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Selling characters (account) for real money

Author
Othran
Route One
#41 - 2012-07-03 16:48:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Tippia wrote:
Othran wrote:
However Dust is a different matter as there is no recurring fee (there is a setup fee AIUI) and would be covered by the ruling. The account could be sold as the setup fee is for the software and account.
Nah, Dust will fall into the same pattern as EVE: yes, you need a license to run the software, but you won't be able to actually play without a (non-transferable) service contract.

Here, the ruling rather means that, should you be able to extract the software from your PS3's hard drive, you can give it to someone else and they're allowed to run it (although I imagine that Sony will be slightly upset if you do for various other reasons). But here, too, it will be largely pointless to do such a transfer since anyone is free to download and use the software anyway. The kind of transfers the ruling allows is immensely more work than just creating a license of your own.


Nope, not unless the setup fee disappears and CCP can't afford that. If the setup fee has any relationship with the account then the account becomes part of the software licence. No recurring fee = no service contract in this instance.

You can already resell console games with physical media, this just means the "setup fee" will have to disappear for Dust.

Edit - and Sony will have to make "extracting the software" possible.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-07-03 16:52:01 UTC
Othran wrote:
Nope, not unless the setup fee disappears and CCP can't afford that. If the setup fee has any relationship with the account then the account becomes part of the software licence.
Will there be a setup fee?
Will it be part of the license? What kind of relationship are envisioning?

Again, you're entirely free to download and run the software (and, with this ruling, resell those rights) — the service contract is a separate entity from the (re)sale of the (free) downloaded software.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-07-03 16:53:51 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Thorn Galen wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:

If you sign a paper that you agree to me killing you publicly, will my terms and agreements or the law of the country apply? (Hint: I think the law Shocked)


Laughable.

Now you're equating real-life death with an online escapism MMO ? Way to go Mr. Intellect.
My final post in this thread.
I refuse to enter intellectual combat against a mentally incapacitated opponent.


So this law is not in real life? Ok then. How am I equating anything? You say "You agreed to the EULA/TOS and thats it". Well, the law clearly overrules EULA/TOS, I just put it in a more serious setting. Why should the law > eula/tos matter in one situation and not another?

Personal shitflinging, nice. Best way to end a discussion professionally.


Hi.
Aweful spaceship pilot here.
I do not care much about syrian troops torturing kids or raping and killing their mothers. I do care about what the OP here is asking, because that somewhat affects my life.

So in short, space ship pixels are more important than life and death, and sometimes it is more impotant than wife and kids.


So... Can I buy an account due to this new law??
Cebraio
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2012-07-03 16:57:08 UTC
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:


Hi.
Aweful spaceship pilot here.
I do not care much about syrian troops torturing kids or raping and killing their mothers. I do care about what the OP here is asking, because that somewhat affects my life.

So in short, space ship pixels are more important than life and death, and sometimes it is more impotant than wife and kids.


So... Can I buy an account due to this new law??

No

You are also wrong on the other parts.
Othran
Route One
#45 - 2012-07-03 16:59:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Othran wrote:
Nope, not unless the setup fee disappears and CCP can't afford that. If the setup fee has any relationship with the account then the account becomes part of the software licence.
Will there be a setup fee?
Will it be part of the license? What kind of relationship are envisioning?

Again, you're entirely free to download and run the software (and, with this ruling, resell those rights) — the service contract is a separate entity from the (re)sale of the (free) downloaded software.


If the software requires online authentication to run or to access all features and that authentication does not have a recurring fee then its covered.

I suggest you look at what Oracle was appealing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2012-07-03 17:21:03 UTC
Othran wrote:
If the software requires online authentication to run or to access all features and that authentication does not have a recurring fee then its covered.
And again, afaik, it doesn't. I know they tanked about it, but I'm not sure that it's been decided.

It requires a (free) software download that you are now free to transfer, and it requires a (free) service contract that is most likely going to be non-transferable (well… outside of how transferable PSN accounts are — I'm not fully up to speed on Sony's contracts in that regard). Transferring the (free) license, while free, will be more trouble than just setting up a new license, since it's going to be… well… free.

The software license that's touched by the ruling rather seems to be the transaction between you and the PSN Store — you will now have the right to transfer that purchase to a different account, and while I'm sure this will create massive headaches for Sony, CCP's part should remain largely untouched.
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
#47 - 2012-07-03 17:22:59 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
So, as far as I can tell, CCP does not allow players to sell and share our accounts.

How does that go with the ruling that allow Europeans to legally sell any computer program to another person?

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

“an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale."


a gaming account is not a piece of software. CCP does allow you to create your own account and then buy a character on the character bazaar to transer to that account.. or transfer a character to that account from another of your own accounts. This should be enough to satisfy the needs most players.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]

MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
#48 - 2012-07-03 17:25:31 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
So, as far as I can tell, CCP does not allow players to sell and share our accounts.

How does that go with the ruling that allow Europeans to legally sell any computer program to another person?

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

“an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale."


There is 1 simple workaround for that court decision for U.S. companies: IP ban all Europe and stop selling boxed copies to them until they repeal that decision.
Orecia
THE S0S BRIGADE
#49 - 2012-07-04 12:48:18 UTC
MinefieldS wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
So, as far as I can tell, CCP does not allow players to sell and share our accounts.

How does that go with the ruling that allow Europeans to legally sell any computer program to another person?

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

“an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale."


There is 1 simple workaround for that court decision for U.S. companies: IP ban all Europe and stop selling boxed copies to them until they repeal that decision.


As if IP banning EU would stop me from playing.
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#50 - 2012-07-04 12:48:43 UTC
Mina Sebiestar wrote:
Not sure about stuff above but after few years of paying for this chars when im done with em this baby and other are going to e-bay.


not anymore ahahahahahaha

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration

TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#51 - 2012-07-04 13:05:47 UTC
Even though this ruling may not deal with this specific area, the ownership of "accounts" is a bit weird anyway when you think about it. You pay for the account, you are the "owner" of it... yet you are not allowed to sell or give it to someone else because the company says so (because they want that someone else to give THEM money not you)

doesnt feel right, does it
Anna Djan
Banana Corp
#52 - 2012-07-04 13:38:50 UTC
You can not sell what you don't own.

You own a license to access the game, but you do not own the character, the ISK or anything else inside that game.

The only time this would change is if ISK was transferable to RL cash (an no, PLEXs do not count).

OP, before posting outrageous posts, try and understand licensing laws first :P
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-07-04 14:26:02 UTC
What a stupid law to make. South Korea has the right idea though, 5 years jail for anyone caught botting or engaging in RMT.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mark Androcius
#54 - 2012-07-04 14:31:27 UTC
I can make this really simple, you have to compare it to a house.
European rules on buying and selling houses, states that you can only buy and then sell land/house every 5 years, without pating taxes ofter the profit.
If however, you buy and sell houses for a living, you have to pay taxes over the profit you make.

CCP CAN NOT make selling accounts and items legal, as it CAN NOT strictly follow how much you sell for real life cash, meaning either you or CCP, will get a nice huge tax bill, stating whatever amount of euro's, the european gevernment "guesses" you have made on selling stuff and accounts.


Yeah i know, i sayd the same thing in another post too, but i'm just trying to remove the stupidity in as many people as possible.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#55 - 2012-07-04 14:57:22 UTC
MinefieldS wrote:
Hannott Thanos wrote:
So, as far as I can tell, CCP does not allow players to sell and share our accounts.

How does that go with the ruling that allow Europeans to legally sell any computer program to another person?

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

“an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale."


There is 1 simple workaround for that court decision for U.S. companies: IP ban all Europe and stop selling boxed copies to them until they repeal that decision.


There is 1 simple workaround for that tactic by the EU: repeal all the copyrights held by those companies and download the software once.

Realistically though, let me tell you about a thing called "trade agreements" that make your proposed solution hilariously impractical. Oh and another thing called "competition".

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-07-04 15:12:31 UTC
Who cares if someone sells his account for real money?

Oh and in the EU we have something called consumer rights, I know that is a concept alien to most Americans.
Adolfus Shakor
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-07-04 15:53:09 UTC
dexington wrote:
You do not own your character, so you can not sell it.


You do not own your character, so you should not sell it.

Fixed it for you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2012-07-04 15:57:45 UTC
Adolfus Shakor wrote:
dexington wrote:
You do not own your character, so you can not sell it.
You do not own your character, so you should not sell it.

Fixed it for you.
Technically, you do not own your character, but you can still sell it in exchange for certain other things that you will not own either.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#59 - 2012-07-04 16:00:45 UTC
I'll just drop this reminder in here.

A bunch of mouth breathing nerds posting on an internet spaceship forum are not making the rules. Their opinions and 'well reasoned arguments' count for exactly nothing.

That's a job for real lawyers that CCP is paying specifically to deal with this stuff. They'll figure it out. It's business as usual for them.

While I find this mildly interesting, it is not something I will argue about since unlike all you armchair lawyers, I readily admit that corporate law is way outside my area of expertise.

Mr Epeen Cool
Gabriel Z
Krabulous
#60 - 2012-07-04 16:02:05 UTC
EVE software is free. Good luck reselling it.

Accounts are not software.

It seems fairly obvious that the core issue here is that software companies are no longer sending out games printed on media that can be taken to a used disk shop and sold. It's all digital. They thought they had at last solved the resale issue. If anyone was gonna play their game, now and forever, they were going to have a buy a new copy. This ruling changes that. It says you own the digital copy, even though there is no media to pick up and sell at the used disk store. This ruling actually bodes very ill for movie companies if the core issue is applied elsewhere.