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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#301 - 2012-09-02 09:42:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Give the nature of the CSM I believe it is worth having as much player involvement in the elections as we can get.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make ignorant eve players not be ignorant.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#302 - 2012-09-02 09:43:13 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
I consider myself to be one of Lenin's Lumpen Proletariat.

I aspire to be a peasant, preferably one of the Kulak class.

According to the political theory of Marxism-Leninism of the early 20th century, the kulaks were class enemies of the poorer peasants.[1] Vladimir Lenin described them as "bloodsuckers, vampires, plunderers of the people and profiteers, who fatten on famine.”

Wikipedia always good.


Given the name of my character, you may safely assume I knew thisSmile

Will admit I didn't. Well at least if the Voters get educated and still don't vote, when they complain like peasants always do, we will just blame it on youLol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Josef Djugashvilis
#303 - 2012-09-02 09:43:45 UTC
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that all the hi-sec folk (those stupid folk who do not care about Eve etc) did decide to vote, and voted en masse for a candidate who wanted pvp in hi- sec to be consensual only, would this be acceptable?

Them bein' in the majority an' all.

This is not a signature.
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#304 - 2012-09-02 09:44:00 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


Maybe you require re-education as well.Lol



My level of education is not in question.

Your ability to understand a coherent and structured conversation however, maybe. I say this only because you apparently missed where I pointed out that "The CSM has been around for over 6 years now". This says volumes to the rest of us about how many players "choose" to participate at the level required for them to consider the CSM to be something they need to care about.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Frying Doom
#305 - 2012-09-02 09:44:37 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Give the nature of the CSM I believe it is worth having as much player involvement in the elections as we can get.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make ignorant eve players not be ignorant.

I would like them led, then they can chose. If they are still lazy, well then aren't peasants always.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#306 - 2012-09-02 09:45:55 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


Maybe you require re-education as well.Lol



My level of education is not in question.

Your ability to understand a coherent and structured conversation however, maybe. I say this only because you apparently missed where I pointed out that "The CSM has been around for over 6 years now". This says volumes to the rest of us about how many players "choose" to participate at the level required for them to consider the CSM to be something they need to care about.

And as I said some people may have real lives and they don't wish to use the tiny amount of time they have looking up something that they may consider is irrelevant.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#307 - 2012-09-02 09:46:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Give the nature of the CSM I believe it is worth having as much player involvement in the elections as we can get.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make ignorant eve players not be ignorant.

I would like them led, then they can chose. If they are still lazy, well then aren't peasants always.

They are being lead, they are still lazy.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#308 - 2012-09-02 09:49:08 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that all the hi-sec folk (those stupid folk who do not care about Eve etc) did decide to vote, and voted en masse for a candidate who wanted pvp in hi- sec to be consensual only, would this be acceptable?

Them bein' in the majority an' all.

Then that is between their candidate, the CSM and CCP. As the CSM does not tell CCP what to do but more how the players will respond and what our current concerns are.

I think it would be complete crap but if the Hi-secers really wanted it, I presume CCP would find a middle ground to try to placitate as many as they could.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#309 - 2012-09-02 09:50:02 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Give the nature of the CSM I believe it is worth having as much player involvement in the elections as we can get.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make ignorant eve players not be ignorant.

I would like them led, then they can chose. If they are still lazy, well then aren't peasants always.

They are being lead, they are still lazy.

But at this point we have no evidence that they are aware of the nature and purpose of the CSM. Educate them and leave no doubt.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#310 - 2012-09-02 09:51:09 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


Maybe you require re-education as well.Lol



My level of education is not in question.

Your ability to understand a coherent and structured conversation however, maybe. I say this only because you apparently missed where I pointed out that "The CSM has been around for over 6 years now". This says volumes to the rest of us about how many players "choose" to participate at the level required for them to consider the CSM to be something they need to care about.

And as I said some people may have real lives and they don't wish to use the tiny amount of time they have looking up something that they may consider is irrelevant.



If that is the case, these very same people you wish to "lead" would also not use their "tiny amount of time" looking up countless pages of forum posts by potential CSM candidates before making a decision on who to vote for. And thus we are right back where we started. With you wilfully ignoring the plain and simple truth. That the choice has always been there, and people choose not to look.

Now since it is also apparent that you have no intention of carrying on intelligent discourse on this matter, I shall leave you to the gentle ministrations of Lord Zim.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Frying Doom
#311 - 2012-09-02 09:54:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Cutter Isaacson wrote:

If that is the case, these very same people you wish to "lead" would also not use their "tiny amount of time" looking up countless pages of forum posts by potential CSM candidates before making a decision on who to vote for. And thus we are right back where we started. With you wilfully ignoring the plain and simple truth. That the choice has always been there, and people choose not to look.

Now since it is also apparent that you have no intention of carrying on intelligent discourse on this matter, I shall leave you to the gentle ministrations of Lord Zim.

After they decide to Vote they would go to a page similar to that of last years with a link to that candidates compatible thing. as well as the candidates little speeches. They would from them get a general idea of what the candidates are like, if they then chose to delve deeper they could but at least they would be all informed.

Edit: I did not mean to ignore your post but it is hard to read articles and have multiple conversations at the same time.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#312 - 2012-09-02 09:57:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Andski wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Leaving over 80% of the population out of the voting process makes no sense considering it would be rather easy to know how many are apathetic and how many just don't know.


They're not being left out. They're blatantly being asked to participate and they choose to ignore it.

Already been over the Banners on login ect.. Andski.

If people do not know what a CSM is how do they know what they are not voting for.


Why do you want people who are so indifferent to the process participating in it? What good result do you expect?

Not sure if I answered this already but I expect education.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#313 - 2012-09-02 09:57:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Frying Doom wrote:
And as I said some people may have real lives and they don't wish to use the tiny amount of time they have looking up something that they may consider is irrelevant.

Sucks to be them.

Frying Doom wrote:
But at this point we have no evidence that they are aware of the nature and purpose of the CSM. Educate them and leave no doubt.

Actually, I'd argue we have plenty of evidence that a large portion of the playerbase don't give a flying **** about the CSM, and nothing CCP can do will make a lick of difference.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Frying Doom
#314 - 2012-09-02 10:04:46 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:

Dear oh dear, you really are struggling with this crutch of yours. SiSi is not, and has not ever been covered by your subscription fee. It is a privilege in every sense of the word and access to it will never be guaranteed in any way shape or form. If SiSi goes down for whatever reason CCP have always stated exactly as I have just done. It is NOT a right.

Now compare that to the forums and TQ. If service to either of those is interrupted CCP take immediate steps to ensure its swift reactivation, as that is what your subscription fee allows you access to. Did I make that clear enough for you? Insisting that people who do not frequent SiSi are the same as those who choose not to use the forums is an asinine and weak argument, one that you had lost before the thought entered your head.

I was using SiSi as an example of the fact that if you exclude people from something for one thing it is just as easy to exclude more people for smaller things. Till you get to the point 1 person is voting because no one else is qualified. Hello El Presidente.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:
People who make a conscious choice to not access the services covered by their subscription have clearly already decided on the level of participation they wish to have in the game. It is they who distinguish themselves, purposely, from the rest of the player base. My highlighting this readily apparent fact only aggravates you because I think you realise the futility of your argument.

Or they just presume it is like every other game where the forums are useless crap.

Cutter Isaacson wrote:
As I and many others have made abundantly clear, the information is readily available to those who choose to seek it out. It is not as if details concerning the CSM are kept locked in a safe buried under a mountain on an asteroid on the outer edges of the solar system. You are complaining about "educating" a proportion of the player base who have already decided that they wish to have no dealings in such matters.

No one here is saying that it wouldn't be nice if more people voted in the elections, of course that would be good, but to insist that CCP are somehow at fault and that they could "do more" is laughable at best, not to mention insulting to those who have clearly decided upon the level at which they wish to interact with the community.


Do you see yourself as a missionary of some sort, bringing the gospel of the CSM to the unwashed tribesmen? [/quote]
To those who choose to seek it out. This leaves doubt as to whether all are educated and I do not see the worry as to why you would not want people educated. In real life we are all educated on politics growing up. It maybe very slanted but we know what our fat overpaid politicians are supposed to do.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Josef Djugashvilis
#315 - 2012-09-02 10:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
And as I said some people may have real lives and they don't wish to use the tiny amount of time they have looking up something that they may consider is irrelevant.

Sucks to be them.

Frying Doom wrote:
But at this point we have no evidence that they are aware of the nature and purpose of the CSM. Educate them and leave no doubt.

Actually, I'd argue we have plenty of evidence that a large portion of the playerbase don't give a flying **** about the CSM, and nothing CCP can do will make a lick of difference.


I would like to be able to disagree with this statement, (I would like more player involvement in our game) but all the evidence suggests it is true.

This is not a signature.
Frying Doom
#316 - 2012-09-02 10:06:13 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
And as I said some people may have real lives and they don't wish to use the tiny amount of time they have looking up something that they may consider is irrelevant.

Sucks to be them.

Frying Doom wrote:
But at this point we have no evidence that they are aware of the nature and purpose of the CSM. Educate them and leave no doubt.

Actually, I'd argue we have plenty of evidence that a large portion of the playerbase don't give a flying **** about the CSM, and nothing CCP can do will make a lick of difference.

What is a large portion. All I would like to see is them all to have the chance to be educated so we can happily sneer and make fun of those who are to ignorant to vote.

Oh and giving us a representative CSM Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#317 - 2012-09-02 10:13:38 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Why do you want people who are so indifferent to the process participating in it? What good result do you expect?

Not sure if I answered this already but I expect education.Lol


No, you want to abdicate personal responsibility.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Frying Doom
#318 - 2012-09-02 10:20:03 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Why do you want people who are so indifferent to the process participating in it? What good result do you expect?

Not sure if I answered this already but I expect education.Lol


No, you want to abdicate personal responsibility.

Some EvE players may not be aware that they have a responsibility and as this is one of the few games where the forums are a part of the games I believe that slack should be given and the players educated.

After all do not governments around the world educate their populous to the dangers of things like smoking or why you should wear a seat belt or for that matter why you should make your voice heard by voting.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#319 - 2012-09-02 10:26:05 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Some EvE players may not be aware that they have a responsibility and as this is one of the few games where the forums are a part of the games I believe that slack should be given and the players educated.


In almost every online game I've played it's made sense to read the related forum.

Quote:
After all do not governments around the world educate their populous to the dangers of things like smoking


And they're quite happy for everyone to ignore this and continue giving them huge amounts of tax revenue. Your point?

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2012-09-02 10:26:32 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
What is a large portion.

80%?

Frying Doom wrote:
All I would like to see is them all to have the chance to be educated so we can happily sneer and make fun of those who are to ignorant to vote.

They do, and we can. In fact, I am.

Frying Doom wrote:
Oh and giving us a representative CSM Lol

What's disrepresentative of the last two CSMs?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat