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Selling characters (account) for real money
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Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#1 - 2012-07-03 13:30:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
So, as far as I can tell, CCP does not allow players to sell and share our accounts.

How does that go with the ruling that allow Europeans to legally sell any computer program to another person?

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

“an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale."

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
#2 - 2012-07-03 13:31:35 UTC
Your account isn't a software license.
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#3 - 2012-07-03 13:33:00 UTC
One has nothing to do with the other. Apples and Steaks.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Django Returns
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-07-03 13:33:51 UTC
Why isnt your account a software license?
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#5 - 2012-07-03 13:36:54 UTC
My account is as essential to the game as the game in itself. I would hazard a guess that you are not allowed to sell software that are not possible to use because it's not possible to be used without an account, and it's not possible to create said account.

Lets say Microsoft sold several million copies of Windows 8 and didn't provide serials. Serials are not part of the software, so would that be allowed? I think not

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#6 - 2012-07-03 13:37:54 UTC
BoBoZoBo wrote:
One has nothing to do with the other. Apples and Steaks.

I strongly disagree. Read my above post

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Sebiestor Tribe
#7 - 2012-07-03 13:44:03 UTC
End User License Agrement.

John Hancock
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#8 - 2012-07-03 13:46:03 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
End User License Agreement is overruled by the laws in the country you and the software developer is in.

FTFY

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-07-03 13:46:50 UTC
I think the eula says that your character and all items, etc belongs to CCP, and you are paying them money for access to the virtual items, or something along those lines.

You do not own your character, so you can not sell it.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Kyle Ward
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-07-03 13:48:00 UTC
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:
End User License Agrement.



I think I have a stack of those in my bathroom...

The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-07-03 13:49:21 UTC
You don't own your account, you're renting it. The software for EVE is free.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#12 - 2012-07-03 13:51:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum
You dont own the game when you purchase it... you purchase a license to play the game.

Same as renting a car.. You dont own the car you are paying for the privilage to drive it.

Usually licesnes are binded to an email address or whatever other method such as credit cards.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#13 - 2012-07-03 13:52:15 UTC
As was said above me, You dont own your account, CCP does.

So if you sell it for real life money you are effectivley Stealing, and Selling Stolen Goods.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Othran
Route One
#14 - 2012-07-03 13:57:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Your account isn't a software license.


It is actually in the context of the ruling.

The ruling is fairly clear and deals with software, not just games.

Oracle are the company who has been trying to block resale and from what I remember they tried to argue that "downloaded" software should have different resale rules to software installed from a physical medium (CD/DVD). The argument involved the use of an install mechanism which required an account with Oracle to download/install/activate the licenced software.

The court has disagreed with Oracle.

There are some salient points which most gamer sites will have missed - such as :

"Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy — tangible or intangible — and at the same time concludes, in return [for] payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy,"

As far as I'm aware CCP do not provide a licence agreement to use for an unlimited period. There is a recurring monthly fee. I suspect that means you can in fact sell an entire account but not a character from an account. This might in fact stop character transfers within the EU but allow account transfers.

Parasite (lawyer) heaven Roll
Nirnias Stirrum
UberWTFBBQ and Battle Technologies
#15 - 2012-07-03 14:06:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nirnias Stirrum
Othran wrote:
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Your account isn't a software license.


It is actually in the context of the ruling.

The ruling is fairly clear and deals with software, not just games.

Oracle are the company who has been trying to block resale and from what I remember they tried to argue that "downloaded" software should have different resale rules to software installed from a physical medium (CD/DVD). The argument involved the use of an install mechanism which required an account with Oracle to download/install/activate the licenced software.

The court has disagreed with Oracle.

There are some salient points which most gamer sites will have missed - such as :

"Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy — tangible or intangible — and at the same time concludes, in return [for] payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy,"

As far as I'm aware CCP do not provide a licence agreement to use for an unlimited period. There is a recurring monthly fee. I suspect that means you can in fact sell an entire account but not a character from an account. This might in fact stop character transfers within the EU but allow account transfers.

Parasite (lawyer) heaven Roll


And the owner of the license (i.e. CCP), reserve the right to revoke your license agreement for any reason, since thats what you agreed to when you pressed accept on the TOS and the EULA:

Such as say, selling your account for real money :P
Abel Merkabah
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-07-03 14:18:02 UTC
Othran wrote:
Patient 2428190 wrote:
Your account isn't a software license.


It is actually in the context of the ruling.

The ruling is fairly clear and deals with software, not just games.

Oracle are the company who has been trying to block resale and from what I remember they tried to argue that "downloaded" software should have different resale rules to software installed from a physical medium (CD/DVD). The argument involved the use of an install mechanism which required an account with Oracle to download/install/activate the licenced software.

The court has disagreed with Oracle.

There are some salient points which most gamer sites will have missed - such as :

"Where the copyright holder makes available to his customer a copy — tangible or intangible — and at the same time concludes, in return [for] payment of a fee, a licence agreement granting the customer the right to use that copy for an unlimited period, that rightholder sells the copy to the customer and thus exhausts his exclusive distribution right. Such a transaction involves a transfer of the right of ownership of the copy,"

As far as I'm aware CCP do not provide a licence agreement to use for an unlimited period. There is a recurring monthly fee. I suspect that means you can in fact sell an entire account but not a character from an account. This might in fact stop character transfers within the EU but allow account transfers.

Parasite (lawyer) heaven Roll


We don't purchase unlimited liscences from what I understand.

James315 for CSM 8!
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#17 - 2012-07-03 14:19:39 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
So, as far as I can tell, CCP does not allow players to sell and share our accounts.

How does that go with the ruling that allow Europeans to legally sell any computer program to another person?

http://www.lo-ping.org/2012/07/03/eu-court-ruling-allows-for-re-sale-of-used-games-by-end-users-you/

“an author of software cannot oppose the resale of his ‘used’ licences allowing the use of his programs downloaded from the internet”.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale."


Well, go ahead and do it, after the ban, get a lawyer, test the precident and let us know how that works out for you.

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#18 - 2012-07-03 14:33:40 UTC
Not sure about stuff above but after few years of paying for this chars when im done with em this baby and other are going to e-bay.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Cebraio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-07-03 14:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cebraio
In the German article I read about it today, they talked about "unlimited right of utilization" that can be sold together with the software to a third party - after the software has been uninstalled.

You do not get this unlimited right of utilization from CCP. You pay a fee to access the game. This cannot be sold.

Also the software is distributed freely and the characters and in game items are property of CCP and also can not be sold. Sure character transfer is possible, but only because CCP allows it - and even then the character remains property of CCP.

This ruling IS interesting for gamers though, because it means Valve, EA, Blizzard and others might be forced to offer a way for selling used games - at least for EU customers. I'm looking forward to sell D3. Two weeks ago they refused my request.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-07-03 14:39:55 UTC
Internet lawyers

Roll

brb
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