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Warfare & Tactics

 
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New Mechanics and NPC's

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BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#121 - 2012-06-05 13:19:11 UTC
What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.

*climbs in his boat*


Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now


AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#122 - 2012-06-05 13:22:37 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ok; where to start?


We know it must be frustrating to be stuck in a set of feature mechanics that yes, seriously suck for years and have the development team ignore you for a long while. Hell, if I was in your situation I would probably be as bitter as you are right now.

However, that is no reason to be plainly offensive or disrespectful in your feedback. Believe it or not, we actually care about Factional Warfare state, which is why we have been willing to iterate on it. We even pleaded, argued long and hard to have this feature looked up again for Inferno and this winter to make sure we would fix it properly before moving on to other things.

Despite what you may think, we actually are listening to feedback, which is why we are taking personal time that should be spent on other projects right now (like ship balancing for example, that affects a far larger section of the player base) to look at NPC balancing and complex bug fixing.

Yes, plexing could be perfected, and it's quite easy to bash developers non-stop and throw a tantrum when you don't get things your way, but in reality things are different. We have a lot of pressure coming from different parties to do other stuff as well, we have various projects we have to follow, team is busy cleaning defects from Inferno, and without to say summer vacations are coming as well. Thus totally revamping FW sites with complex mechanics and AI is just plain not possible for now. And I said "for now" because we really want to keep iterating when we get the manpower back to do so this winter.

So I will be plainly honest, we feel your pain and we have put personal extra hours to alleviate it and try to make you happy, because we care as much as you do, possibly more. We do not expect a grand applause or feast in our honor because, as you said, things are still far from being balanced right now, but we at least expect some respect and proper constructive comments in the feedback you give us.

So we would please ask to keep the discussion civil, it is not because we are CCP employees we have to be treated like some kind of stray dogs. If this is the kind of reward for investing ourselves so much here we may as well work in another feature for the time being.


Thank you.


For what its worth Ytterbium I think you guys are off to a great start and I certainly appreciate the effort and focus you've put on Faction Warfare so far this year. I can appreciate the frustration you must feel reading the incessant whining and complaints of various respondants to these threads (especially those who by their own admission no longer play FW!)

I think you are within your rights to expect to be treated with some basic respect and I for one hope we can all return to a climate of constructive interaction on these forums.

Please don't let the random frothing nonsense put you off. Unfortunately the passionate involvement many players feel for this game can turn to the bitter seething anger of the jilted lover (mentioning no names Veshta) and you just need to ignore that stuff and have a nice cup of tea.

All the best and chin up Ytterbium. Keep the changes coming!

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Dopified
Black Eagle5
#123 - 2012-06-05 15:52:54 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.

*climbs in his boat*


Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now


AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT


Well all i can say is you dont see things as aparently most people do. It is called a numbers game. If you can field a crap ton more plexers and keep them going as cheap as you guys can then you can do what is happening. Look at the numbers. Caldari are outplexing everyone by 3000-4000+ victory points a day and yes this is due in large to Alts with low sp running timers all over with no resistence. It does not matter if they are in backwater systems or Nenna. Same as any other war it is a numbers game and when you put up larger numbers like that you can not win no matter what. It is going to happen that we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened. I know it feels good to win but doing it without pvp or any resistence is pretty lame. Try getting out of your tanking interceptor and fighting for a change Bolster. Lets see you laugh when we destroy you some more.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#124 - 2012-06-05 15:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
BolsterBomb wrote:
What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.

*climbs in his boat*

Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now

AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT
/me still waiting
Gallente Militia Update: absurd afk defensive plexing fleet assembled to counter ridiculous numbers of Caldari afk plexing alts. Time to move on the offensive. Was nice knowing you Bolster. Big smile
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#125 - 2012-06-05 16:17:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Joanna Ramirez
Dopified wrote:
we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened.


No. If you care enough about the system, it's not going to flip since you live there. And right now you have lost....wait for it, non-station systems, which by all accounts nobody gives a flying piece of brown horse pudding. (Or did you actually have some assets locked in Aivonen/Hallanen, somehow I doubt)

You seem pissed off that afk plexing for lp/occupancy is only 2/3 as effective right now for gallente as it is for caldari. You would not consider afk plexing wrong in the least if it was reversed. Low sp alts can take any gallente plex, so what? Low sp alts can easily take minor/med caldari plexes afk. Both are time consuming and tedious things to counter, does not matter if you do it with main or alt and both are equally wrong.

As for x gal threathening about alt army. If you would be serious, you would not boast about it, you would just do it. And to be honest, it will burn you out very rapidly. Also, do Minmatar even get locked out of hostile systems in Black Rise or did CCP do another "drop the ball" loophole to militia rules?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#126 - 2012-06-05 16:23:02 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
As for x gal threathening about alt army. If you would be serious, you would not boast about it, you would just do it. And to be honest, it will burn you out very rapidly.
Only "boasting" because having to use one to defend space while still having fun in game is absurd. Kind of like when you "boasted" about plex bug to point out absurd bug in code.
Joanna Ramirez
Intaki Militia
#127 - 2012-06-05 16:25:08 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Only "boasting" because having to use one to defend space while still having fun in game is absurd. Kind of like when you "boasted" about plex bug to point out absurd bug in code.


Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?

And again, plex bug was used by your side first, like most other bugs. I merely put it out for all to see.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#128 - 2012-06-05 16:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?


Not since this new patch, this new patch is fantastic fun, it's brought pvp back to plexes. Sure, one day it might lead to Nenna being taken, but then meh, drop militia for a day JF/carrier jump all my ships to some nearby non-FW lowsec system and continue the pew pew.

I had already unsubbed my alt and was just waiting for this accounts sub to expire before this patch came out, and grudgingly gave the new patch a go, but DAMN. Eve crack is back!
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#129 - 2012-06-05 16:31:16 UTC
Joanna Ramirez wrote:

Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?

And again, plex bug was used by your side first, like most other bugs. I merely put it out for all to see.
Eve is fun for the most part. Balancing the fun and getting the tedious stuff done is a nice challenge too.

And thanks for pointing out and then emphasizing the bug. Hopefully CCP will fix it sooner rather than later.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2012-06-05 16:49:18 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo.

There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it.

There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed).


Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#131 - 2012-06-05 17:02:47 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo.

There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it.

There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed).


Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.


That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1.

I assume that "count down to zero" you mean "count back to the default start state", not "count down and then auto-capture" because the latter would be crazy exploited.

That means if you are chasing an plexer that doesn't want to fight at all, at the very least he's not making any progress while you chase him.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#132 - 2012-06-05 17:05:30 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:

Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.


That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1.
Not a bad start.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#133 - 2012-06-05 17:45:17 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Joanna Ramirez wrote:
Fun & Eve dont really go hand in hand, dont you think?


Not since this new patch, this new patch is fantastic fun, it's brought pvp back to plexes. Sure, one day it might lead to Nenna being taken, but then meh, drop militia for a day JF/carrier jump all my ships to some nearby non-FW lowsec system and continue the pew pew.

I had already unsubbed my alt and was just waiting for this accounts sub to expire before this patch came out, and grudgingly gave the new patch a go, but DAMN. Eve crack is back!



lol too funny

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-06-05 17:47:09 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Julius Foederatus wrote:

Was just thinking about this. Maybe a partial solution is that when you leave the button in an offensive plex, the timer starts counting back down to zero by itself. So instead of forcing the defender to run the timer back himself and waste his time after forcing out an attacker, and having the attacker come back after boring him to death, the attacker has to basically start over again if he waits too long and doesn't fight.


That's actually a fantastic idea. Seriously, +1.
Not a bad start.



I would endorse

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#135 - 2012-06-05 17:47:50 UTC
Dopified wrote:
BolsterBomb wrote:
What I find very humorous is the gals really think they are losing their space due to ask farmers.....I can see the flood of tears now.

*climbs in his boat*


Just wait till we knock you out of nenn. I can hear it now


AFK FARMERS CAUSED STATION LOCKOUOT


Well all i can say is you dont see things as aparently most people do. It is called a numbers game. If you can field a crap ton more plexers and keep them going as cheap as you guys can then you can do what is happening. Look at the numbers. Caldari are outplexing everyone by 3000-4000+ victory points a day and yes this is due in large to Alts with low sp running timers all over with no resistence. It does not matter if they are in backwater systems or Nenna. Same as any other war it is a numbers game and when you put up larger numbers like that you can not win no matter what. It is going to happen that we will lose our system. Even BM just admitted it in his post that there is something up with low sp toons going to town. But you are the only one that can not see this or as stated before have your isk making machine threatened. I know it feels good to win but doing it without pvp or any resistence is pretty lame. Try getting out of your tanking interceptor and fighting for a change Bolster. Lets see you laugh when we destroy you some more.



you're still here? The funny farm is that way ---------->

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Cutout Man
Doomheim
#136 - 2012-06-05 17:50:30 UTC
sorry for only reading page 1, but:

why should ANYONE be allowed to AFK combat for system control? AFK plexing should be impossible.
BolsterBomb
Perkone
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-06-05 17:51:13 UTC
Cutout Man wrote:
sorry for only reading page 1, but:

why should ANYONE be allowed to AFK combat for system control? AFK plexing should be impossible.



why can you afk mine

Brig General of The Caldari State

"Don" Bolsterbomb

Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#138 - 2012-06-05 18:11:11 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
CCP talked about making plexxing a pvp activity, but they did not deliver. They still need to work on this imo.

There's NO WAY any activity in Eve can be a pvp activity if one side chooses to not engage. If you can tell us how to force both sides to engage, then let's hear it.

There can only be consequences if one side chooses not to engage. The short term consequences (have to sit on button for a long time, have to continue to defend bunker forever while wts are free to do what they want) are a penalty to most of the people who won (either by pvp, or because the other side bailed), not the people who lost (either fled or were killed).


You assume the only way to promote pvp is to force someone to engage. Thats simply not true.

A notification system combined with the ending of the stupid station lock out rule would promote much more pvp in plexes.

Why are so many people doing afk plexes? Because they can get away with it very easilly. Why can they get away with it? Because no one wants to keep chasing them to keep eyes on where they are going.

Solution: Have the npcs keep eyes on them and report when they enter plexes. That way the pvpers can be fighting or doing timers assured that their work isn't just going to be undone by alt plexers the minute they leave system.

We don't force them to pvp but we take away allot of their efficiency at alt plexing. It brings us much closer to the ultimate goal of having everyone who enters a plex be fit and ready to fight for it.

This combined with something like the timer count down would go a long way.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#139 - 2012-06-05 18:12:15 UTC
BolsterBomb wrote:
Cutout Man wrote:
sorry for only reading page 1, but:

why should ANYONE be allowed to AFK combat for system control? AFK plexing should be impossible.



why can you afk mine


You can't lock someone out of a station because you mined in the system for 10 hours.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#140 - 2012-06-05 18:46:55 UTC
Cearain wrote:


You assume the only way to promote pvp is to force someone to engage. Thats simply not true.

A notification system combined with the ending of the stupid station lock out rule would promote much more pvp in plexes.

Why are so many people doing afk plexes? Because they can get away with it very easilly. Why can they get away with it? Because no one wants to keep chasing them to keep eyes on where they are going.

Solution: Have the npcs keep eyes on them and report when they enter plexes. That way the pvpers can be fighting or doing timers assured that their work isn't just going to be undone by alt plexers the minute they leave system.

We don't force them to pvp but we take away allot of their efficiency at alt plexing. It brings us much closer to the ultimate goal of having everyone who enters a plex be fit and ready to fight for it.

This combined with something like the timer count down would go a long way.
You misread. I said that pvp occurs when two sides decide to engage.

But agreed. Julius' timer idea plus notification system gets us closer to where we want to be.