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Before you complain about other players in the game.
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Dakeen Kurvora
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-06-10 03:53:34 UTC
Oh here is a good one. Guy says mining is PVP. Another guy says miners don't want to PVP. Huh? OOOOOOOOOHHHHH they aren't interested in combat PVP got you...ya. So what? Joe miner wants to mine and build his modules and ships, great means I don't have to do it. You can not tell/force people how to play, they just quit. Look at latest total mined graphs in the dev blogs. Some of that missing ore is coming off of alts of course. The rest is people either unsubbing for now or just not logging in. Notice any increase in the amount coming from low/null/w space? Nope.

I've done the whole mining thing myself. I don't do it now only because my personal tastes have changed. Came back to the game recently and started this combat pilot instead of going back to my industrial. Mining had its dangers back then but now they have an bigger target on their head, I'd be pissed too.
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
#82 - 2012-06-10 04:07:20 UTC
So we're still having this discussion?

Hell, these mythical whining carebears may be a plague to the game, but these very real internet tough guys are a plague to the forums. Call yourselves hardcore or whatever you want, but I've never such a repetitive group of people.

Don't get me wrong. I'm fully in support of what Eve 'is' or else I wouldn't be playing the damn game, but still. Why does this discussion pop up a million times everyday?

Who are you trying to convince? These mythical hordes of whining carebears? If they don't get it by now then they never will. CCP? If they don't meet your expectations then shut up, cancel your account, and move on.
Nikodiemus
Ganja Clade
Shadow Cartel
#83 - 2012-06-10 04:19:52 UTC
No other MMO offers a single shard and a single economy driven by players where it is easily affordable in game or through real world transaction to an in-game currency (PLEX) to instantly kill a player's investment (also including time, money (subscriptions), effort, and long term investment)

The addition of the T3 BC created a gap not compensated for by by the industrial devs (if there are any left) to create ships that can counter effortless instagib.

Single shooting high value ships with a ship as affordable as a destroyer or a T3 BC while suffering no consequences (the laughable buddy system and a game where multiple simultaneous accounts is both accepted and encouraged with 3 characters given to each account) defeats the purpose of the sandbox.

A productive system would be one that transects characters and accounts leading to a penalty system that seriously punishes people and their accounts, new or old, related to the incident or not.

The essence of the sandbox is adaptation - if one kid (alliance) forces you to build your castle with wet sand, you and your buddies turn the tables and build your castle with sand and dirt, more stable. Eve does not allow this and the benefit is being given to the aggressors who work only game mechanics and care nothing for the spirit of the game.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#84 - 2012-06-10 04:29:22 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:
No other MMO offers a single shard and a single economy driven by players where it is easily affordable in game or through real world transaction to an in-game currency (PLEX) to instantly kill a player's investment (also including time, money (subscriptions), effort, and long term investment)

The addition of the T3 BC created a gap not compensated for by by the industrial devs (if there are any left) to create ships that can counter effortless instagib.

Single shooting high value ships with a ship as affordable as a destroyer or a T3 BC while suffering no consequences (the laughable buddy system and a game where multiple simultaneous accounts is both accepted and encouraged with 3 characters given to each account) defeats the purpose of the sandbox.


The t3 BC gank of today costs more than the AlphaBS gank did before the t3 were introduced. The insurance nerf compensated for the introduction of the t3 BCs perfectly as far as ganking cost is concerned.

Destroyer Ganks do not single-shot anything. They beat them down with high DPS (again, at a higher cost than the pre-dessiebuff/insurancenerf thorax ganks). The fact that they do not single-shot their targets leaves them open to disruption via death or ECM jam (i.e. an AlphaNado of your own or ECM drones) if they're shooting down a tanked Hulk.

If you're going to claim that ganking has gotten too cheap, it helps to include all the game mechanical factors that affect the cost of ganking.

If you want to make your hulk less cheap to gank, it helps to fit a tank or take some measures to protect your expensive investment.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Uinuva Karma
Doomheim
#85 - 2012-06-10 04:42:14 UTC
Nikodiemus wrote:

The essence of the sandbox is adaptation - if one kid (alliance) forces you to build your castle with wet sand, you and your buddies turn the tables and build your castle with sand and dirt, more stable. Eve does not allow this and the benefit is being given to the aggressors who work only game mechanics and care nothing for the spirit of the game.


