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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#141 - 2012-05-23 17:43:47 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
As I just said on twitter, this is nice and all, but shift-clicking still needs to die in a fire, ASAP. It is inefficient, compared to double-clicking. I can do one with a single hand, quickly. The other requires me to move my other hand away from whatever it was doing (cue bad jokes here) to find the shift key and hold it down.

Either allow us to determine whether to use shift-clicking or double-clicking as the "open separate container window" action, or change it back. And if you give us the option to choose, I suggest you slap some metrics-tracking into there - just to see how many people change it back. (As an aside, it is a damn good thing you removed the session change timer from changing ships. That particular change would have caused even -more- rage than is already present on the forums.)

Also, make the extra, useless-in-most-circumstances information optional. I don't want to see a wide chunk of the UI wasted with how much the ammo in my hold is worth. At all. Ever. It's useless information to me, it clutters the interface, so why must I be forced to have it wasting what little screen real estate I've got?


i wouldnt call it useless, but i agree there should be a button somewhere on the upper neocom kinda like the pin button, that will shrink down the bottom bar and the top bar to really minimize things to like 0 chrome perhaps even smaller than the old windows... so its just content shown that would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wicked And as always .... REMEMBER STATE OF THIS especially for the shortcut and wreck spawned windows....

Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#142 - 2012-05-23 17:46:00 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Kaphrah wrote:
Hm, I really don't like the new UI, is it really too much work to make it optional?

my biggest problem is looting containers after salvaging wrecks.
If there are 50 containers around my noctis, I'll open them and click on "Loot all". Sounds easy, but the UI window always jumps back to my cargo, and I have to click on another container again, this takes ages if you have a lot of containers around your ship.

Before this ......... Patch, I opened all containers and just hit the "Loot All" Button in every window, please bring this back


Will check this out and post an update.


This is actually a bug and it's being fixed :)


WICKED!

Now can you do 1 more thing for us regarding loot windows, can you add an exception that if its a wreck... and you click loot all... to close the window, not go to your cargo
Agrapena
Cloaked Goof
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2012-05-23 17:49:08 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


How, tell me, can you improve on dung?
Internet Lawyer Steve
Doomheim
#144 - 2012-05-23 17:50:04 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
Excellent list of improvements, especially the ability to rename modules. They are going to enable some workflows that will really make the power of the UI UI shine shine.

I will bring *really* expensive alcohol to Iceland if you promise to:

* Let us designate favorite containers, which get floated to the top of the sort order. In my WH corp, for example, in each POS corp members have designated CHA's they share. Being able to say "In POS A, this CHA is my favorite, and in POS B, this CHA is my favorite" would be a huge improvement even over being able to rename everything.

* I personally would like the option to have newly opened UI windows default to the full view with the object tree -- and inherit the width of the objects panel from the parent window. Yeah, I know, it's just one extra click to reveal the objects panel, but I'm lazy and hate clicks.

Twisted


We might be able to work something out :)

We're going to do more changes. The stuff in the devblog are the immediate ones but we're also working on longer term ones. Favorites is one thing that keeps popping up.


When can we expect the fixes or are you just going to make it somewhat playable then sweep it under the rug like most of the broken stuff that you release as 'finished"?

Internet Lawyer Steve and Associates,

Bringing Justice to New Eden, One post at a time...

yunafan2004
Nox Noctis Industrius
CAStabouts
#145 - 2012-05-23 17:50:33 UTC
the shift+clcik has helped my issues but still doesn't help my massive amount or containers in space after a mission. With the old system i could pile one up in the bottom right corner or ym screen and then double clcik the rest and they would all stack underneath the one in the conner. then spam the "loot all" and I'm done...but now everytime i finish one in this tree system it reverts back to my cargo instead or the next loot can in line?!

I'm equally annoyed with the tower stuff and i have a POS with a ton of mods attached or "death star" as i've seen some refer to them on here. Again the shift click has helped me avoid this pain in my ass system but again i have to scroll through a list of mods to find what I want and then i find myself opening two new windows for the same mod just to get into two different divisions. Not to mention the long load times while it loads everything at the tower into that tree.

It feels like I need to take 2-3 extra steps just to get things done. I really do like the idea of giving us the option to opt out of this system but sadly doubt it will happen. I guess gone are the days of me being able to log on a minute or two before i leave for work to change work in my labs I guess.

This system was supose to make thigns more simple and I'm guessign streamline but seriously whast more simple then having two mods next to each other and clicking open hangers on each and then the click and drag to move thigns around? i'm not sure it can get more simpler then that right?!

The one tihng i do like is the new status bar on everything you open. I like the new look and how clear and large it is.

