These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

NULL whiners mantra is getting tedious... and CSM lacks HI SEC representation

First post First post
Author
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2012-09-01 19:36:20 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Garreth Vlox wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
The meme that CCP has a perennial “drive people out of high-sec” dilema is just a pile of bull *****. Come on that is a myth thats repeated over & over again by NULL trolls in hopes CCP starts believeing in it.

The only more moronic/tedious myth is James 315's UNABOMBEReske manifestos on how mining is the scurge of all Eve.


Also it appears from the way this thread is moving the general lack of CSM represtation of pilots in HI SEC is lacking



You do realize that the people on the CSM are VOTED in right?

If you want a rep get off your asses and vote. You have no reason to be crying about not having a rep if that many of you live in high sec you should no problem what so ever voting in whoever you want.


Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve

Of course they're representative. They're representative of the players who cared to vote.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#182 - 2012-09-01 19:39:35 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
The meme that CCP has a perennial “drive people out of high-sec” dilema is just a pile of bull *****. Come on that is a myth thats repeated over & over again by NULL trolls in hopes CCP starts believeing in it.

The only more moronic/tedious myth is James 315's UNABOMBEReske manifestos on how mining is the scurge of all Eve.


Also it appears from the way this thread is moving the general lack of CSM represtation of pilots in HI SEC is lacking



How cute it thinks its people.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#183 - 2012-09-01 19:43:42 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve

Electoral systems IRL are meant to bring balance to elections in which areas with too low population do not have enough say in things because they are so few. As you state in your signature, hisec residents are in the majority. So... you're suggesting an electoral system in the favor of the majority?

That's ridiculous. They're not represented not because of underpopulation, but because of apathy. "I don't care enough to click on the big 'vote on someone who will promote your wishes on how Eve changes' banner, but I still expect Eve to change how I want it to" is not how representative government works. It's how lazy entitlement works.

Of course, most people IRL are no better informed or any less apathetic, but the presence of political parties makes it easy for them to brainlessly vote for something. For the CSM elections in Eve, it actually requires reading a short blurb about each candidate (at the least). Since it appears most hisec people can't be assed to do that and effectively say what they want, I don't see why their lazily unspoken opinions need to be on anyone's mind.

Silence is actually communication, and in this case it means "we don't care about the CSM, and don't care about how Eve evolves". The only way to fix the situation is to get the average hisec player involved and caring about these things, plus willing to vote. Once that happens, hisec will be properly represented. Until then, the people who actually care and get off their arses and show it will be in control of the CSM.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#184 - 2012-09-01 21:46:54 UTC
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...

75% of the hisec characters are nullsec alts, though.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#185 - 2012-09-01 22:05:59 UTC
Andski wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
-Right CCP has to be the advocate for HI SEC because they have 0 CSM representation to do anything else is to start losing subs.



Two Step, Trebor, Kelduum, Hans, Issler and Alek are all members of well-known nullsec alliances, right?


I will just quote this again. Issler and Kelduum are both high sec representatives. If you are not happy with what they are doing it's pretty much your fault for either not talking to them or not voting for someone else, but claiming that there is no high sec member on the csm is stupid.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#186 - 2012-09-01 22:08:00 UTC
Quote:

That's ridiculous. They're not represented not because of underpopulation, but because of apathy. "I don't care enough to click on the big 'vote on someone who will promote your wishes on how Eve changes' banner, but I still expect Eve to change how I want it to" is not how representative government works. It's how lazy entitlement works.


I believe most people in hisec are simply casual players, who do not feel like investing energy into null/lowsec drama or following orders from some corp bureaucracy, but simply want to shoot some internet spaceships for a few hours a week.

These casual players don't feel like wasting their time on internet game forums, usually the dens of trolls and assorted mouthbreathers, and simply don't know what is going on in the greater universe (witness the amount of people who were obliviously hauling stuff during burn Jita). People who play for 5-8 hours a week, and they make up a substantial percentage of the player base, are not going to spend an extra 2-4 hours a week keeping themselves updated through forums and blogs. They will be playing other games or doing IRL stuff.

I would be surprised if these people even know there is a CSM, much more if they had the time to form enough opinions to choose political platforms. People with that much time and interest in the game will naturally move on to low and null.

Thus the question how we give the interests of casual players a fair representation. Because we can't simply say screw them because they don't vote for a organisation they are only dimly aware of, because if the game is not enjoyable to them they will unsub. And less subs means less cash for ccp means less internet spaceships for everybody. The political system must carter to the interests and needs of small children and senile old people despite these people not voting or even fully understanding the world around them.

Affirmative action for hisec! Somebody think of the childrens!
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2012-09-01 22:09:59 UTC
It's almost like the login pages haven't said, in large fonts, "CSM VOTING IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#188 - 2012-09-01 22:24:18 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Jaques Cousteau Gemulus wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Anslo wrote:
I do agree with his signature though...

EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about...


Why would we value peoples opinions on EVE if they don't care enough to vote?



Since votes get flushed through the toilet by those same null-sec bears


Wait a minute, so it's some how some grand conspiracy by "null sec" (20% of the characters in EVE) against high sec that makes the csm null sec heavy?

It' couldn't possibly be that high sec residents (real ones, not the null sec alts lol) just don't give much of a damn or play enough to care in the 1st place. No, it must be null sec.


Maybe it's because even the Highsec bears wouldn't vote for the people that choose to attempt to be that representation.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#189 - 2012-09-01 23:50:43 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


Sometimes to keep a gameplay style viable, balanced and fun, you have to nerf its profitability.


lol then why is TECHnetium been such a profitable unnerfed bottle neck ever since I startedplaying the game years ago?
I'll answer it for you: because the head of the CSM was the owner of nearly all the TECH MOONsNow that he is not theTECH nerfs ( ie alchemy & pushing of ring mining ) has begun!


Dear dumbass, the head of the CSM wanted tech to get nerfed.
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
#190 - 2012-09-01 23:55:57 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


Sometimes to keep a gameplay style viable, balanced and fun, you have to nerf its profitability.


lol then why is TECHnetium been such a profitable unnerfed bottle neck ever since I startedplaying the game years ago?
I'll answer it for you: because the head of the CSM was the owner of nearly all the TECH MOONsNow that he is not theTECH nerfs ( ie alchemy & pushing of ring mining ) has begun!


Dear dumbass, the head of the CSM wanted tech to get nerfed.


Hey dumbass Mittani was playing you as a fool. Thats what you get for believeing a Goon
An' then Chicken@little.com, he come scramblin outta the    Terminal room screaming "The system's crashing! The system's    crashing!" -Uncle RAMus, 'Tales for Cyberpsychotic Children'
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-09-02 00:01:31 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:


Sometimes to keep a gameplay style viable, balanced and fun, you have to nerf its profitability.


lol then why is TECHnetium been such a profitable unnerfed bottle neck ever since I startedplaying the game years ago?
I'll answer it for you: because the head of the CSM was the owner of nearly all the TECH MOONsNow that he is not theTECH nerfs ( ie alchemy & pushing of ring mining ) has begun!


Dear dumbass, the head of the CSM wanted tech to get nerfed.


Hey dumbass Mittani was playing you as a fool. Thats what you get for believeing a Goon

So he's been on record in literally every media which covers EVE, saying tech should be nerfed, including the CSM meetings ... but secretly he's been making sure devswarm federation gets all the isk? Is that what you're trying to say?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#192 - 2012-09-02 00:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
DarthNefarius wrote:
lol then why is TECHnetium been such a profitable unnerfed bottle neck ever since I startedplaying the game years ago?
Because something always is and because CCP — surprise! — didn't listen to the players who spotted this before the change even went live.

Quote:
I'll answer it for you: because the head of the CSM was the owner of nearly all the TECH MOONs
…except that he was vocal about it requiring a change before they even invaded that part of space; was vocal about it requiring a change while they lived there; and was rather happy when a change was announced. The simple fact of the matter is that everyone in the CSM has been asking for a change pretty much since before you got here (including the previous owners of the space).

Your ignorance and paranoia does not change this fact.

If you want to disprove this fact you need to cough up some pretty spectacular proof in very short order.
Wilhelm Riley
Doomheim
#193 - 2012-09-02 00:04:15 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:


Also it appears from the way this thread is moving the general lack of CSM represtation of pilots in HI SnEC is lackig


Did you just use a double negative? Or something like it, at least. That sentence makes it seem like there ISN'T a lack of highsec representation.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2012-09-02 00:08:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Your ignorance and paranoia does not change this fact.

I think his :tinfoil: hat wasn't made from OTEC-brand technetium, but rather the lower-quality, faked reacted technetium. Surprisingly, that serves to make the government mind reading/controlling rays more effective, rather than less.

It's a funny coincidence. vOv

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Frying Doom
#195 - 2012-09-02 00:19:14 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
It's almost like the login pages haven't said, in large fonts, "CSM VOTING IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW".

And for people who don't know what the CSM is what would that mean to them.

You would probably get a better response ATM if you said "O-TEC VOTING IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW".

The players of this game need education, just like the players of Goonswarm were given on the CSM. Just because they chose not to be in a large alliance does not mean they don't need to be educated on what those 3 letters mean.

Must admit you guys do make some nice posters.Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#196 - 2012-09-02 00:22:25 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
It's almost like the login pages haven't said, in large fonts, "CSM VOTING IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW".

And for people who don't know what the CSM is what would that mean to them.

What it would mean to people who don't know what the CSM is?

It would mean "Hm. I don't know what that is, maybe I should read up on it and see if it's something I need concern myself about.", which should lead to "Whoa, maybe I should go vote, or I might end up being unable to ***** and moan about these CSM fellas not doing a good enough job because I couldn't be arsed to educate myself and do my part.".

Wait, no, that'd be silly.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Garreth Vlox
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2012-09-02 00:22:58 UTC
DarthNefarius wrote:
Garreth Vlox wrote:
DarthNefarius wrote:
The meme that CCP has a perennial “drive people out of high-sec” dilema is just a pile of bull *****. Come on that is a myth thats repeated over & over again by NULL trolls in hopes CCP starts believeing in it.

The only more moronic/tedious myth is James 315's UNABOMBEReske manifestos on how mining is the scurge of all Eve.


Also it appears from the way this thread is moving the general lack of CSM represtation of pilots in HI SEC is lacking



You do realize that the people on the CSM are VOTED in right?

If you want a rep get off your asses and vote. You have no reason to be crying about not having a rep if that many of you live in high sec you should no problem what so ever voting in whoever you want.


Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve


So basically you can't get enough people in empire to give a **** so they don't elect anyone. So we need to move to an electoral system so you can win at least some votes and get someone elected. Yeah that sounds like a plan.

The LULZ Boat.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#198 - 2012-09-02 00:25:44 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
It's a funny coincidence. vOv
Nah. The funny coincidence is that the tech bottleneck went live at the end of 2009. In 2010, the CSM chairman was from Veto, which as we all know were heavily into owning all the tech moo… wait what?!

There seems to be something wrong with the proposed causality chain. Odd.
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#199 - 2012-09-02 00:43:03 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

I'd consider that the exception to the rule.


I'd consider it being the figurehead to a bloc that represents a large chunk of money to CCP.

Now, ignoring all the mouth-breathing, windowlicking Obama Romneys who love to parrot things like "Hiseccers don't matter", and "Obviously, you didn't vote because you play in hisec and thus you don't care", I still don't understand why each section of space does not get a mandatory 2 members of the CSM each. It's not a hard concept, and it remedies just this sort of rant in that it represents each section of space equally. Each one has a voice, and the constituents know conclusively who their rep is, instead of trying to vote for someone who may or may not have your section of space in mind.

John Hancock

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2012-09-02 00:47:24 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
James 315 wrote:
Bluestream3 wrote:
Who cares? The CSM is just ridiculous PR crap anyway. The only thing CCP has to do is have them believe they make a difference and everyone's happy. Kind of like this thing they call active parenting I suppose when I think about it.

Are you certain? I've heard the CSM can have influence, if they offer good ideas and present them in an intelligent way. The Mittani's CSM Chairmanship was generally considered to be a success, for example.

I'd consider that the exception to the rule.


I'd consider it being the figurehead to a bloc that represents a large chunk of money to CCP.

Now, ignoring all the mouth-breathing, windowlicking Obama Romneys who love to parrot things like "Hiseccers don't matter", and "Obviously, you didn't vote because you play in hisec and thus you don't care", I still don't understand why each section of space does not get a mandatory 2 members of the CSM each. It's not a hard concept, and it remedies just this sort of rant in that it represents each section of space equally. Each one has a voice, and the constituents know conclusively who their rep is, instead of trying to vote for someone who may or may not have your section of space in mind.

And when they get "2 members of the CSM each", and they get just the same outcome as today, they'll continue harping on with the fallacious statistics of "well 75% of the eve universe is in hisec, so we should get 75% of the CSM".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat