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Local or no local... Dust 514 decides?
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Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-09-03 13:15:27 UTC
How hard is it to simply remove the damn local and get it over and done with?

From a gameplay perspective, local is indeed a massive flaw on several levels, and on top it contributes to other problems related to it.

Information about who/what is in a system is something that should be gathered, not given for free. Not in a game like EVE anyway. Yet local does exactly that and is even an aid for the smarter botters.
The cat-and-mouse relation between a hunter and the hunted or the sneaky ones is also more or less eliminated entirely.

"Hi boys and girls, I am in your system now, but it's cool, I have a cloak!" is just...no.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2012-09-03 13:18:40 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
How hard is it to simply remove the damn local and get it over and done with?

From a gameplay perspective, local is indeed a massive flaw on several levels, and on top it contributes to other problems related to it.

Information about who/what is in a system is something that should be gathered, not given for free. Not in a game like EVE anyway. Yet local does exactly that and is even an aid for the smarter botters.
The cat-and-mouse relation between a hunter and the hunted or the sneaky ones is also more or less eliminated entirely.

"Hi boys and girls, I am in your system now, but it's cool, I have a cloak!" is just...no.


"I didn't read the thread, I'll just give the same tired arguments everybody else does."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-09-03 13:47:53 UTC
Topic's derailed already anyway, and besides, my point stands valid even on topic as the "Dust" suggestion is a very poor band-aid at best.
alittlebirdy
All Hail The Liopleurodon
#64 - 2012-09-04 05:03:48 UTC
Dust is a waste of money and dev time...

It will fail

EvE is only around still because nothing else like it exists...

With all the bugs and bullshit from eve... if something JUST LIKE IT existed I be gone.

Enter dust... a FPS.... if one FPS exists 200 have to... what is going to make DUST something people want to play?

Nothing.

The local intel as well is pointless... all the bug guys have spys... the spy will just tell the fleet comp and what is where... all CCP would do is make a new job for spys...

Again more big alliance ****...

I mean really people ask yourself if something just like eve existed... with all the bugs, issues, etc would you stay with eve? Or whould you go to something better? lol...

That is gona be dust.

Really IMHO ccp knew eve players were gona get dust... I bet ya they just hope to get money from eve and dust subs... and what ever few people join up and stay that just a bonus.
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-09-04 05:40:29 UTC
I cant talk about it because of NDA, but I tried dust now and am kind of stocked for it; especially if CCP keeps improving it and integrating it with Eve.

Here's to hoping Dust is a success.

James315 for CSM 8!
Theodoric Darkwind
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-09-05 01:57:45 UTC
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
The kind of people who want to get rid of local in null never actually hold sov or hang out in npc 0.0 and they never will so i dont understand this obsession


99% of the geniuses who make the "remove 0.0 local" posts have probably never been to null, the rest are small time pirates who think they should be given a free ratter kill every time they jump into a system.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-09-05 08:03:38 UTC
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
How hard is it to simply remove the damn local and get it over and done with?

From a gameplay perspective, local is indeed a massive flaw on several levels, and on top it contributes to other problems related to it.

Information about who/what is in a system is something that should be gathered, not given for free. Not in a game like EVE anyway. Yet local does exactly that and is even an aid for the smarter botters.
The cat-and-mouse relation between a hunter and the hunted or the sneaky ones is also more or less eliminated entirely.

"Hi boys and girls, I am in your system now, but it's cool, I have a cloak!" is just...no.




Do you even realise without local you're not promoting small gang/solo pvp but massive blobbing?
You clearly didn't even though for a second the reason why players would move from point A to point B an how. Let me tell you exactly what you are asking for:

Strategic gates permanently camped/bbled from 0 to 150 off gate, massive gate camping/ganking, pipes perma camped etc, thank you very much you've just annihilated solo/small gang pvp. You're awesome.

The case of WH's is completely different, wherever you are in the only way for someone to come blow your ****** pos is by getting there in massive numbers, witch is impossible in most cases on a single run witch gives you more time then needed to get prepared/collapse your crap hole and eventually deal with your invaders.
It's another thing to deal with a 1000men and sometimes+bridge poping on top of your head or even deal with structure notifications when alliance level structures are at numbers and levels you clearly don't have a clue.

You're simple creating more problems for players trying to get or already living there than there already are.

brb
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#68 - 2012-09-05 08:55:03 UTC
Will we ever do something to disrupt DUST or is it a one-way street of them affecting us all the time? DUST always going to be the little brother of EVE or ever a game by itself?

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2012-09-14 05:47:18 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:


Do you even realise without local you're not promoting small gang/solo pvp but massive blobbing?
You clearly didn't even though for a second the reason why players would move from point A to point B an how. Let me tell you exactly what you are asking for:

Strategic gates permanently camped/bbled from 0 to 150 off gate, massive gate camping/ganking, pipes perma camped etc, thank you very much you've just annihilated solo/small gang pvp. You're awesome.