Yes it does, castlebuilding happens outside the beginner systems. Take your buddies and claim your own space, make it as strong as you want.

This is the idea of EVE, the sandbox. Not clinging on to the starter area.

Captain Kirk didn't stay in hisec. 
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#86 - 2012-06-10 04:52:46 UTC
Disregard That wrote:
Statistically speaking why would more botters be caught in high-sec than in low-sec?

Are you implying that CCP uses different metrics between the two security levels?

Maybe null doesn't have logs?

Statistically, if more botters are caught in Caldari High-sec than anywhere else, that means that in all likelihood that's where the most botters are.

Edit: I like the part how I'm winning Eve and you tell me I'm losing.


so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#87 - 2012-06-10 05:12:25 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
Statistically speaking why would more botters be caught in high-sec than in low-sec?

Are you implying that CCP uses different metrics between the two security levels?

Maybe null doesn't have logs?

Statistically, if more botters are caught in Caldari High-sec than anywhere else, that means that in all likelihood that's where the most botters are.

Edit: I like the part how I'm winning Eve and you tell me I'm losing.


so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much


You're assuming we gank you because we don't like what you do. That assumption is faulty.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#88 - 2012-06-10 05:23:55 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Aramatheia wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
Statistically speaking why would more botters be caught in high-sec than in low-sec?

Are you implying that CCP uses different metrics between the two security levels?

Maybe null doesn't have logs?

Statistically, if more botters are caught in Caldari High-sec than anywhere else, that means that in all likelihood that's where the most botters are.

Edit: I like the part how I'm winning Eve and you tell me I'm losing.


so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much


You're assuming we gank you because we don't like what you do. That assumption is faulty.


perhaps not all gankers, but what about the ones who yell without hesitation how all high sec players need to be killed. They send a pretty loud and clear message. And while im not saying highsec should be immune. I think they should first off realise that high sec mining isnt the bountifull bag of goodness they think (except for 25/8 botters). And that thier not champions of a noble cause. Thier kicking kittens, not really anyhting to be proud off. I respect killmails showing fighting ships a hell of alot more than killmails of hulks, mackinaws and industrials.

dont make high sec safe, but drop the acts of "high sec mining is too rich" and "champions of the light"
Qolde
Comms Black
Pandemic Horde
#89 - 2012-06-10 05:56:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Qolde
Nikodiemus wrote:
No other MMO offers a single shard and a single economy driven by players where it is easily affordable in game or through real world transaction to an in-game currency (PLEX) to instantly kill a player's investment (also including time, money (subscriptions), effort, and long term investment)

The addition of the T3 BC created a gap not compensated for by by the industrial devs (if there are any left) to create ships that can counter effortless instagib.

Single shooting high value ships with a ship as affordable as a destroyer or a T3 BC while suffering no consequences (the laughable buddy system and a game where multiple simultaneous accounts is both accepted and encouraged with 3 characters given to each account) defeats the purpose of the sandbox.

A productive system would be one that transects characters and accounts leading to a penalty system that seriously punishes people and their accounts, new or old, related to the incident or not.

The essence of the sandbox is adaptation - if one kid (alliance) forces you to build your castle with wet sand, you and your buddies turn the tables and build your castle with sand and dirt, more stable. Eve does not allow this and the benefit is being given to the aggressors who work only game mechanics and care nothing for the spirit of the game.

Exactly. No other game offers us the chance to prove what we can do in comparison to EVERYONE else who plays this game. Theres no best on this server. There is only the best. And what defines the BEST? Well that depends on what you are trying to do. I have seen enough POSTERS, who are rarer than you'd believe, to see that there are many hulks survivng hulkageddon. There are many mission runners who have never been ganked. There's even a person who's never been podded. WTF?!

The only people who complain about the game on the forums are the ones who can't play it. n00bs. Let me show you when I was a n00b.

the beginning
1
2
lolfunfactorwhileratting

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#90 - 2012-06-10 06:00:24 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:

perhaps not all gankers, but what about the ones who yell without hesitation how all high sec players need to be killed. They send a pretty loud and clear message. And while im not saying highsec should be immune. I think they should first off realise that high sec mining isnt the bountifull bag of goodness they think (except for 25/8 botters). And that thier not champions of a noble cause. Thier kicking kittens, not really anyhting to be proud off. I respect killmails showing fighting ships a hell of alot more than killmails of hulks, mackinaws and industrials.

dont make high sec safe, but drop the acts of "high sec mining is too rich" and "champions of the light"


They could be kidding or RPing. Or they could be serious, what do I care?

