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New dev blog: Ship Balancing: Mining Barges

First post
Author
Dave stark
#81 - 2012-08-03 20:29:37 UTC
corestwo wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
How did you calculate ice yields, because as far as I can tell, your numbers are very off


Unless I did my math wrong 73 blocks/hr (on the hulk) is in line with what a perfect mackinaw with a perfect orca booster will get right now.


could you please post your maths? i'm pretty much getting the same ore yields (i think the difference is that i'm not truncating values)

however the ore yields ccp posted are way different to those on sisi.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#82 - 2012-08-03 20:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
My "math" is looking at a maxed out rorqual boosted Hulk in EFT and seeing that it gets 2857m3/minute in yield. 2857m3 x 60 minutes is 171,420m3 per hour, which means 1,171,420 units of veld per hour, which is in line with what the blog says after accounting for the fact that I didn't bother to plug implants into the miner profile in EFT.

So, assuming the information posted in the blog here is accurate, things don't change. If sisi has different information, then perhaps its running a slightly older version than what is going to push to live or something.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo

Jaques D'Builder
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-08-03 20:34:30 UTC
corestwo wrote:
My "math" is looking at a maxed out rorqual boosted Hulk in EFT and seeing that it gets 2857m3/minute in yield. 2857m3 x 60 minutes is 171,420m3 per hour, which means 1,171,420 units of veld per hour, which is in line with what the blog says after accounting for the fact that I didn't bother to plug implants into the miner profile in EFT.

So, assuming the information posted in the blog here is accurate, things don't change. If sisi has different information, then perhaps its running a slightly older version than what is going to push to live or something.


Seems reasonable to me vOv
Daenika
Chambers of Shaolin
#84 - 2012-08-03 20:38:23 UTC
Wait, so with the conversion to an Ore hold, do cargo expanders still work? Or will those just apply to the base cargohold?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#85 - 2012-08-03 20:39:45 UTC
Daenika wrote:
Wait, so with the conversion to an Ore hold, do cargo expanders still work? Or will those just apply to the base cargohold?


Just the base cargo hold

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#86 - 2012-08-03 20:39:54 UTC
Daenika wrote:
Wait, so with the conversion to an Ore hold, do cargo expanders still work? Or will those just apply to the base cargohold?

Cargo expanders have only ever applied to the base cargo, not specialized (ore/fuel/corporate/etc) holds.
Dave stark
#87 - 2012-08-03 20:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
corestwo wrote:
My "math" is looking at a maxed out rorqual boosted Hulk in EFT and seeing that it gets 2857m3/minute in yield. 2857m3 x 60 minutes is 171,420m3 per hour, which means 1,171,420 units of veld per hour, which is in line with what the blog says after accounting for the fact that I didn't bother to plug implants into the miner profile in EFT.

So, assuming the information posted in the blog here is accurate, things don't change. If sisi has different information, then perhaps its running a slightly older version than what is going to push to live or something.


my maths has gone wrong somewhere, i've got 104.0625 second cycles with rorq bonuses, somehow i'm just getting more yield.

a hulk with...
t2 strips + t2 crystals, astrogeology, mining, mining barges, exhumers all at V, then 2x mlus and both the 5% highwall and the michi implant i'm getting 1961.03...m3 per cycle per strip, giving me 3392m3 per min.

**** knows, it's too late at night for me to be messing with this crap.

with orca bonuses it's 2898.5.. m3/cycle, giving 173,911m3 which is closer to dev blog numbers.
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#88 - 2012-08-03 20:47:29 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
my maths has gone wrong somewhere, i've got 104.0625 second cycles with rorq bonuses, somehow i'm just getting more yield.

a hulk with...
t2 strips + t2 crystals, astrogeology, mining, mining barges, exhumers all at V, then 2x mlus and both the 5% highwall and the michi implant i'm getting 1961.03...m3 per cycle per strip, giving me 3392m3 per min.

