EVE General Discussion

Technically the serial keys ARE the software, it's just a new way of easy distribution.

Then should an account not technically be the software too? I mean you do need it to play. Just like you need the serial to use windows. Windows can run extremely limited after the activation timer runs out, just as you can run eve without getting to log in without the account

No, they are tokens to prove the ownership of the software licenses that are the subject of the ruling.

No. You need an account to alter stuff in CCP's databases. You don't need an account to download and run the software (which is what the — usually free — license covers).

Well, to start with, we seem to be forgetting that a large portion of the EU rulings are, to put it simply, ridiculous. The whole rights thing... non, only if something is hidden from you should you have the right to complain. Otherwise you should just be more careful with what you buy. Sometimes a little choice is a nice thing yno...

Before anyone goes "rargh Americans don't know what rights are", I'm not an American, I live, breath and work in the EU.

Now.

No, software keys etc are not licenses, they are representations of a license, like proof of ID. You can show your ID to a banker to prove that an account is yours. You can't show an ID to a shopkeeper to pay for something (ignoring recent developments in the whole oyster-card like payment systems). My point being, that you can use your ID as proof that you own the money (so the banker will give it to you) but you can't use it as money (I.E. being able to give some part of it to a shopkeeper for his wares).

With me so far?

Awesome.

Something which occurred to me whilst I was reading all the rage throughout, and all the well reasoned arguments, was that you could argue, theoretically, that your account/character is an in game personification of you. It is a virtual representation of your being, mind, soul, whatnot, and as such, I suspect that an accomplished lawyer (which I am most certainly not, although maybe Mittens could help...lol) will easily be able to argue that selling your character for real life money is tantamount to selling yourself, and lead from there to prostitution. I'm pretty sure the EU rulings don't make that legal...

Now of course, that does bring into view the issue of character trading for in game money, but again I'm sure a sharp mind could work around that.

Might I remind you that, in order to sell an account, you would have to give away your password to someone else, and THAT is not covered by the rulings, but most certainly IS covered by the EULA. So if the EU want to stop CCP stopping you giving your account to people for money, so be it, but they (CCP) CAN ban the account for you giving away the password. And, as seems appropriate given the level of dependency issues in this thread, the game is useless without the account, which in turn is useless without the password.

The password is not software and isn't a license, and so won't be covered by the rulings.
If the EU decides to make selling passwords and flaunting them around legal, then God help every one of us...

Yours.

TB

In fact, the only thing that is a bit unclear is how you get a software license for EVE, since you need one in order to open an account…

They do seem to say in the EULA that they basically grant you a license for reading the EULA and/or by downloading the client:

“9. LICENSE
A. Software License

Subject to the terms of the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to use the Software and its accompanying documentation solely in connection with accessing the System in order to play EVE using a single valid Account.”

What about apps from the apple store? Are those up for resale as well? Kind of surprised that has not been brought up.

The ruling allows you to resell software, if that software requires a password you set up, it is part of it. Your arguments against it make no sense.

If a EULA go against the laws of the state where the software is sold, the EULA is not worth the bits that are storing it. In fact, if parts of the EULA are contradictory to laws of the state, an argument could be made against other parts of the EULA.

An EULA is not a legally binding document, it strengthens a companies position in court, helps set precedent, and gives a company a measure of control over what a states law does not cover.

The ruling stated by op does not appear to cover a subscription model such as EVE online. If someone were to take it to court, as someone above suggested, it would most likely be expanded but to what affect one could not really predict now. The ruling would cover games such as Diablo 3, where there is a cd key that comes with the box, and is required to use the software.

Note, by state I mean government/nation/country, not the American version of state. Also, anything stated above does not apply to the USA, as their laws are... yeah.

What Kunming says is the most valid point of this whole debate as if you read the full ruling!

InfoCuria - Case-law of the Court of Justice: (Legal protection of computer programs – Marketing of used licences for computer programs downloaded from the internet – Directive 2009/24/EC – Articles 4(2) and 5(1) – Exhaustion of the distribution right – Concept of lawful acquirer)

Note due to length of URL 'Left Clicking' on the above 'Link' wont work? While 'Right Clicking' and selecting 'Open in New Tab' does work??? Weird Forum bug

Section 72 states

Quote: 'On the basis of all the foregoing, the answer to Question 2 is that Article 4(2) of Directive 2009/24 must be interpreted as meaning that the right of distribution of a copy of a computer program is exhausted if the copyright holder who has authorised, even free of charge, the downloading of that copy from the internet onto a data carrier has also conferred, in return for payment of a fee intended to enable him to obtain a remuneration corresponding to the economic value of the copy of the work of which he is the proprietor, a right to use that copy for an unlimited period.'

Translated to Plain English:

If there was no time limit placed on the sale at the point of sale it is yours. If you rent it you don't own it.

So in EVE's case!

You own the programme disc and the client software there upon!

But you don't own the account you set up to enable to use the content of that disc, as you pay a rental fee for that!

this is what i think too

On a purely theoretical note, how much real cash would someone pay for a 120m SP pvp allrounder character?