The case of WH's is completely different, wherever you are in the only way for someone to come blow your ****** pos is by getting there in massive numbers, witch is impossible in most cases on a single run witch gives you more time then needed to get prepared/collapse your crap hole and eventually deal with your invaders.
It's another thing to deal with a 1000men and sometimes+bridge poping on top of your head or even deal with structure notifications when alliance level structures are at numbers and levels you clearly don't have a clue.

You're simple creating more problems for players trying to get or already living there than there already are.


Local or no local does nothing to the existence of blobs or gatecamps. Those would not be increased or decreased, so don't bother trying to argue otherwise. What it does do is make intel harder, make it harder to know where your big blob is supposed to go, and make it more fun to do so. It would make easier for individuals to slip by scouts.

If you start to argue that these cloakers can pop a cyno and hotdrop you, then that undermines the argument that cloakers can't hurt anybody.. In short, things are not simple so don't try to claim that they are.

ps. Everything in Eve goes both ways. It's trouble for you? Then its also trouble for them.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2012-09-14 10:53:14 UTC
Nyla Skin wrote:
Local or no local does nothing to the existence of blobs or gatecamps. Those would not be increased or decreased, so don't bother trying to argue otherwise. What it does do is make intel harder, make it harder to know where your big blob is supposed to go, and make it more fun to do so. It would make easier for individuals to slip by scouts.

What it would do is depopulate null even further, while making no impact on blobs and minimal effects on gatecamps. It wouldn't improve fun for anyone in the long run.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-09-14 10:57:12 UTC
Theodoric Darkwind wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
The kind of people who want to get rid of local in null never actually hold sov or hang out in npc 0.0 and they never will so i dont understand this obsession


99% of the geniuses who make the "remove 0.0 local" posts have probably never been to null, the rest are small time pirates who think they should be given a free ratter kill every time they jump into a system.



I am the 1% Lol


Remove local please!
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#72 - 2012-09-14 11:01:51 UTC
James 315 wrote:
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows. Smile


good greif, do you even play eve?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2012-09-14 11:02:50 UTC
eddie valvetino wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows. Smile


good greif, do you even play eve?

[Tell] us how no local would hurt an alliance.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#74 - 2012-09-14 11:10:38 UTC  |  Edited by: eddie valvetino
Lord Zim wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows. Smile


good greif, do you even play eve?

[Tell] us how no local would hurt an alliance.


tell me

Do you have scouts sat on every gate in your system? do you have a new mod that lets you see covert cynos?

Some people have posted in here, that allainces don't need local, cos they have voice and intell channels, tell me do these channels flag up and tell you when ships jump into your local or is it worse than that and 0.0 allaince do use local for intell?

How do botters and ratters, tell when they have hositles in their system?

ALL of the above require a local chat system, if only for the local count.

To be honest, any allaince that was really screwed up by removing local, need to move to high sec.

However fact is, local is a basic and vital intell tool for many.

The fact you don't get this, makes you look like a ****

edit and p.s.

Does make me smile when a guy with 178 kills, tells a guy with over 7000 kills about eve... I mean, what have you been doing for the past 6 or 7 years, your toon is not new... how can you be so poorly informed?

p.p.s This is where, i get told your have a main with a bazillion kills... yadda yadda... POST WITH HIM!!!!
LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2012-09-14 11:21:51 UTC
eddie valvetino wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows. Smile


good greif, do you even play eve?

[Tell] us how no local would hurt an alliance.


tell me

Do you have scouts sat on every gate in your system? do you have a new mod that lets you see covert cynos?

Some people have posted in here, that allainces don't need local, cos they have voice and intell channels, tell me do these channels flag up and tell you when ships jump into your local?

How do botters and ratters, tell when they have hositles in their system?

ALL of the above require a local chat system, if only for the local count.

To be honest, any allaince that was really screwed up by removing local, need to move to high sec.

However fact is, local is a basic and vital intell tool for many.

The fact you don't get this, makes you look like a ****

edit and p.s.

Does make me smile when a guy with 178 kills, tells a guy with over 7000 kills about eve... I mean, what have you been doing for the past 6 or 7 years, your toon is not new... how can you be so poorly informed?

p.p.s This is where, i get told your have a main with a bazillion kills... yadda yadda... POST WITH HIM!!!!



I thought about local myself for a very long time and all I can see is benefits with removing it, yes for the small guy. I think if anyone is taking great advantage of local these days it is big alliances, a lot more than small ones. Just check intel channels if you have any, 99% (lol) of all reporting is reporting people in local chat with a nice "nv"=no vision next to system name, who they are, corp, heck check their KB and you will guess correctly 90% of the time what they are even flying without using d-scan or seeing them on grid.

Local on a design level to me also goes against what EVE Online is about. SInce beta game has become more safe every year. Also more blobs, and don't tell me it is because more and bigger alliances play EVE these days, ASCN had what? more members than test at the time if not mistaken.

Anyway, remove local, if you want to improve scanning at the same time and stuff like that fine, but just remove it already. Will it make EVE harder? yes, for every one? yes, but I think the payoff for the small guy is better and I also think the fun factor would be increased.

But maybe I am just speaking on behalf of 1%? Sad
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2012-09-14 11:24:20 UTC
eddie valvetino wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows. Smile


good greif, do you even play eve?

[Tell] us how no local would hurt an alliance.


tell me

Do you have scouts sat on every gate in your system? do you have a new mod that lets you see covert cynos?

Some people have posted in here, that allainces don't need local, cos they have voice and intell channels, tell me do these channels flag up and tell you when ships jump into your local?

How do botters and ratters, tell when they have hositles in their system?

ALL of the above require a local chat system, if only for the local count.

Bots don't need a local chat system, no. They can dscan much, much more efficiently than humans can. Not that this matters any, since a vast majority of nullsec makes their personal money in hisec, not nullsec, and if they don't, they would if local was removed, quite simply because the effort of keeping safe would require so much work it would be positively ******** to not say **** it and farm FW or L4s instead.

eddie valvetino wrote:
edit and p.s.

Does make me smile when a guy with 178 kills, tells a guy with over 7000 kills about eve... I mean, what have you been doing for the past 6 or 7 years, your toon is not new... how can you be so poorly informed?

p.p.s This is where, i get told your have a main with a bazillion kills... yadda yadda... POST WITH HIM!!!!

GUYS GUYS MY KILLBOARD GUYS IT MAKES ME GOOD AT EVE GUYS GUYS

I always enjoy it when people bring up this particular ad hominem, as if that proves anything.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
eddie valvetino
Victory or Whatever
Nourv Gate Security Commission
#77 - 2012-09-14 11:24:33 UTC
LilRemmy wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
eddie valvetino wrote:
James 315 wrote:
I don't think shutting down local would actually hurt an alliance, since they usually use out-of-game voice comms or alliance/fleet chat windows. Smile


good greif, do you even play eve?

[Tell] us how no local would hurt an alliance.


tell me

Do you have scouts sat on every gate in your system? do you have a new mod that lets you see covert cynos?

Some people have posted in here, that allainces don't need local, cos they have voice and intell channels, tell me do these channels flag up and tell you when ships jump into your local?

How do botters and ratters, tell when they have hositles in their system?

ALL of the above require a local chat system, if only for the local count.

To be honest, any allaince that was really screwed up by removing local, need to move to high sec.

However fact is, local is a basic and vital intell tool for many.

The fact you don't get this, makes you look like a ****

edit and p.s.

Does make me smile when a guy with 178 kills, tells a guy with over 7000 kills about eve... I mean, what have you been doing for the past 6 or 7 years, your toon is not new... how can you be so poorly informed?

p.p.s This is where, i get told your have a main with a bazillion kills... yadda yadda... POST WITH HIM!!!!



I thought about local myself for a very long time and all I can see is benefits with removing it, yes for the small guy. I think if anyone is taking great advantage of local these days it is big alliances, a lot more than small ones. Just check intel channels if you have any, 99% (lol) of all reporting is reporting people in local chat with a nice "nv"=no vision next to system name, who they are, corp, heck check their KB and you will guess correctly 90% of the time what they are even flying without using d-scan or seeing them on grid.

Local on a design level to me also goes against what EVE Online is about. SInce beta game has become more safe every year. Also more blobs, and don't tell me it is because more and bigger alliances play EVE these days, ASCN had what? more members than test at the time if not mistaken.

Anyway, remove local, if you want to improve scanning at the same time and stuff like that fine, but just remove it already. Will it make EVE harder? yes, for every one? yes, but I think the payoff for the small guy is better and I also think the fun factor would be increased.

But maybe I am just speaking on behalf of 1%? Sad


you got my vote, i'll be in that 1%

I'd see local removed from everywhere but high sec... in fact, anywhere that can be cyno'd too
LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2012-09-14 11:27:33 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Bots don't need a local chat system, no. They can dscan much, much more efficiently than humans can.


What?


That bot would be a dead bot.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2012-09-14 11:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
It would take more time to die than it would take a human. Well, except, humans are generally cleverer than that and moved their isk making alts to hisec years ago.

So, still waiting for why this would hurt an alliance. Actual reasons, not reasons which have no root in how eve is played today.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2012-09-14 11:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: LilRemmy
Lord Zim wrote:
It would take more time than it would take a human. Well, except, humans are generally cleverer than that and moved their isk making alts to hisec years ago.

So, still waiting for why this would hurt an alliance. Actual reasons, not reasons which have no root in how eve is played today.



That would require you to know how game mechanics work and how big alliances make the bulk of their income. Sorry for my attitude, but I feel you kinda deserve it to an extent reading your previous comments including this one. Besides, arguing that it has no effect because they have alts doing missions or something in highsec is pretty dumb, that is what people do not involved in nullsec or lowsec already.

I also want to make a point, removing local in my view makes it easier for the small guy but in general more difficult for every one. It is not meant to solve something you seem to be after, nerfing big alliances to the point where blobbing and teamwork is on par with a guy soloing, nor should it be. Big alliances WILL ALWAYS and SHOULD ALWAYS have advantages to it, but it should also mean more work for them, which having no local would result in.