**** knows, it's too late at night for me to be messing with this crap.

with orca bonuses it's 2898.5.. m3/cycle, giving 173,911m3 which is closer to dev blog numbers.

What happens if you take out the Michi? I doubt many people even bother acknowledging its existence given the 1b price tag.
Dave stark
#89 - 2012-08-03 20:49:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Atum wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
my maths has gone wrong somewhere, i've got 104.0625 second cycles with rorq bonuses, somehow i'm just getting more yield.

a hulk with...
t2 strips + t2 crystals, astrogeology, mining, mining barges, exhumers all at V, then 2x mlus and both the 5% highwall and the michi implant i'm getting 1961.03...m3 per cycle per strip, giving me 3392m3 per min.

**** knows, it's too late at night for me to be messing with this crap.

with orca bonuses it's 2898.5.. m3/cycle, giving 173,911m3 which is closer to dev blog numbers.

What happens if you take out the Michi? I doubt many people even bother acknowledging its existence given the 1b price tag.


with orca bonuses 165,630m3/hour
with rorq bonuses 193,832

orca bonuses with michi is closer than those two options it seems.


pyfa is giving me the same numbers, so ccp are missing some thing or something is getting a heavy nerf between now and release.
Jake Rivers
New Planetary Order
#90 - 2012-08-03 20:59:34 UTC
Dave stark wrote:
corestwo wrote:
My "math" is looking at a maxed out rorqual boosted Hulk in EFT and seeing that it gets 2857m3/minute in yield. 2857m3 x 60 minutes is 171,420m3 per hour, which means 1,171,420 units of veld per hour, which is in line with what the blog says after accounting for the fact that I didn't bother to plug implants into the miner profile in EFT.

So, assuming the information posted in the blog here is accurate, things don't change. If sisi has different information, then perhaps its running a slightly older version than what is going to push to live or something.


my maths has gone wrong somewhere, i've got 104.0625 second cycles with rorq bonuses, somehow i'm just getting more yield.

a hulk with...
t2 strips + t2 crystals, astrogeology, mining, mining barges, exhumers all at V, then 2x mlus and both the 5% highwall and the michi implant i'm getting 1961.03...m3 per cycle per strip, giving me 3392m3 per min.

**** knows, it's too late at night for me to be messing with this crap.

with orca bonuses it's 2898.5.. m3/cycle, giving 173,911m3 which is closer to dev blog numbers.


Last few days on sisi the hulk had the same as on tq, 1832m3/cycle with max rorq boost and just the 3% mining implant.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2012-08-03 21:02:35 UTC
CCP

And how about the material cost to build the minning barges, any change!?!??!?

THey should cost almost the same to build!!!
Dave stark
#92 - 2012-08-03 21:04:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Jake Rivers wrote:
Dave stark wrote:
corestwo wrote:
My "math" is looking at a maxed out rorqual boosted Hulk in EFT and seeing that it gets 2857m3/minute in yield. 2857m3 x 60 minutes is 171,420m3 per hour, which means 1,171,420 units of veld per hour, which is in line with what the blog says after accounting for the fact that I didn't bother to plug implants into the miner profile in EFT.

So, assuming the information posted in the blog here is accurate, things don't change. If sisi has different information, then perhaps its running a slightly older version than what is going to push to live or something.


my maths has gone wrong somewhere, i've got 104.0625 second cycles with rorq bonuses, somehow i'm just getting more yield.

a hulk with...
t2 strips + t2 crystals, astrogeology, mining, mining barges, exhumers all at V, then 2x mlus and both the 5% highwall and the michi implant i'm getting 1961.03...m3 per cycle per strip, giving me 3392m3 per min.

**** knows, it's too late at night for me to be messing with this crap.

with orca bonuses it's 2898.5.. m3/cycle, giving 173,911m3 which is closer to dev blog numbers.


Last few days on sisi the hulk had the same as on tq, 1832m3/cycle with max rorq boost and just the 3% mining implant.


confirming that is what i get without michi and 3% highwall instead of 5% highwall. also still puts it above dev blog numbers with rorq boosts, and below with orca boosts.

it's either really late and i'm overlooking some thing, or ccp are changing some thing between the current sisi build and release to get those numbers.
Dave stark
#93 - 2012-08-03 21:04:57 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
CCP

And how about the material cost to build the minning barges, any change!?!??!?

THey should cost almost the same to build!!!

they have changed, check out science and industry there's a thread there about it.
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#94 - 2012-08-03 21:05:36 UTC
I know not purely a barge related question but this from the dev blog:
Quote:
With the increase to shield hit points, the shield resistance bonus of Exhumers was making the gap between Mining Barges and Exhumers a bit too big, so we reduced the bonus from 7.5% per level to 5% per level.


Has me wondering as the ship re-blanching continues will the gap be closing between other T1 to T2 hulls?
Scott PiIgrim
Doomheim
#95 - 2012-08-03 21:07:08 UTC
Please make the cargohold 50 m3 bigger on all barges. We capsuleers do bring other stuff than just crystals you know :(
Jita Bloodtear
Bloodtear Labs
#96 - 2012-08-03 21:07:25 UTC
corestwo wrote:

If you want to feel superior because you caught ccp out on a little mistake, be my guest, but their numbers are accurate for a reasonable set of assumptions.

lol wow, why are you so bitter towards me? I don't think this is the first time you've insulted me. Reasonable set of assumptions are that max mining yield based on perfect conditions = max mining yield based on perfect conditions. I was attempting to clarify misinformation which would have a massive impact on nullsec ice miners.
Ramona Vermillion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#97 - 2012-08-03 21:08:18 UTC
Hey, I really like what you are doing here, but it seems kind of boring that ORE have a monopoly on mining; in terms of RP and in player choice it might be nice to give them some competition at some stage.
Rengerel en Distel
#98 - 2012-08-03 21:08:30 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
CCP

And how about the material cost to build the minning barges, any change!?!??!?

THey should cost almost the same to build!!!


build costs for procurer and retriever were increased a lot, the others i don't recall ... you can check on sisi though for exact numbers.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Dave stark
#99 - 2012-08-03 21:12:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
corestwo wrote:
Jita Bloodtear wrote:
How did you calculate ice yields, because as far as I can tell, your numbers are very off


Unless I did my math wrong 73 blocks/hr (on the hulk) is in line with what a perfect mackinaw with a perfect orca booster will get right now.

See above real fast, I just wrote a post real fast to get a place holder, then edited it in with more detailed information. My information is pulled from direct dealings off the test server, using rorqual boosts with mindlink, perfect miners, max yield fit, perfect implants. Orca boosts != max boosts. But that might help to explain things.


perfect fit hulk, orca bonuses, no implant. 73 blocks an hour.

and i'm 22 units of veld/hour behind what ccp get by using a perfect hulk, both 5% implants, and orca bonuses. [but i'm not truncating as would happen on tq]

that's as close as i can get to their maths.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#100 - 2012-08-03 21:13:14 UTC
Matthew Toomb wrote:
Can you guys please think this through just a little bit before you finalize? Those of us noobie idiots who've spent months training for Hulks only to have them downgraded to a piddly craptastic support miner- I assume we'll be ISKompensated for the hundreds of millions of $$ we've spent on our soon to be useless ships correct?

Oh, and will this "uber" retriever at least get a third strip slot? Or just a bloated cargobay?

Glad I manufacture retrievers with an original BPO though, the price is about to go WAY up.


THE SKILLS FOR THE HULK ARE THE SAME SKILLS FOR THE OTHER EXHUMERS, AND ALL OF THEM GET BENEFIT F ROM HAVING HIGH EXHUMERS SKILL

*insults you for being a whiner*

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.