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Is the penalty for suicide-ganking too high?
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nat longshot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2012-05-31 07:11:21 UTC
there one you forgot that no one trys to use.

U get ganked you have KILL RIGHTS on the S.O.B that gank you hunt him down and killem for crying out loud then he has a double loss.

 [13:12:18] CCP Punkturis nat longshot you're a cutie.. OH YAH I WIN!!
Mangold
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
#62 - 2012-05-31 07:19:37 UTC
Ganking in high sec is as much carebearism as mining used to be.

It's not really pvp it's more player vs npc as in "can I kill this ship bofore Concord kills me".

And tbh, all crap about miners can defend themselves against gankers is utter bullshit. Every single ship in highsec is possible to gank if you really want to.
pussnheels
Viziam
#63 - 2012-05-31 07:22:26 UTC
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Ganking isn't as easy as one may think. Don't forget the victim only sees the epitome of the gank; that final 10 seconds climax of work the ganker had to do. One mistake, and the gank will fail.

A successful gank takes a good amount of preparation, scouting, logistics and tactical positioning. On top of that there are factors which the ganker can never be 100% sure of such as skills trained.

The "art" of ganking relies on figuring out the cheapest setup(s) for the gank.

Ganking actually takes more work than gate camping, unless you plan to overkill. The best gankers do not overkill and are ready to get the occasional failed gank.

True indeed for a older more experienced pilot ,but this generation of newplayers don t like effort
Also i think there is nothing wrong with suicide tactics , only thing wrong is this whole campaign with the goal to ruin the game and eventually force a large group [i even dare to say the large majority) of players out of the game

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2012-05-31 07:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Mangold wrote:
And tbh, all crap about miners can defend themselves against gankers is utter bullshit.


I was unaware that actually tanking an Exhumer instead of going for max cargo/max yield & staying aligned was utter bullshit.

Thank you for bringing this up.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#65 - 2012-05-31 07:31:18 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
The main problem in this whole debate seems to be that there is little or no control on the recycling of characters because their security status is to low
EULA clearly states that the repeated recycling of characters due to low security status is seen as a exploit by ccp
It only takes a relative short time to train for a dedicated suicide pilot even so shorter than trying to recover your security status thru grinding belt rats in low or 0.0 sec, second also takes effort something these griefers tend to avoid at all cost , effort

CCP been so transfixed on finding rmt traders and bots , rightly so, that they have little or norescources left to check all the characters being recycled

so ppeople are fully abusing the recycling of characters who s sec status be ame so low due to suicideganking that they can t even enter high sec anymore

Better and more control will go a long way


Most dedicated gankers don't bother recycling alts. Especially since CCP bans people pretty quick if they biomass too soon after a gank.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#66 - 2012-05-31 07:36:52 UTC
Penalty for suicide ganking is not too high until spontaneous self combustion upon boarding a ship is introduced for all gankers, in any system security status. Also, I think gankers should pay at least triple subscription costs.

Lol
pussnheels
Viziam
#67 - 2012-05-31 08:00:59 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
The main problem in this whole debate seems to be that there is little or no control on the recycling of characters because their security status is to low
EULA clearly states that the repeated recycling of characters due to low security status is seen as a exploit by ccp
It only takes a relative short time to train for a dedicated suicide pilot even so shorter than trying to recover your security status thru grinding belt rats in low or 0.0 sec, second also takes effort something these griefers tend to avoid at all cost , effort

CCP been so transfixed on finding rmt traders and bots , rightly so, that they have little or norescources left to check all the characters being recycled

so ppeople are fully abusing the recycling of characters who s sec status be ame so low due to suicideganking that they can t even enter high sec anymore

Better and more control will go a long way


Most dedicated gankers don't bother recycling alts. Especially since CCP bans people pretty quick if they biomass too soon after a gank.

you might not but there are plenty out there who do and even boast about it and they getting away with it somehow

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#68 - 2012-05-31 08:03:24 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
pussnheels wrote:
The main problem in this whole debate seems to be that there is little or no control on the recycling of characters because their security status is to low
EULA clearly states that the repeated recycling of characters due to low security status is seen as a exploit by ccp
It only takes a relative short time to train for a dedicated suicide pilot even so shorter than trying to recover your security status thru grinding belt rats in low or 0.0 sec, second also takes effort something these griefers tend to avoid at all cost , effort

CCP been so transfixed on finding rmt traders and bots , rightly so, that they have little or norescources left to check all the characters being recycled

so ppeople are fully abusing the recycling of characters who s sec status be ame so low due to suicideganking that they can t even enter high sec anymore

Better and more control will go a long way


Most dedicated gankers don't bother recycling alts. Especially since CCP bans people pretty quick if they biomass too soon after a gank.

you might not but there are plenty out there who do and even boast about it and they getting away with it somehow


Some people lie. Even when they're boasting.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#69 - 2012-05-31 09:05:04 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
Thor Kerrigan wrote:
Ganking isn't as easy as one may think. Don't forget the victim only sees the epitome of the gank; that final 10 seconds climax of work the ganker had to do. One mistake, and the gank will fail.

A successful gank takes a good amount of preparation, scouting, logistics and tactical positioning. On top of that there are factors which the ganker can never be 100% sure of such as skills trained.

The "art" of ganking relies on figuring out the cheapest setup(s) for the gank.

Ganking actually takes more work than gate camping, unless you plan to overkill. The best gankers do not overkill and are ready to get the occasional failed gank.

True indeed for a older more experienced pilot ,but this generation of newplayers don t like effort
Also i think there is nothing wrong with suicide tactics , only thing wrong is this whole campaign with the goal to ruin the game and eventually force a large group [i even dare to say the large majority) of players out of the game


I would agree with your statement if carebear ideas were aimed at improving the game, not nurturing it. In my opinion, any idea promoting an automatic/NPC response or consequence does not promote an MMO-style of gameplay, quite the contrary. A nerf to suicide ganking has therefore far less gameplay value than buff to fighting back.

But carebears do invest energy in fighting back: they do so on the forums as it involves no risk in assets.

All jokes about "tears-fueled-ships" aside, they do show one thing: the will to fight back is definitely present only it is used the wrong way (out of game instead of in-game).
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2012-05-31 11:12:46 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
there one you forgot that no one trys to use.

U get ganked you have KILL RIGHTS on the S.O.B that gank you hunt him down and killem for crying out loud then he has a double loss.


They often either don't know about kill rights, or refuse to try. The ones that do at least have a go often end up losing another ship, but at least they're having a go at that point :)

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2012-05-31 11:23:10 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout.

Can you really say the penalties are too low?

yes. the penalties are too low.

Just example: 5x DPS Catalists killed 1 hulk (let's speak about properly tank-fitted hulk)
Gankers lost - (why not?) 50 mil ISK (splitted to 5 persons)
Gankee lost - 250-300mils.

See the difference? I see.

Now. Let's look from the other side:
- Ganker chooses place, time and target. He is initiator of ganking
- Gankee accepts ganker choise. Only option for you to evade ganking - stay docked.

From this point of view why should penalties be equal? Ganker HAS TO PAY for his fun. He has to accept consequences of his decision to attack. That's why penalties SHOULD be bigger and harsher than gets gankee.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2012-05-31 11:24:49 UTC
nat longshot wrote:
there one you forgot that no one trys to use.

U get ganked you have KILL RIGHTS on the S.O.B that gank you hunt him down and killem for crying out loud then he has a double loss.

yes for sure. because killing ganker's t1 frigate/destroyer can compensate loss of your freighter/exumer Roll

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-05-31 11:25:27 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Some people lie. Even when they're boasting.


Wheels within wheels, too perfect not to quote.
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
#74 - 2012-05-31 11:25:55 UTC
Think the too low come from the lack of repay feeling. In other thread someoen suggested a great Idea on my eyes. You can at any station forfeit your concord protection. When you have that protection forfeit and you are killed in high sec you get a kill right on anyone involved in the killmail that lasts for 1 week or 2 weeks.

Then comes the interesting part, make possible to sell those kill rights. I am sure there will be plenety of poeple interested on using it. Will not stop suicide ganking, but will make things feel more fair because the suicider wil have to pay attention a lot when moving his new shiny T3 from jita to low sec.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#75 - 2012-05-31 11:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lin-Young Borovskova
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


They are.

The SS penalty should be higher and farming SS back shouldn't be the joke it is but an extreme and tedious work to achieve opposed to how hard it is to gank someone, but CCP and common sense are two different things Lol

If you want to shoot whatever with no consequences you should go to null, thing is that you need some brains to go there and do stuff while high sec ganking is a no brains stuff and this is what real Eve is about.

Here's how to populate low/null sec, revert SS and concord presence in between actual SS systems/zones. Lol

brb
Frying Doom
#76 - 2012-05-31 11:37:35 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


They are.

The SS penalty should be higher and farming SS back shouldn't be the joke it is but an extreme and tedious work to achieve opposed to how hard it is to gank someone, but CCP and common sense are two different things Lol

If you want to shoot whatever with no consequences you should go to null, thing is that you need some brains to go there and do stuff while high sec ganking is a no brains stuff and this is what real Eve is about.

Here's how to populate low/null sec, revert SS and concord presence in between actual SS systems/zones. Lol

The penaties you recieve for repeated ganking or just ganking are the most balanced in the whole game.

Its just risk vs reward. Exhumer pilots want more reward so they go mine in there hulk, the hulk is worth ganking so up goes the pilots risk.

If you want a safer life ask for less reward mine in a covetor or a Battleship.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#77 - 2012-05-31 11:48:28 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


They are.

The SS penalty should be higher and farming SS back shouldn't be the joke it is but an extreme and tedious work to achieve opposed to how hard it is to gank someone, but CCP and common sense are two different things Lol

If you want to shoot whatever with no consequences you should go to null, thing is that you need some brains to go there and do stuff while high sec ganking is a no brains stuff and this is what real Eve is about.

Here's how to populate low/null sec, revert SS and concord presence in between actual SS systems/zones. Lol


Farming Sec Status up is an incredible slow grind and was recently nerfed.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2012-05-31 12:21:18 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Many posts are appearing of late asking if the penalty for suicide-ganking is too low. From the gankees point of view, it probably is. They lost a ship. I will now put to you the other side of the argument.
Suicide-gankers blow people up for many reasons. It may be for profit, in response to a player event or in many cases, they do it simply because it's fun[ny]. Now lets talk about penalties.

The gankee loses a ship & it's mods, plus whatever else resides in the cargohold.
The ganker loses a ship & it's mods, whatever resides in the cargohold, sec status, gains a 15 minute GCC timer, can be shot by anyone for the duration & receives no insurance payout. Can you really say the penalties are too low?


They are.

The SS penalty should be higher and farming SS back shouldn't be the joke it is but an extreme and tedious work to achieve opposed to how hard it is to gank someone, but CCP and common sense are two different things Lol

If you want to shoot whatever with no consequences you should go to null, thing is that you need some brains to go there and do stuff while high sec ganking is a no brains stuff and this is what real Eve is about.

Here's how to populate low/null sec, revert SS and concord presence in between actual SS systems/zones. Lol


First up; Common sense died a quick death shortly after the internet became cheap enough for just anyone to have.

I never suggested nor implied that suicide ganking should have no consequences, & I certainly wouldn't want it that way.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Keia Nomesteturj
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2012-05-31 12:30:05 UTC
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#80 - 2012-05-31 12:36:25 UTC
Keia Nomesteturj wrote:
The fact that suic ganking is so prevalent suggests that the penalty is too low. Continue to fix the loopholes and increase the penalty. At present, committing a space "felony" in hisec is equivalent to getting a parking ticket and ignoring it.


Does your Car get blown up by the Police when you ignore a parking ticket? If so, where do you live, I want to visit.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon