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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

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Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#61 - 2012-08-03 20:04:43 UTC
Sho Menao wrote:
Am I the only one noticing a 15% reduction in max ore and merc mining and a 20% reduction in max ice mining from current absolute maximums. Mining buff is actually a stealth nerf. \o/


did you include the mining rigs for mercoxit and ice?
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#62 - 2012-08-03 20:05:43 UTC
Tantabobo wrote:
I will agree that the change to how many crystals you can hold is a tad annoying (especially for the largely solo jetcan miner) but it is merely an annoyance not something that will greatly impact your normal mining routine.

This is the only gripe I have about the entire thing. Folks won't want to deposit their crystals in the fleet support ship without some mechanism for telling who owns which crystal (assuming they even trust their corpmates, which isn't always the case). It's also a huge kick in the nuts to jetcan miners in deep 0.0 who live in neglected areas and are able to go an entire day without seeing anybody else, or have an intelligence network able to let them set up shop with a full set of everything, and just spend the whole day blasting rocks (like I did in J-OK0C a couple years ago).
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-08-03 20:07:04 UTC
Jake Rivers wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Happy Mining Day :3

We alleviated this slightly by cutting the volume of mining crystals in half, but it is now something that miners have to plan for before they go mining.


Plan to redock numerous times over a mining session.

Not exactly happy mining.

How often do you change crystals?
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#64 - 2012-08-03 20:08:41 UTC
Jack bubu wrote:
Tantabobo wrote:
Matthew Toomb wrote:
Can you guys please think this through just a little bit before you finalize? Those of us noobie idiots who've spent months training for Hulks only to have them downgraded to a piddly craptastic support miner- I assume we'll be ISKompensated for the hundreds of millions of $$ we've spent on our soon to be useless ships correct?

Oh, and will this "uber" retriever at least get a third strip slot? Or just a bloated cargobay?

Glad I manufacture retrievers with an original BPO though, the price is about to go WAY up.


Please explain how the Hulk is now craptastic? It is the best mining barge (in terms of yield/hr) it just now requires jetcan mining or support. (Both of which were used anyway if you cared about yield/hr). So what exactly changed that is making you so unhappy?

I will agree that the change to how many crystals you can hold is a tad annoying (especially for the largely solo jetcan miner) but it is merely an annoyance not something that will greatly impact your normal mining routine.

--Tanta

he cant go afk in it anymore ofcourse


How the hell does one go afk while mining with a 104second cycle timer on the mining lasers?

Senex Legio
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#65 - 2012-08-03 20:09:08 UTC
Atum wrote:
Tantabobo wrote:
I will agree that the change to how many crystals you can hold is a tad annoying (especially for the largely solo jetcan miner) but it is merely an annoyance not something that will greatly impact your normal mining routine.

This is the only gripe I have about the entire thing. Folks won't want to deposit their crystals in the fleet support ship without some mechanism for telling who owns which crystal (assuming they even trust their corpmates, which isn't always the case). It's also a huge kick in the nuts to jetcan miners in deep 0.0 who live in neglected areas and are able to go an entire day without seeing anybody else, or have an intelligence network able to let them set up shop with a full set of everything, and just spend the whole day blasting rocks (like I did in J-OK0C a couple years ago).


Set up a few GSC for crystal storage?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#66 - 2012-08-03 20:09:31 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Happy Mining Day :3

We alleviated this slightly by cutting the volume of mining crystals in half, but it is now something that miners have to plan for before they go mining.


Plan to redock numerous times over a mining session.

Not exactly happy mining.

How often do you change crystals?


Often enough.

Senex Legio
Vanessa Vansen
Vandeo
#67 - 2012-08-03 20:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vanessa Vansen
Medium Ice Havester Accelerator I and Medium Mercoxit Mining Crystal Optimization I currently have 250 calibration cost.

So, on one hand CCP is making the hulk the ultimate mining vessel in terms of yield.
On the other hand they restrict it to ore and either ice or mercoxit!

That is not nice!

Already the implant slots for the mining crystals stop you from becoming both a perfect ice and perfect ore miner.
So, please give us the opportunity to fit one of each rigs ... with the side effect that two of the same kind won't work at all.
Etharion Calthon
Perkone
Caldari State
#68 - 2012-08-03 20:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Etharion Calthon
Ya know, I'm rather tired about all this crystal blather. If its such a big deal, why not put a medium standard container
in your hold? This takes 325m3, still allows a 25m3 switch out space....and you can carry 2 additional crystals in the
can with a bit of room left over to stash a couple pieces of lewt from that faction rat drop.

You might even have to occasionally put a crystal in a jetcan while you get everything organized....God forbid. But
at least its a solution.
Carola Kessler
Lost Sisters Of New Eden
#69 - 2012-08-03 20:12:13 UTC
Sho Menao wrote:
Am I the only one noticing a 15% reduction in max ore and merc mining and a 20% reduction in max ice mining from current absolute maximums. Mining buff is actually a stealth nerf. \o/



IT is a nerf....and still someone will still say its a buff....also the decreasing from the Ressist bonus for the Exhumers or removal IS a nerf.

So...Conclusion...Hulk will get less used in hisec and the Mackinaw and Skiff will get seen more often after the patch.

Technically, the whole rebalancing from the Mining barges and Exhumers is morely a nerf then a buff or a adjustement to the current state of affairs meaning the still growing tendency to Gank Exhumers and Mining barges. Only Exception are the Procurer and Skiff which are a joke in its selfs, beeing the smallest Mining barges / Exhumers now beeing those with the biggest EHP buff and stuff, is just ridicoulous and totally out of sense.