Nobody's yelling that it's too rich (if they were, disrupting it would be silly, since disruption makes mineral prices go up, thus making it more lucrative). The problem is that miners have gotten used to and subsequently developed a sense of entitlement to the ability to make Isk almost completely AFK. This has lead them to (wrongly) believe that HiSec space should be "safe" or that their untanked Max Yield/Cargo Hulks should be ungankable. This belief has led them to make annoying posts on the forums. These annoying posts on the forums have led to people disliking miners due to their inability to comprehend simple premises of EvE that have not changed since Beta; namely that you are never safe.

I am not saying all of this applies to you, personally. But it does apply to most of the people who are writing threads whinging about getting ganked.

As for respect, if you don't like shooting exhumers, that's totally fine. But you have to admit that ganking exhumers is also totally fine and is at the very least, more effort than AFK mining is. Whether you respect the gankers for their specialized skills (it does take some skill to pull off successful, cost effective ganks) or not is entirely up to you.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Qolde
Comms Black
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2012-06-10 06:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Qolde
Qolde wrote:
Nikodiemus wrote:
No other MMO offers a single shard and a single economy driven by players where it is easily affordable in game or through real world transaction to an in-game currency (PLEX) to instantly kill a player's investment (also including time, money (subscriptions), effort, and long term investment)

The addition of the T3 BC created a gap not compensated for by by the industrial devs (if there are any left) to create ships that can counter effortless instagib.

Single shooting high value ships with a ship as affordable as a destroyer or a T3 BC while suffering no consequences (the laughable buddy system and a game where multiple simultaneous accounts is both accepted and encouraged with 3 characters given to each account) defeats the purpose of the sandbox.

A productive system would be one that transects characters and accounts leading to a penalty system that seriously punishes people and their accounts, new or old, related to the incident or not.

The essence of the sandbox is adaptation - if one kid (alliance) forces you to build your castle with wet sand, you and your buddies turn the tables and build your castle with sand and dirt, more stable. Eve does not allow this and the benefit is being given to the aggressors who work only game mechanics and care nothing for the spirit of the game.

Exactly. No other game offers us the chance to prove what we can do in comparison to EVERYONE else who plays this game. Theres no best on this server. There is only the best. And what defines the BEST? Well that depends on what you are trying to do. I have seen enough POSTERS, who are rarer than you'd believe, to see that there are many hulks survivng hulkageddon. There are many mission runners who have never been ganked. There's even a person who's never been podded. WTF?!

The only people who complain about the game on the forums are the ones who can't play it. n00bs. Let me show you when I was a n00b.

the beginning
1
2
lolfunfactorwhileratting

/bennyhillvoice
Back in my day, high sec was only for new players, Wardecs against sovereign and ALTS of the sovereign. The fact that there are people who think that they can live there indefinitely unharassed is appalling to the meaning of the game.

If someone craps in your sandbox: 1. Light it on fire 2. Grab your shovel 3. Throw it back at them.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#92 - 2012-06-10 08:23:32 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Aramatheia wrote:

perhaps not all gankers, but what about the ones who yell without hesitation how all high sec players need to be killed. They send a pretty loud and clear message. And while im not saying highsec should be immune. I think they should first off realise that high sec mining isnt the bountifull bag of goodness they think (except for 25/8 botters). And that thier not champions of a noble cause. Thier kicking kittens, not really anyhting to be proud off. I respect killmails showing fighting ships a hell of alot more than killmails of hulks, mackinaws and industrials.

dont make high sec safe, but drop the acts of "high sec mining is too rich" and "champions of the light"


They could be kidding or RPing. Or they could be serious, what do I care?

Nobody's yelling that it's too rich (if they were, disrupting it would be silly, since disruption makes mineral prices go up, thus making it more lucrative). The problem is that miners have gotten used to and subsequently developed a sense of entitlement to the ability to make Isk almost completely AFK. This has lead them to (wrongly) believe that HiSec space should be "safe" or that their untanked Max Yield/Cargo Hulks should be ungankable. This belief has led them to make annoying posts on the forums. These annoying posts on the forums have led to people disliking miners due to their inability to comprehend simple premises of EvE that have not changed since Beta; namely that you are never safe.

I am not saying all of this applies to you, personally. But it does apply to most of the people who are writing threads whinging about getting ganked.

As for respect, if you don't like shooting exhumers, that's totally fine. But you have to admit that ganking exhumers is also totally fine and is at the very least, more effort than AFK mining is. Whether you respect the gankers for their specialized skills (it does take some skill to pull off successful, cost effective ganks) or not is entirely up to you.


i'm not joining the bandwagon of delete guns from highsec. In fact i think im guilty of becoming what i actually hate and that is a person who hates another demographic just cause of how they act. I'll get over myself soon enough i hope. I dont hate the act of blowing stuff up, its just the attitudes the most vocal supporters have. Like thier some sort of CCP/Eve saviour crew.

You may be right it could all be just RP and i might just be making myself look like a big ass fail on these forums. Thats something im willing to eat i guess, just like when i lost my last mining ship. If you look me up on those combat board thingo's you'll see i've had almost no pvp experience. But thats not cause im scared to lose a ship, but mostly cause i havent found an enjoyable means of doing it yet.

For the time being i'll just carry on providing the tools pvpers use to do thier thing, and in another 5 days i'll roll out my own tanked hulk and up the output further
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#93 - 2012-06-10 08:54:14 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Aramatheia wrote:

perhaps not all gankers, but what about the ones who yell without hesitation how all high sec players need to be killed. They send a pretty loud and clear message. And while im not saying highsec should be immune. I think they should first off realise that high sec mining isnt the bountifull bag of goodness they think (except for 25/8 botters). And that thier not champions of a noble cause. Thier kicking kittens, not really anyhting to be proud off. I respect killmails showing fighting ships a hell of alot more than killmails of hulks, mackinaws and industrials.

dont make high sec safe, but drop the acts of "high sec mining is too rich" and "champions of the light"


They could be kidding or RPing. Or they could be serious, what do I care?

Nobody's yelling that it's too rich (if they were, disrupting it would be silly, since disruption makes mineral prices go up, thus making it more lucrative). The problem is that miners have gotten used to and subsequently developed a sense of entitlement to the ability to make Isk almost completely AFK. This has lead them to (wrongly) believe that HiSec space should be "safe" or that their untanked Max Yield/Cargo Hulks should be ungankable. This belief has led them to make annoying posts on the forums. These annoying posts on the forums have led to people disliking miners due to their inability to comprehend simple premises of EvE that have not changed since Beta; namely that you are never safe.

I am not saying all of this applies to you, personally. But it does apply to most of the people who are writing threads whinging about getting ganked.

As for respect, if you don't like shooting exhumers, that's totally fine. But you have to admit that ganking exhumers is also totally fine and is at the very least, more effort than AFK mining is. Whether you respect the gankers for their specialized skills (it does take some skill to pull off successful, cost effective ganks) or not is entirely up to you.


i'm not joining the bandwagon of delete guns from highsec. In fact i think im guilty of becoming what i actually hate and that is a person who hates another demographic just cause of how they act. I'll get over myself soon enough i hope. I dont hate the act of blowing stuff up, its just the attitudes the most vocal supporters have. Like thier some sort of CCP/Eve saviour crew.

You may be right it could all be just RP and i might just be making myself look like a big ass fail on these forums. Thats something im willing to eat i guess, just like when i lost my last mining ship. If you look me up on those combat board thingo's you'll see i've had almost no pvp experience. But thats not cause im scared to lose a ship, but mostly cause i havent found an enjoyable means of doing it yet.

For the time being i'll just carry on providing the tools pvpers use to do thier thing, and in another 5 days i'll roll out my own tanked hulk and up the output further


You are an EvE player who mines. Your attitude is exactly what's missing from the miner's who are stuck in EvE and whine about it.

Now stop letting yourself get conned into not shooting people. Go do it. Maybe join a corp that suits your style.
For a PvP intro, RvB is pretty good, Rifterlings and Black Rebel Rifter Club fly frigates, that's what's off the top of my head.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Arec Bardwin
#94 - 2012-06-10 09:34:38 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Qolde wrote:
Including the Devs:
Permaband - HTFU
This one is better.
Brilliant
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#95 - 2012-06-10 12:25:07 UTC
Aramatheia wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
Statistically speaking why would more botters be caught in high-sec than in low-sec?

Are you implying that CCP uses different metrics between the two security levels?

Maybe null doesn't have logs?

Statistically, if more botters are caught in Caldari High-sec than anywhere else, that means that in all likelihood that's where the most botters are.

Edit: I like the part how I'm winning Eve and you tell me I'm losing.


so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much

Hello Spacefriend,

We are not ganking miners so we can pretend to do CCPs job of clearing out miners for them. CCP doesn't need us to hold their hands (but I might just let them if they ask nice and act real gentlemanly about it!)

Also, bots don't whine about being shot on the forums for days after the fact. I'm personally holding out for a bot program that will though~
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2012-06-10 12:29:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dakeen Kurvora wrote:
Oh here is a good one. Guy says mining is PVP. Another guy says miners don't want to PVP. Huh?
What's confusing you about it?

Mining is PvP.
Miners wish it weren't.

Also, miners say they don't want to PvP.
Others say the already are, through their mining.

Not that difficult.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#97 - 2012-06-10 13:45:01 UTC
David Cedarbridge wrote:
Aramatheia wrote:
Disregard That wrote:
Statistically speaking why would more botters be caught in high-sec than in low-sec?

Are you implying that CCP uses different metrics between the two security levels?

Maybe null doesn't have logs?

Statistically, if more botters are caught in Caldari High-sec than anywhere else, that means that in all likelihood that's where the most botters are.

Edit: I like the part how I'm winning Eve and you tell me I'm losing.


so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much

Hello Spacefriend,

We are not ganking miners so we can pretend to do CCPs job of clearing out miners for them. CCP doesn't need us to hold their hands (but I might just let them if they ask nice and act real gentlemanly about it!)

Also, bots don't whine about being shot on the forums for days after the fact. I'm personally holding out for a bot program that will though~


sigh i typed a huge long post in reply to this but upon clicking post it erased my post and left me with nothing.. im not retyping it all just want to say read my last post, the one you quoted is one where im doing what i hate which is, raging at people raging at people.

im not against stuff blowing up nor am i against protecting my own assets and making them less appealing to the folks who do the blowing up
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2012-06-10 14:19:56 UTC
On the rare occasion when I mine, I carry t2 medium combat drones for self defence to at least give me a fighting chance to escape.

This does seem to be common practise when not mining afk. On the the other hand, There are miners who use mining drones as well as the roid lasers ( I dont see the point of this when the yield is huge on the mine strippers).


I know Eve is hard, but at the same time a great game, after 6 years playing I still cant beleive the doctine of some miners is to go for all out yield instead of investing some time and isk on self-defence when its also a game of survival.

I dont pretend to know what they are thinking and can only guess its these guys that are posting and crying about being raped soz ganked in hi-sec.

Enjoy your game Cool

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-06-10 15:51:11 UTC
Uinuva Karma wrote:
Take your buddies and claim your own space, make it as strong as you want.

Get hot-dropped a week later and lose it all...

WTF kind of crack are you on?

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Barbara Nichole
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2012-06-10 16:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbara Nichole
Qolde wrote:
Welcome to Eve.

"EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." --CCP Wrangler *

Nonconsensual Ship combat will not go away. Eve didn't even have sentry guns or CONCORD at the beginning. It is part of the core philosophy of the game........
............

.....When Band of Brothers believed that G Alliance had a mothership on the build, they didn't whine for them to be nerfed, they round up others who would fight with them, and sieged EC-P8R 23/7 for a week.

When Goonswarm first started. They weren't the most experienced players, but they had the drive. They took out veteran alliances battleship fleets with rifters. RIFTERS. Look at them today.

So before you post, think about what you're going to say, and if it will even be worth your typing. Please.

*the actual quote is here as pointed out by Yuda Mann



No intelligent person has said " let's remove all the danger from the game" or even just from high sec. What they've said that riles your feathers is that suicide ganking is overpowered, the battles are lopsided, and they need to be re-examined... that's all.

Yeah goon is the new bob... great.

  - remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not  "afk" cloaking -

[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG]