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Stop killmails
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-09-19 17:03:56 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
OP is updated.


This still doesn't alliviate killmail farming with gate camps.

I consider this to be a problem because these players are taking little to no risks.

Missioners take more risks running lvl 4 missions than gate camps do.

They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.


If a player wants to keep track of every kill they have been involved in then they should film every kill they get involved in and save it, or post it on youtube.

Perhaps you can post these videos to the "I was there" eve thing and other players can comment on how your gate camp kills are weak and should be removed from the video archives.

Influencing players to farm killmails is actually changing to "sand box" theme of eve.

Instead of what happens, happens. It's telling the players, go out and make something happen.
That's not how sand boxes work. You react to the sand box, the sand box reacts to you.
Killmails have changed this.. You are no longer reacting to the sand box, but instead, making attempts for a reward outside of the sand box that changes the overall game play of eve. That's outiside involvement and takes away from the sand box
Baaldor
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#22 - 2011-09-19 17:48:19 UTC
You know, everyone is going the long way around on this issue.

Just make it plain for everyone to understand why you do not want kill mails.


Eve is too harsh and cold for you, and as sheeple, it makes you feel bad.

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#23 - 2011-09-19 17:50:53 UTC
The real problem is the point values of some ships. Manage to get that Dramiel in a Thrasher or Wolf? 30 points for you! Lose to a Dramiel in the same ships? 50 to 80 points lost! Battleships are worth 400 points but HACs are only 130.... You get the idea.
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#24 - 2011-09-19 17:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Messoroz
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
The real problem is the point values of some ships. Manage to get that Dramiel in a Thrasher or Wolf? 30 points for you! Lose to a Dramiel in the same ships? 50 to 80 points lost! Battleships are worth 400 points but HACs are only 130.... You get the idea.



Point values are for the individual kill board software developers to determine, it's not a CCP thing.


Quote:

They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.


They are bloody ******* pirates, do you want them showering you with ******* flowers instead? Next thing I'll probably see is people requesting CONCORD in null and low because it breaks the sandbox that they can be attacked freely.


The real problem is that CCP has made gate camping too easy, gate guns don't do **** to battlecruisers and battleships these days and so they can sit there all day tanking afk.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-09-19 18:06:59 UTC
Messoroz wrote:

Quote:

They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.


They are bloody ******* pirates, do you want them showering you with ******* flowers instead? Next thing I'll probably see is people requesting CONCORD in null and low because it breaks the sandbox that they can be attacked freely.


The real problem is that CCP has made gate camping too easy, gate guns don't do **** to battlecruisers and battleships these days and so they can sit there all day tanking afk.


I didn't say no more gate camps...

What I was stating is that the killmail system is the sole purpose for a lot of kills that are make in eve to include gate camp kills.

This is effecting the outcome of a sand box.

Remove the killmail system all together and there would probably be many things in eve that would change.

Perhaps instead of farming killmails through pirating, players would actually pick a choose battles worth fighting.

The killmail system is effecting the "sand box" of eve. Players aren't getting involved in pvp combat in a manner meant to benefit themselves, their corp, or their alliance, but are instead just killing for killmails.
Baaldor
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#26 - 2011-09-19 18:11:41 UTC
Joe Risalo wrote:
Messoroz wrote:

Quote:

They're getting free killmails for sitting at a gate and dropping insta everything on ships that comes through the gates.


They are bloody ******* pirates, do you want them showering you with ******* flowers instead? Next thing I'll probably see is people requesting CONCORD in null and low because it breaks the sandbox that they can be attacked freely.


The real problem is that CCP has made gate camping too easy, gate guns don't do **** to battlecruisers and battleships these days and so they can sit there all day tanking afk.


I didn't say no more gate camps...

What I was stating is that the killmail system is the sole purpose for a lot of kills that are make in eve to include gate camp kills.

This is effecting the outcome of a sand box.

Remove the killmail system all together and there would probably be many things in eve that would change.

Perhaps instead of farming killmails through pirating, players would actually pick a choose battles worth fighting.

The killmail system is effecting the "sand box" of eve. Players aren't getting involved in pvp combat in a manner meant to benefit themselves, their corp, or their alliance, but are instead just killing for killmails.


So essentially you wish to nerf everyone else's game, because it makes you fell all inadequate?

It is a friggin' game, points are scored and high lights are saved, if it bugs you this much don't read the KB's ffs.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#27 - 2011-09-19 19:13:53 UTC
Baaldor wrote:

So essentially you wish to nerf everyone else's game, because it makes you fell all inadequate?

It is a friggin' game, points are scored and high lights are saved, if it bugs you this much don't read the KB's ffs.


*Watches the point zoom past Baaldor.*

I post my losses. I post only one kill mail. All the rest I blame my corp or alliance.

I have no problem with PvP and do it frequently. It just irritates me beyond belief that there is these newbie killers, who are not doing it for any gain but to fluff up a point system.
Sure, if you are desperate enough to come and shoot my mining ship for ISK do that. Heck, if you need the ISK you can just chase me off and take the cans of ore.

However, shooting mining ships, indys and other things that help fuel this game just for a few meaningless points? That is wrong.

Kill mails make screwed up motivations.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Baaldor
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#28 - 2011-09-19 19:29:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

So essentially you wish to nerf everyone else's game, because it makes you fell all inadequate?

It is a friggin' game, points are scored and high lights are saved, if it bugs you this much don't read the KB's ffs.


*Watches the point zoom past Baaldor.*

I post my losses. I post only one kill mail. All the rest I blame my corp or alliance.

I have no problem with PvP and do it frequently. It just irritates me beyond belief that there is these newbie killers, who are not doing it for any gain but to fluff up a point system.
Sure, if you are desperate enough to come and shoot my mining ship for ISK do that. Heck, if you need the ISK you can just chase me off and take the cans of ore.

However, shooting mining ships, indys and other things that help fuel this game just for a few meaningless points? That is wrong.

Kill mails make screwed up motivations.


No i get the point, you just dd not like my response because it does not meet your expectations.

As far as motivations, I can tell you, that the initial motivation is to pewpew, THEN after, it is to fapfap.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#29 - 2011-09-19 19:34:19 UTC
Baaldor wrote:

No i get the point, you just dd not like my response because it does not meet your expectations.

As far as motivations, I can tell you, that the initial motivation is to pewpew, THEN after, it is to fapfap.


Where is the challenge in what they do? If there is no risk, then what is the point? No rush, no thrill. It is all just being a jerk.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Joss56
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2011-09-19 19:40:36 UTC
Not sure newbies are lke pokemon km's but in what I'm concerned:

Low sec "X" newb ship = scout | cyno alt | trap

Real newb? -10% chances it is one.

Do I care to have the KM? -I really don't GF about it.

Often I just don't care when I cross newb ships but already lost stuff to a cyno alt buddies, will I continue to not shoot them? -maybe, but chances are that i'll finaly get to the point : not blue shoot, newb or whatever.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#31 - 2011-09-19 19:45:19 UTC
Joss56 wrote:
...
Often I just don't care when I cross newb ships but already lost stuff to a cyno alt buddies, will I continue to not shoot them? -maybe, but chances are that i'll finaly get to the point : not blue shoot, newb or whatever.


In low sec, they can see you in Local. So, "Out or die." Then follow through if they can't take the hint.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Baaldor
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#32 - 2011-09-19 20:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

No i get the point, you just dd not like my response because it does not meet your expectations.

As far as motivations, I can tell you, that the initial motivation is to pewpew, THEN after, it is to fapfap.


Where is the challenge in what they do? If there is no risk, then what is the point? No rush, no thrill. It is all just being a jerk.


EDIT:

The forums accidentally the whole thing.

Anyway why should you care what the challenge is or not? Risk..yeah more than the the uberjew in a .9 running missions pointing at others bleating"no e-ehonor"
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
#33 - 2011-09-19 20:15:53 UTC
On another note, they should give the mission rats sleeper AI, complete with neuts, target cycling and other goodies. Who agrees?
Jenshae Chiroptera
#34 - 2011-09-19 20:30:31 UTC
Baaldor wrote:

Anyway why should you care what the challenge is or not? Risk..yeah more than the the uberjew in a .9 running missions pointing at others bleating"no e-ehonor"

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kill mails make screwed up motivations.


That impact on newbies, that impact on the number of people in the game that impact on the $$$ CCP makes, et cetera

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Sobic
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#35 - 2011-09-19 20:32:37 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Joss56 wrote:
...
Often I just don't care when I cross newb ships but already lost stuff to a cyno alt buddies, will I continue to not shoot them? -maybe, but chances are that i'll finaly get to the point : not blue shoot, newb or whatever.


In low sec, they can see you in Local. So, "Out or die." Then follow through if they can't take the hint.




5 mil per killmail of Jenshae Chiroptera.


See what I did there jen?

Ignorance breeds fear.

For every griefing tactic their is a counter that can be obtained with a little bit of critical THINKING.
The idea of a GAME is not to have the game protect you from losing said game.

Killmails are what make EVE PVP worth playing and every other MMO a joke.
You obviously are not here for the hunt, so you wont ever understand the motivation.

I do miss the days of Killmails that did not show everything though.
Way to easy for lazy groups of people to simply copy peoples well thought out designs.
Baaldor
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#36 - 2011-09-19 20:48:22 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

Anyway why should you care what the challenge is or not? Risk..yeah more than the the uberjew in a .9 running missions pointing at others bleating"no e-ehonor"

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Kill mails make screwed up motivations.


That impact on newbies, that impact on the number of people in the game that impact on the $$$ CCP makes, et cetera


Show me proof or it did not happen.

Show me the data and or evidence this is the case, otherwise you are just pulling it out of your ass.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#37 - 2011-09-19 20:51:48 UTC
Baaldor wrote:

Show me proof or it did not happen.

Show me the data and or evidence this is the case, otherwise you are just pulling it out of your ass.


Here I open it to the floor.

How many others of you have known people to rage quit because of jerks? Blink

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#38 - 2011-09-19 21:14:34 UTC
You seem to have missed what I'm sure is a HUGE driving factor behind all these kills you're crying so much about.

Fun.

For some people, it's fun to gank miners. For others, it's great fun to read threads like this where people cry about it. For others, the killmail is proof of a great fight, a kill in a ship that shouldn't have been capable of making it, or of a well known figure on the forums. Removing killmails would hurt fun.

Why do you hate fun?
Baaldor
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#39 - 2011-09-19 21:53:52 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Baaldor wrote:

Show me proof or it did not happen.

Show me the data and or evidence this is the case, otherwise you are just pulling it out of your ass.


Here I open it to the floor.

How many others of you have known people to rage quit because of jerks? Blink



*crickets*


Darwinism, working as intended.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-09-19 22:17:40 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
You seem to have missed what I'm sure is a HUGE driving factor behind all these kills you're crying so much about.

Fun.

For some people, it's fun to gank miners. For others, it's great fun to read threads like this where people cry about it. For others, the killmail is proof of a great fight, a kill in a ship that shouldn't have been capable of making it, or of a well known figure on the forums. Removing killmails would hurt fun.

Why do you hate fun?


I have no problem with the "fun" factor

I have no problem with people attempting to gank me is high sec

I have no problem knowing that there's damn good chance I'll die in low or null sec.

However, the killmail system effects the odds of someone ganking, gate camping, or just flying around looking for someone in low or null to blast.

The sand box system is effected by the killmail system which is an outside interference.

While the killmail system did not bring pvp combat into the game, it is responsible for the purpose a lot of people actually pvp for, and how they go about getting those kills.

If the killmail system were removed, sure, there would probably still be griefers out there, but a lot of griefing is simply for free killmails.

So, we'll set an example that is not based off anything, nor will the numbers actually be correct.

But lets say in the past week there were 100 missioners destroyed in pvp action

We'll say "for the tears" griefer, "for the killmail" griefers, wardec griefers, wardec killmail padding, and standard wardec usage are each responsible for 20% of those kills.

If the killmail system were taken out then that's 40% of the kills committed removed from the game.

This would factor with gate camps, low sec roams, and whatever other actions lead to pvp combat.

What I'm saying is without the killmail system Eve pvp could possibly be very different. Combat would either be based around greifing, protecting areas, wardeccing, and null sec warfare.

This wouldn't change the fact that players like to pvp, it would just suggest to them to stop committing kills that require little to no risks. Without killmails there would be no point in farming easy kills like indy ships, missioners, and newb baiting.

The killmail system is an outside source that is effecting the game itself and how the players respond in the sand box.
This takes away from the sand box effect and makes it a controlled game.
The point of a sand box is to allow the players to control and respond to the sand box.
Killmail system changes that.