I apologize to all for my terrible grammer and spelling!
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#146 - 2012-05-23 17:50:58 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Oxandrolone wrote:
Quote:
We’re going to allow renaming of all POS structures, this should let players navigate more easily in the tree view, instead of a large group of identical items.
\o/

does this mean only in the inventory window or mean we can rename SMA's and CHA's just like drugs labs etc?


rename..............EVERYTHING.


Looking at a Goon POS will become very very painful.

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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#147 - 2012-05-23 17:51:03 UTC
Selissa Shadoe wrote:
Great to see a reasonably fast and positive response from CCP. For all the bitching yesterday I feel encouraged by these statements.

To note on one point made in the dev blog:

- "When you use a shortcut to open a specific bay, it will open in “separated” mode, with the tree view compact so you can quickly get the view you want."

Assuming that the re-opened view will open where it was before, i.e. my 'cargo hold view' will be where I last opened it by itself, items, ships etc.

If those windows that are open also remember their position upon logout,login then I think there'll be no issues at all for me.


My only addition to this is that the "alt-C" (cargo hold) shortcut opened window needs to remember its size/position/settings based on the ship type which you were in when you opened it.

- Freighter? I probably have a large cargo hold window and seeing the # of items and value is useful to me.

- Interceptor? I use a tiny little window.

- Cap-boosted battleship? probably a mid-sized window so I can see how many cap charges and other goodies I have left

- Orca, in a mining fleet? Not only do I have the cargo hold open, but I also have the ore hold and one of the corp hangar windows open, ideally stacked in a tabbed method so I can drag-drop between those 3 locations quickly, while plucking ore out of jetcans
Soniver Rozaklis
Stampeding Beasts
#148 - 2012-05-23 17:53:34 UTC
I love this blog entry too. It's definitely going in right direction.

I would like to suggest one bigger thing that should be considered. As there are smart filters, there should also be something like "smart templates". What i mean is ability to make "template" for inventory window.

For example ship cargo. I want always have at certain position and certain size no matter what ship i am. Old system sort of allowed this and remembered position of cargo window for each ship. However it still had to be done manually everytime you had boarded new ship.

So one template could contain things like position, size, pinned status, chosen Icons/Details/List, visibility of price estimation (should be configurable anyway), active smart filters, show index tree and possibly even what columns are visible. User can anytime decide to save one window as named template and that can be later recalled for newly opened window to quickly set everything for it.

It could go even further in future and setup template for certain types of containers. For example one location and size of window for all opened wrecks with detailed list, only name, quantity and volume colums visible, enabled price estimation and maybe set some filters for valuable things if somebody is picky :)

What do you think about it ?
Max Gades
Phoibe Enterprises
#149 - 2012-05-23 17:53:53 UTC
Love how one can make a suggestion on functionality and don't even hear anything about your suggestion for going on to a 3rd page...
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#150 - 2012-05-23 17:54:44 UTC
Scaugh wrote:
Hans Tesla wrote:
n2thefray wrote:
Anyone else run into an issue when they're dragon dropping into the tree and you hover too long and it opens up that location?

I understand why it works that way but I would never want to change containers while I'm dropping stuff.

Verily, this annoys me to no end when I'm trying to dump loot & salvage into the appropriate areas of my corp hangar.

Also, semi-cross post: What's the formula for the estimated price value at the bottom of the UI. After testing, it seems somewhat... uneven. Some items are spot on, others are way over/under priced.



You dont even have to hover over it for a long time. Just tried to drag and drop and it immediatley opened up the destination container. I then had to go back through the UI tree to try to find which corporation folder and then which container the items were in.

Rinse and repeat the above 3 times unitl I finally opened up the cargo of my ship draged items to there and then opened up the destination container and drag items to there.

Faster and easier to move items my AR$E..

Sigh........


CCP, another story for you: When the mouse is hovered over an item on the inventory tree, the timer for switching the window is not started until the mouse button is released.

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Fenris Nihilus
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2012-05-23 17:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Fenris Nihilus
CCP Soundwave wrote:
There are two things we´d really like to change but don´t have a nailed down solution to just yet.

One is persisting windows that only work in certain places (you have a window that only works in the station and you want it to be open and in the same location the next time you dock for example).


I've got an idea you can consider. Why not make a new button on the top right of the window you have open that when toggled on it "makes persistent" the window. This can then be cached in the client the window orientation and status. Then every time you dock in the station the client checks the list of persistent windows and calls them up on screen automatically via encrypted script. This could also work for all stations if it shares the same type of window you wan't to open up. Would be a fairly small thing to cache.

"Open window(station_hangar) pos 1264x684 "
Delivery Boi
Doomheim
#152 - 2012-05-23 17:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Delivery Boi
How about, in the index pane, show a percentage of the m3 free/used for each container?
Zo'ha
Techno Miners
#153 - 2012-05-23 17:57:09 UTC
Like I have said before, you cant polish a turd but you can lacquer it.

Although naming pos mods is going to be nice and putting pos mods in to their own trees is better it still feels like managing a pos is going to be a massive pita. Take one of mine for example, 1 biochem reactor, 1 simple biochem reactor, 5 drug labs, a lab, 2 moon miners (lol) and 11 silos. Not to mention the guns etc.

It is still terribad and feels like a total step backwards from the previous ui.
Malice Redeemer
The Black Crow Bandits
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2012-05-23 17:57:52 UTC
Uther Aharalel wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not. I will however go fairly far in implementing feedback that improves this piece of UI though. Feedback continues to be welcome.


Ok, the message is received but it doesn't mean I like it ... I for one don't like this at all!

I think the inventory is the single most used thing in the game for me.
I have never been made so aware of just how much I use it as right now.
Inventory has to be simple, fast and easy to use, this new version is nothing like that at all.

The inventory may be just a small thing, but this is really not the same game anymore ... Sad very Sad ... it reminds me more of work.
Assets has always been good at giving you an overview, but not the inventory.
Put it in the assets tab, that is where it belongs, and give us the old inventory back.




I think anyone that played eve could have figured out this is a better replacement for the asset windows then all of our inventory across the board, while somehow leaving that window out. How come game of drones didn't?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#155 - 2012-05-23 17:58:41 UTC
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:
Dinta Zembo wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not.


Why? No offense but is it that hard? Just a little checkbox.. Straight


I suspect it's because the new system is more streamlined than the old one code-wise. A lot of CCP drive recently seems to have been to overhaul/rationalize their code - with the beneficial and forward-looking purpose of being more easily able to add and tweak stuff in the future.

But what they seem to have forgotten is that while that's a good idea, it's not a good idea to grossly alter the way lots of people do things in a functional sense. Tweaking a ship here and there, no problem - QQ is quite ignorable under those circumstances. Adapt and overcome.

But when you're talking about what is (as the Game of Drones devblog itself pointed out) one of the most-used-by-everybody systems in the game, such a ... cavalier ... attitude is unwise.

IOW, it might have been a good approach to look at what people were actually doing and to mimic that existing functionality with the newly-coded system out of the box, so that the transition was smoother for end users.

Still, it looks like CCP are taking the criticisms on board. But why didn't they take them on board when this stuff was on test?


From what I can tell they took quite a bit of it as it was on SiSi. If you watched Tippia's video regarding the problems the new systems has one of them was the fact that all windows were being reset each time he docked or undocked or jumped. As it is on TQ now I find that my cargo stays open as I jump and even if my separate ships hangar is closed when I redock it does at least open back into the same place :D

There was also the feedback thread on the SiSi forums there CCP Arrow posted a rather lengthy bit about how they really are listing up all the feedback from there. This is probably the resulting list more-so from SiSi that TQ (seeing as how the systems has only been up live on TQ for only a day)

I'd imagine that this stuff is only being mentioned now and not having been implemented yet (both absolutely in time and relative to this feature's release) is cause there is still likely a bit of "corporate-ism" within CCP to make sure projects get done within a specific timeline and in this case for the Inferno release yesterday. With that in mind they likely took whatever little things they could implement quickly as easily and put those tweaks out to TQ while drawing up plans to implement the bigger fixes. At the same time they also made sure they had saved off the SISI feedback and got out a fresh notebook out to write down the even greater feedback they'd get from it being on TQ.

There was also mention of the user testing thingy they wanted to get going. From what I can tell it's a fairly new process and hasn't quite got off the ground yet but I can see us taking benefit from it from subsequent Inferno releases and the expansion this winter :D

Personally I think the existence of this devblog should make all the naysayers shut up but they still keep whining! D:

What else can they possibly do?! And would all of you that want the old system back just tell them why so that they might be able to fix it into a way that you would accept? Just asking for the old system back isn't helping and no they aren't gonna let you have it. Besides, if you close off the tree view it feels EXACTLY the same. I understand the extra space being used up by the "estimated ISK value" thing but I wouldn't be surprised if they could make that expandable. And of course they are looking into the stuff about positions being saved correctly. I totally agree that the loot system now isn't exactly the most elegant thing atm but this blog should at least reassure that things will be fixed asap. Hell they already have Inferno 1.0.1 going out the door.

The Drake is a Lie

galrizian
Nordic Hawks
#156 - 2012-05-23 17:58:42 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
We've been busy taking in feedback about the Unified Inventory and figuring out what to tackle first, and how. CCP Soundwave has put together a blog on the subject. Please read the blog here, and make sure you give us your feedback right here in the thread.



yeah great ...........read it.... great but.......the problem is...

how do i put this?..................WE DONT NEED THE NEW INVENTORY...... we will still have to open up stuff that was already open before the patch ffs.............. why arnt you guys listening to us players...

seriously ppl are going to stop playing the game if you guys at CCP dont start listening to us... i know of 4 ppl how have canceld there sub already and me and my 3 accounts makes that 7....... so sort it out an get rid of **** we dont want or need.....or give us an option in the esc menu to turn stuff off when you add something.................
Rrama Ratamnim
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#157 - 2012-05-23 17:58:55 UTC
Kremnican wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Oxandrolone wrote:
Quote:
We’re going to allow renaming of all POS structures, this should let players navigate more easily in the tree view, instead of a large group of identical items.
\o/

does this mean only in the inventory window or mean we can rename SMA's and CHA's just like drugs labs etc?


rename..............EVERYTHING.


While rename everything is really something I like... I think what Silos and Reactors should have the type they're set up after the name. Something like "Silo (Tritanium)".

1. In order to keep the reactors and silos "organised" using the names, you'd have to rename the structure every time you change the content. While this is OK with single tower set up for a 4-5 days, it doesn't really work with 4 or more towers, where every day you're switching the reactions on at least one tower.

2. To keep the chaos to minimum, you will have to name the structures in a reasonable way. #1 .. #10 isn't different from Silo... Silo. So you'll in most cases use name that indicates whats in, like Trit, AG or Tech. And from the security point of view I think it's not good that everyone who warps to the POS can see that you're running two Platinum Technite reactions.




WORST F*CKING IDEA IN THE HISTORY OF POS IDEAS EVER CONCIEVED.

If they do this i'm so starting up a pos bashing corp to go start crashing peoples tech and neo moons without the need to scan LMFAO... warp on grid, look at name of the mods, ah tech, ya boys come on over this is the one we need to smash

Naming it yourself you can be smart about the naming conventions atleast and name it something your corp will know what it means but not joe shmoe in his cloaky
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#158 - 2012-05-23 17:59:57 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

My only addition to this is that the "alt-C" (cargo hold) shortcut opened window needs to remember its size/position/settings based on the ship type which you were in when you opened it.

- Freighter? I probably have a large cargo hold window and seeing the # of items and value is useful to me.

- Interceptor? I use a tiny little window.

- Cap-boosted battleship? probably a mid-sized window so I can see how many cap charges and other goodies I have left

- Orca, in a mining fleet? Not only do I have the cargo hold open, but I also have the ore hold and one of the corp hangar windows open, ideally stacked in a tabbed method so I can drag-drop between those 3 locations quickly, while plucking ore out of jetcans


Well, maybe with the orca you can just use the tree instead of tabs.

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Kile Kitmoore
#159 - 2012-05-23 18:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Kile Kitmoore
Nice start,

I did not read this entire thread so forgive me if someone has already said:

Calculating items worth should not be a default. It's a nice feature but please make it optional.

People need to be able to replicate what they had before, that is small cargo windows without clutter around the windows borders and the EVE client remembers how we want things. This probably means giving us some options or settings and give this new UI a heck of a lot more flexibility.

The treeview for ships, let me drag a ship off the treeview to make active when in hanger. Also, the treeview of ships would be nicer if there was an option to show fittings (under each ship you have Fitting which I can drop down and see the fittings. If you can do that then let me drag fittings off the treeview onto another ship or back into the hanger.

It's Unified? When I am in a station let me see EVERYTHING this includes stuff in station hanger, fittings on a ship etc. Someway to actually see everything in the hanger no matter where it's at, on a ship or in a station hanger.

Once this new Inventory system gets the kinks worked out you need to run not walk to redoing the Asset Manager, which honestly you should have started with before screwing with everything else. Please don't break existing functions with the Asset Manger when you do get to it.

Normally when CCP Soundwave speaks I usually dread it because he's about to screw with someones gameplay one way or another but today I want to thank him for not waiting a week to respond to the outcry over the new Inventory system.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#160 - 2012-05-23 18:01:39 UTC
CCP Guard wrote:
We've been busy taking in feedback about the Unified Inventory and figuring out what to tackle first, and how. CCP Soundwave has put together a blog on the subject. Please read the blog here, and make sure you give us your feedback right here in the thread.

You guys are the best. All concerns about the new UI addressed.

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