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NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#221 - 2012-09-02 02:09:40 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? Forum posts? Global Eve mails? Immersion-breaking ads in space or in CQ? A section in the tutorial about an event that happens once a year?


I almost missed that what has the Sansha got to go with the CSM, that is a stupid add it makes it look like the CSM is only for incursion runners, and again with the other one what is the council of stellar management. I have no shares in Stellar management, do you? Why would I care about a corp called Stellar management?

So, just to be clear who we appear to be talking about:

It's an Eve player who has never heard of The Mittani and CSM antics, has never read a recent article about Eve in a gaming news source, doesn't read Eve forums (official or not), doesn't pay attention to the login splash ads, doesn't pay attention to the Eve news items, doesn't read Eve's Facebook page or Twitter feed, the Eve subreddit or a number of other social media outlets, doesn't know about the main things that make Eve stand out from other games, and either interacts with no people or with people who fulfill all the above criteria.

And this person represents the majority of hisec, and this is why they didn't vote or didn't know about Burn Jita upcoming... because they didn't know that these things existed?

It is extremely hard to believe that there are so many absolutely clueless and cut off from a game which requires a substantial amount of personal investment. Rather, it is much easier to believe that most people have come across the CSM, Burn Jita, or whatever other exampler we're using, but were disinterested or didn't bother to look into it because it didn't have to do with what they were doing at that time.

So, how do you reach out to someone like that? I have no clue, and I do not believe it to be possible without plastering the game with " HEY! HEY, LISTEN! GO VOTE FOR THE CSM! HEY LISTEN!".

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#222 - 2012-09-02 02:11:45 UTC
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2012-09-02 02:16:46 UTC  |  Edited by: betoli
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
betoli wrote:
Seriously in game is the best way to reach players. A button on the char select page "Place your CSM vote here" with the same prominence as we get when CCP actually want us to bother doing something. Make it a part of the game, not a part of the meta game.

You mean like the big login banners, and the news items on the right of the character selection screens that nobody ever reads? (I miss them sometimes, too).


I also never read them. MY brain just subtracts them from the image my retina sends.

But there is a reason for this - normally the content there is uninteresting, and so one day the fact that it might be interesting goes unnoticed. Thats why it doesn't work - its just bad marketing by CCP. It needs unique prominence.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

Unawareness is caused by apathy. "They wouldn't be so apathetic if only they were aware" is irrelevant if they are not willing to click a button and read a page of info on the CSM and its candidates.


Which as we both agreed is in a place neither of us ever look at......

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

If someone is playing Eve like an instant-satisfaction single player game where they log on, do something for an immediate "win", then log off, and shut out everything longer term or having to do with the game community they're part of, they're bound to miss important non-short-term news: the CSM elections, Jita being a shitstorm, balance changes, etc. When things happen and take them by surprise, they really have nobody to blame other than themselves. The only way to reach people like this is via super-intrusive ads that might be ignored anyway, and just bother the rest of the playerbase.


I agree on all those other topics. But there is no reason to expect players to read the boards. If they gain advantage by doing so cool - thats a time investment reward.

Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I'm trying to give hisec players the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they are legitimately handicapped by not communicating with others in a massively multiplayer game (who'd have thought?).

So... how do you solve it? How do you let them all know to get off their asses and vote, so the CSM reflects the proper Eve demographics?


No you want them to read and pay attention to ads that you just confessed you don't always see, AND you want them to communicate, not in-game, but out of game.

You put the information somewhere that people associate with important information in a format thats easily digestible and relevant - ie not on an out of game discussion board mainly filled with trolls and bollocks, or an ad location that's normally full of irrelevant crapo. This is a marketing issue, and it isn't given the prominence it should be - there are loads of ways of doing this that aren't immersion breaking.

Whats the voting percentage again? Is it more than 10%??? How does that compare to the number of players who manage to collect a freebie at Christmas? See where I'm going there.... ? The fundamental point is that calling voter apathy is a cop out for bad information presentation - either that or just resign yourself to the fact that only the die hards (mainly vets) will pay attention.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#224 - 2012-09-02 02:18:04 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve

Electoral systems IRL are meant to bring balance to elections in which areas with too low population do not have enough say in things because they are so few
.


methinks your definition of electoral voting need better defining:
An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there



I have an alt in highsec. Am I allowed to vote with it?
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#225 - 2012-09-02 02:19:17 UTC
Also if you don't see how an electoral system is incredibly bad, especially if there are only 300k potential voters you are pretty stupid.
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#226 - 2012-09-02 02:22:38 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.


Exactly!
betoli
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#227 - 2012-09-02 02:27:17 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve

Electoral systems IRL are meant to bring balance to elections in which areas with too low population do not have enough say in things because they are so few
.


methinks your definition of electoral voting need better defining:
An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there



I have an alt in highsec. Am I allowed to vote with it?


This approach would mean an *account* having to state its location, and every candidate having to state which location they are standing for. Not necessarily a bad thing, but easily abused given that Eve players don't have a residential address.



DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#228 - 2012-09-02 02:31:16 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:

I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people?


I almost missed that what has the Sansha got to go with the CSM, that is a stupid add it makes it look like the CSM is only for incursion runners,


lol I don't recall either of those banners.... TBH I think I treat the banners like I do any internet ad & don'teven see them anymore. Maybe if we told all miners that Hulks would get NERFed again if they don't vote next election they'd actually vote Twisted
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Frying Doom
#229 - 2012-09-02 02:39:26 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
Also if you don't see how an electoral system is incredibly bad, especially if there are only 300k potential voters you are pretty stupid.

You don't believe that an election system that is so easy to rig is incredibly bad?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#230 - 2012-09-02 02:46:55 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.

COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT
YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT
"Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****."

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#231 - 2012-09-02 03:30:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.

COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT
YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT
"Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****."

Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation?

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#232 - 2012-09-02 03:46:33 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation?

Yellow text on a black background.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#233 - 2012-09-02 03:50:26 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.

COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT
YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT
"Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****."

Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation?

Jesus Christ, stop making excuses.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Arakkis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#234 - 2012-09-02 03:51:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
that face


OP seems to have hit a level of bitter so high that his face has collapsed into itself...



his face is tantamount to a black hole? lol

Your still a child in the eyes of the universe
Frying Doom
#235 - 2012-09-02 04:00:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.

COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT
YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT
"Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****."

Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation?

Jesus Christ, stop making excuses.

How is that an excuse, people who do not follow the forums and even then the CSM only comes up at certain times, would have no idea what the Council of Stellar management is.

The name by its self means nothing, people need education, not people saying that because they did not vote they just don't care. Some people I presume did not vote because they do not care but how many of the 83.37% of accounts that did not vote in the last election, did not vote because they did not care or did not understand what the CSM was or believed the CSM was only to do with Null sec, I do not know and neither do you.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2012-09-02 04:03:03 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.

COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT
YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT
"Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****."

Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation?

Jesus Christ, stop making excuses.

How is that an excuse, people who do not follow the forums and even then the CSM only comes up at certain times, would have no idea what the Council of Stellar management is.

The name by its self means nothing, people need education, not people saying that because they did not vote they just don't care. Some people I presume did not vote because they do not care but how many of the 83.37% of accounts that did not vote in the last election, did not vote because they did not care or did not understand what the CSM was or believed the CSM was only to do with Null sec, I do not know and neither do you.

This game isn't for people who can't be bothered to learn anything themselves.
If they didn't care that's their ******* problem and they get to suffer the consequences.
That's just the way it is. If you think there should be more education about the CSM then maybe YOU should take charge.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Frying Doom
#237 - 2012-09-02 04:14:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

This game isn't for people who can't be bothered to learn anything themselves.
If they didn't care that's their ******* problem and they get to suffer the consequences.
That's just the way it is. If you think there should be more education about the CSM then maybe YOU should take charge.

So you believe that only people who have the time to check the forums and read the wiki and read the news sites and log into SiSi should have a say in what is going on?

Some people have real lives and real live jobs, families and strangely play this game as a game. They should have the right to have there say and be educated at the right time about what they should be voting about.

After that if they choose not to Vote after they know what they are deciding not to participate in fair enough.

It should not be the right any group in this game to say that because players choose not to take part in things, external to the game it's self, that they should not have the right to participate or be educated in to what the function of the CSM is.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Cutter Isaacson
DEDSEC SAN FRANCISCO
#238 - 2012-09-02 04:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cutter Isaacson
Frying Doom wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

This game isn't for people who can't be bothered to learn anything themselves.
If they didn't care that's their ******* problem and they get to suffer the consequences.
That's just the way it is. If you think there should be more education about the CSM then maybe YOU should take charge.

So you believe that only people who have the time to check the forums and read the wiki and read the news sites and log into SiSi should have a say in what is going on?

Some people have real lives and real live jobs, families and strangely play this game as a game. They should have the right to have there say and be educated at the right time about what they should be voting about.

After that if they choose not to Vote after they know what they are deciding not to participate in fair enough.

It should not be the right any group in this game to say that because players choose not to take part in things, external to the game it's self, that they should not have the right to participate or be educated in to what the function of the CSM is.



The CSM has been around for 6 years now; that is over half the life of the game. It is advertised and talked about in so many different places, at so many different levels and by such a plethora of people, that ignorance of its existence is almost unfathomable.

The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play.

EVE is and should always remain a game that requires a certain level of dedication and interaction on the part of its players, or it risks becoming an "almost ran" in the gaming industry. I cannot imagine a worse fate for such a fine product.

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#239 - 2012-09-02 04:58:09 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play.

No, they always support the claim of whoever is posting at the time.

ie: They want more nerfs to ganking, I guess?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frying Doom
#240 - 2012-09-02 05:01:09 UTC
Cutter Isaacson wrote:

The CSM has been around for 6 years now; that is over half the life of the game. It is advertised and talked about in so many different places, at so many different levels and by such a plethora of people, that ignorance of its existence is almost unfathomable.

Given that the majority of this game do not use the forums, let alone all the sites the CSM is mentioned on their ability to perceive the existence of the CSM is only in-game. Inside the game there are no references made to the CSM other than those few banners on the log in page that in no way shape or form actually state what the CSM is. Peoples inabilty to have the time or feel the need to check multiple sites should in no way shape or form lessen their right to vote or be informed about the CSM

Cutter Isaacson wrote:
The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play.

On this I completely disagree, from your argument I could use the case that you don't seem to have posted in the Test Server Feedback threads and so you should there for not be eligible to vote. You seem to have segregated your self from part of the EvE community by not posting there, why should you be allowed to vote if others who don't read things external to the game should not be educated?

Cutter Isaacson wrote:
EVE is and should always remain a game that requires a certain level of dedication and interaction on the part of its players, or it risks becoming an "almost ran" in the gaming industry. I cannot imagine a worse fate for such a fine product.

Oh nice scare tactics, you might have tried "People who do not Vote for the CSM are causing Global warming"
More shock but about the same amount of truth.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!