definition rewrite. how about a 30 byte addendum to the eula with something to the effect of "we reserve to smack the **** out of groups who condone or look the other way concerning botting". I'm sure your lawyers can reword that with style.

ps. the Somethingawful children are coordinated tick spawn, just as Eve University are coordinated puppy farts (re: powerblock issue voting).


We already reserve that right...

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012

Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#185 - 2011-09-29 18:49:22 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.

Which means Goons are controlling your game. Big smile Just thought I'd remind you of that.



1: For some reason I like Mittens.

2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected.



Yeah Goons aren't actually controlling the game and it's a rather old meme so I think it's time that one goes into the dustbin of history
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#186 - 2011-09-29 19:18:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Mara Tessidar wrote:
Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.

Which means Goons are controlling your game. Big smile Just thought I'd remind you of that.



1: For some reason I like Mittens.

2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected.



Yeah Goons aren't actually controlling the game and it's a rather old meme so I think it's time that one goes into the dustbin of history


Big smile

Edit: Yeah, if memory serves that originally was a bobism... which puts it's creation at roughly the same times as the invention of dirt.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Barbelo Valentinian
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#187 - 2011-09-29 19:29:12 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


We already reserve that right...


Expression of curiosity: weren't you leader of the Goons in EVE once?

Request for verification of personal reminiscence: Didn't you claim that your aim was for the Goons to "break EVE" or something?

Eager questioning: What happened with all that, and how come you're working for CCP now - and how can we trust you that your not still interested in "breaking EVE"?
Jita Alt666
#188 - 2011-09-29 19:34:07 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


We already reserve that right...


Expression of curiosity: weren't you leader of the Goons in EVE once?

Request for verification of personal reminiscence: Didn't you claim that your aim was for the Goons to "break EVE" or something?

Eager questioning: What happened with all that, and how come you're working for CCP now - and how can we trust you that your not still interested in "breaking EVE"?


Because the company that makes the game hired him. Or do you believe that CCP are so terrible they would actively hire people they know who are going to aim to destroy their products?

Also as he said himself : (paraphrased) "If you don't believe us that is your problem, get out side and take the tinfoil hat off"
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#189 - 2011-09-29 19:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentient Blade
Surely this entire topic comes down to asking this:

Bots are often initially identified to CCP thanks to the report of a third party. If a corporation, alliance or any other coordinated group has a policy of knowingly granting safe harbor to bots by the use of in-game mechanics to protect their activities, does this equate to a rule violation by those enforcing that safe harbor policy?

--

As a side note, can someone explain to me why they think that severely reducing botting would kill off the amount of EvE subscribers? Are the majority of these botting accounts not paid for by PLEX?
Jita Alt666
#190 - 2011-09-29 19:41:30 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
Surely this entire topic comes down to asking this:

Bots are often initially identified to CCP thanks to the report of a third party. If a corporation, alliance or any other coordinated group has a policy of knowingly granting safe harbor to bots by the use of in-game mechanics to protect their activities, does this equate to a rule violation by those enforcing that safe harbor policy?


To which the CCP guy has said: if there is evidence email us and we will take care of this.
Homo Erectus
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#191 - 2011-09-29 19:48:52 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Homo Erectus wrote:
f the coordinated wrong and the definition rewrite. how about a 30 byte addendum to the eula with something to the effect of "we reserve to smack the **** out of groups who condone or look the other way concerning botting". I'm sure your lawyers can reword that with style.

ps. the Somethingawful children are coordinated tick spawn, just as Eve University are coordinated puppy farts (re: powerblock issue voting).


We already reserve that right...


ok then stop with the fluffy posturing and push their stuff in. the goon memo is apples to apples and not only is it an admission of looking the other way, it's a threat of punishment if someone doesn't. and at this point you can follow up with the virtual groin kick with a real life finger to mittins. $$ in the pocket bringing them in, now you look like hostages.

i honestly dont see how you people aren't as tossed off in your ccp offices about this as we were when your internal porn got out. the csm czar supposed to be representing us to you, clowning us both.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#192 - 2011-09-29 19:53:07 UTC
Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.


We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2011-09-29 19:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
to put our policy in perspective last time there was a whole "report botters" thing we wound up with a director getting reported for botting and I think getting a temp ban

that would be fine if he hadn't been sitting in a station and hadn't shot a rat in years

goons being goons if we go "hey, feel free to report/shoot bots" we'll end up with an epidemic of blue on blue shooting and bullshit reporting so we're going to just dump it all on Sreegs lap and make him deal with it instead

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#194 - 2011-09-29 19:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
then he can deal with it or snort it up his nose as he sreegs fit

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#195 - 2011-09-29 20:03:07 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
to put our policy in perspective last time there was a whole "report botters" thing we wound up with a director getting reported for botting and I think getting a temp ban

that would be fine if he hadn't been sitting in a station and hadn't shot a rat in years

goons being goons if we go "hey, feel free to report/shoot bots" we'll end up with an epidemic of blue on blue shooting and bullshit reporting so we're going to just dump it all on Sreegs lap and make him deal with it instead


I'm not casting stones specifically at goons with this, your example could be anyone as far as I'm concerned.

1: Because his main hadn't shot a rat in years doesn't mean he does'nt run bots on other accounts.

2: If he hadn't ratted in years on any of his accounts, a CCP investigation would have instantly cleared him. Apparently it did not, so your assertions are in doubt. I'd be willing to go with just not remembering the details clearly (in other words, I'm not lighting a torch and calling you a purposeful liar).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2011-09-29 20:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Ranger 1 wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
to put our policy in perspective last time there was a whole "report botters" thing we wound up with a director getting reported for botting and I think getting a temp ban

that would be fine if he hadn't been sitting in a station and hadn't shot a rat in years

goons being goons if we go "hey, feel free to report/shoot bots" we'll end up with an epidemic of blue on blue shooting and bullshit reporting so we're going to just dump it all on Sreegs lap and make him deal with it instead


I'm not casting stones specifically at goons with this, your example could be anyone as far as I'm concerned.

1: Because his main hadn't shot a rat in years doesn't mean he does'nt run bots on other accounts.

2: If he hadn't ratted in years on any of his accounts, a CCP investigation would have instantly cleared him. Apparently it did not, so your assertions are in doubt. I'd be willing to go with just not remembering the details clearly (in other words, I'm not lighting a torch and calling you a purposeful liar).


I think he got hosed by a 'temp ban first, investigate later' sort of thing, which would be in line with a lot of internal complaining about people who have fallen afoul of ccp when they shouldn't have

i mean our finances are public you can see for yourself we couldn't care less how much people rat, legitimately or not: we have technetium (and a lot of it) and ratting income is just a handy faucet for keeping the main wallet at a good level while tech income is directed elsewhere

in other words, it saves me a single "transfer money" command every week or two, that's about it

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Homo Erectus
Evolution
Northern Coalition.
#197 - 2011-09-29 20:18:46 UTC
i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.

but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"

No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#198 - 2011-09-29 20:29:27 UTC
Homo Erectus wrote:
i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.

but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"

No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy.



Are you suggesting I allow our guys to take the law into their own hands and shoot allies based on their own opinions? "this jerk who keeps hanging around my ratting spot sure rats a lot, but I want this system I'll say he was a bot and take him out!"

This is not something I condone. Report bots. They have the technical ability to get rid of these jerks. I'm not interested in arbitrating drama.
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
#199 - 2011-09-29 20:37:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Mendolus
Homo Erectus wrote:
i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.

but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"

No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy.


Yes, I'm a Goonie alt, you got me! Lol

Just a second, I fell out of my chair and seem to have pulled a muscle laughing.

As Vile pointed out, giving thousands of players the green light to riddle one another with bullets (in game) for the blanket reason of "they were surely botting!" is nothing short of lunacy.

I do not directly know what goes on with botting at the coalition level, I only know what seems to make sense from a conjectural point of view, and secondhand accounts from people I know, but at the public level, they (Goonies) are just playing with fire, and nothing more, basically the only choice they have to be honest.

Player organizations cannot function in the long term without solidarity of some kind, and giving thousands of players permission to pummel one another for any reason imaginable under the guise of what would amount to a witch hunt, is pretty absurd.

They are taking the lesser of two evils, but Mittani likes making cool story posts, which means people who think or take him at 100% face value are likely to misunderstand the point entirely.

What goes on behind the scenes is anyone's guess, but publicly they have done nothing wrong as far as I am concerned, though I would love if the thousands of members of GSF were capable of policing themselves at an individual level, I have no illusions that hundreds and hundreds of those same members probably have the mental faculties of a goldfish and would just run around shooting anyone that appears to be a carebear at all just for the lulz, so let the high command sort through it all and send it in a big lump report to CCP directly, as noted.

...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie.

Contemno Addo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#200 - 2011-09-29 20:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Contemno Addo
see below