Whudevah...as stated above, Hulk will be seen less often in hisec getting used for Mining, Mack got the new Crown handed beeing the best Mining Ship solution...so i'm going to lean back and watching what will hapens after 8th of August and listening to the upcoming whine threads from all sides, Miners, Gankers and also Industrials ( Producers ) for the next weeks / months after Patch takes effect.

Sincerly

Carola Kessler Evil
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#70 - 2012-08-03 20:12:29 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jake Rivers wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:
Happy Mining Day :3

We alleviated this slightly by cutting the volume of mining crystals in half, but it is now something that miners have to plan for before they go mining.


Plan to redock numerous times over a mining session.

Not exactly happy mining.

How often do you change crystals?

Depends on the belt and what you're mining, but it can be fairly often. Veld and scord both melt rather quickly (just not as quickly as highsec), while the ABC's (and that damned plagio) can last a good while. When you know what you're after (say, Mercox only, or the massive spod in a grav site) it's not an issue, but if you're belting to get the industry level up, you pretty much need to bring some of everything, and that's where the problem lies.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#71 - 2012-08-03 20:13:34 UTC
The rest of the changes do rule though, don't get me wrong. I have always hated having the crystals mixed in with the ore.

But 2 spares for 4 sets of crystals is not enough spares, when you want to use up the used crystals.

Senex Legio
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#72 - 2012-08-03 20:13:36 UTC
Sho Menao wrote:
Am I the only one noticing a 15% reduction in max ore and merc mining and a 20% reduction in max ice mining from current absolute maximums. Mining buff is actually a stealth nerf. \o/


Ore yield is unchanged, you're smoking something nasty. Likewise, ice yield (assuming orca bonuses because who the heck mines ice in nullsec) seems to be unchanged as well.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#73 - 2012-08-03 20:16:20 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Set up a few GSC for crystal storage?

In static belts, this is a viable option. For grav sites, though, it's additional pain for questionable gain (Case 1: You anchor the can, but barges are so slow that by the time you shuttle back and forth, you could have just gone back to base. Case 2: The belt has despawned, and now you have to fetch your probing ship, find the new site. Switch to your hauler to go to the old site, unanchor, reanchor. Switch to your barge. And now you're back to Case 1.)
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#74 - 2012-08-03 20:16:28 UTC
wow a new mining frigate, this sh!t is real Bear

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#75 - 2012-08-03 20:17:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
How did you calculate ice yields, because as far as I can tell, your numbers are very off

Based on the stats posted in the patch notes (which coincide for the current numbers on the test server for yields). I show this:

Hulk - 120.07 sec cycle time, 89.95 ice/hr,
Mackinaw - 86.50 sec cycle time, 83.24 ice/hr
Skiff - 47.52 sec cycle time, 75.76 ice/hr

Which is massively higher than yours (found here)

Hulk - 73 ice/hr,
Mackinaw - 68 ice/hr
Skiff - 61 ice/hr

I'm inclined to agree with my numbers more than those in the dev blog, because the new hulk is supposed to equal the old mackinaw in terms of yield. And the old mackinaw pulled in 90.06 ice/hr, and my new calculations show 89.95. Yours show 73. You must not be actually calculating with max skills, max implants, max boosts
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#76 - 2012-08-03 20:18:02 UTC
Atum wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Set up a few GSC for crystal storage?

In static belts, this is a viable option. For grav sites, though, it's additional pain for questionable gain (Case 1: You anchor the can, but barges are so slow that by the time you shuttle back and forth, you could have just gone back to base. Case 2: The belt has despawned, and now you have to fetch your probing ship, find the new site. Switch to your hauler to go to the old site, unanchor, reanchor. Switch to your barge. And now you're back to Case 1.)


Good Point. Hadn't really thought about grav sites.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#77 - 2012-08-03 20:22:36 UTC
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
How did you calculate ice yields, because as far as I can tell, your numbers are very off


Unless I did my math wrong 73 blocks/hr (on the hulk) is in line with what a perfect mackinaw with a perfect orca booster will get right now.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#78 - 2012-08-03 20:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jita Bloodtear
corestwo wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
How did you calculate ice yields, because as far as I can tell, your numbers are very off


Unless I did my math wrong 73 blocks/hr (on the hulk) is in line with what a perfect mackinaw with a perfect orca booster will get right now.

See above real fast, I just wrote a post real fast to get a place holder, then edited it in with more detailed information. My information is pulled from direct dealings off the test server, using rorqual boosts with mindlink, perfect miners, max yield fit, perfect implants. Orca boosts != max boosts. But that might help to explain things.
MezriDax
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Memento Moriendo
#79 - 2012-08-03 20:27:50 UTC
Glad I got rid of my Mackinaws last week :) I should have offloaded the Skiff as well *sigh* btw, great job screwing over miners.... again.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#80 - 2012-08-03 20:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
How did you calculate ice yields, because as far as I can tell, your numbers are very off


Unless I did my math wrong 73 blocks/hr (on the hulk) is in line with what a perfect mackinaw with a perfect orca booster will get right now.

See above real fast, I just wrote a post real fast to get a place holder, then edited it in with more detailed information. My information is pulled from direct dealings off the test server, using rorqual boosts with mindlink, perfect miners, max yield fit, perfect implants. Orca boosts != max boosts. But that might help to explain things.

Orca boosts don't equal max boosts yes, but the ore yield does line up assuming rorqual boosts, and orca boost are a reasonable assumption for ice considering that the overwhelming majority of ice mining occurs in highsec.

If you want to feel superior because you caught ccp out on a little mistake, be my guest, but their numbers are accurate for a reasonable set of assumptions.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo