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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#761 - 2012-05-25 06:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
Yonis Kador wrote:


[...]
I spent the better part of a day on the feature page reading about each thing and what new content was being added. I'm a fan of EVE. But this UI is so central to everything, it's impossible to enjoy anything else. It sucks. It's implementation sucks, its buggy, laggy, one-window design sucks, and the fact that its being forced on us despite hundreds upon hundreds of complaints sucks. I'm not unsubbing - yet- but if I "am" driven away, there will be others.

Bon soir. (again)

Yonis Kador

Hello Yonis. I fully understand you. I also do not play the game yet. I am more in the forums than online in EVE. I currently play "SkillQueue online" till this problem is solved or my subscribtion runs out.
Concerning the lag of this new UI.. If you (and I mean CCP too) think about this issue.. it must be totally clear why there is a lag!

THIS new Ui has to load ALL possible and available windows; calculate the estimate price (why this crap? -.-) and show all this information at once within milliseconds; or in that case.. seconds.
THIS Ui is never ever designed to be lag free. It is impossible because the design is wrong. And no one at CCP will ever get this UI lag free as long as I am not able to split this "all in one" information into several small blocks (and here I mean windows). If the UI has only to load my ship- and station hangar it would work a lot smoother. But showing the drone bay; station hangar, ship hangar, all available containers consider the current adjusted filter AND calculate the price of all modules.. THAT can not work. NEVER!

Unfortunately I have no answers to my question. It would be nice if some of the Dev's or CCP's could answer soon.
Tolmar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#762 - 2012-05-25 06:42:18 UTC
please don't trickle in fixes, restore old one and if you feel you still want to have new one make it optional. It is really terrible for anyone that shifts and sorts their inventory frequently or uses any kind of POS services...
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#763 - 2012-05-25 06:48:54 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
I've been here for four years and only joined the forum yesterday

Yep... one thing you need to know about these forums is the fact, that here are certain amount of people who deliberately say something what is harmful towards the game or what they consider as "trolling". Then there are people who just want to start arguments and people who only collect tears and want others to feel bad.

so... do not ever take seriously the people who say something what you find to be totally unbelievable. At least don't reply to those as it is just the thing what they want you to do.

Eve forums are totally own extension to in game politics. If you know that your cause is justified - you will be heard.

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#764 - 2012-05-25 07:09:23 UTC
Jonuts wrote:

Quote:

They are not going back to the old UI. So suck it up and provide suggestions to make the new better for your uses.


Didn't we go over this before? Going back to the old UI is a very valid suggestion. The new UI is like removing the wheels off a car. "Put the wheels back on" is the obvious solution to fixing the problem. Why is this such a poor suggestion?


Don't bother arguing with Endeavour Starfleet.
He's as stubborn as Tippia but with far, far less brains.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#765 - 2012-05-25 07:21:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
I'll repeat this again so people can't miss it.

CCP doesn't care. They are going to outwait everyone on this. Unless you're really going to unsub, and I am seriously considering dropping 2 of my 3 subs, then you can't affect what they are doing.

You have to understand that organizationally, rolling back this change would be a huge amount of egg on the face for CCP. They aren't going to take that sort of responsibility. Notice, no one has apologized for launching a bug riddled and unoptimized system that neglected the user testing. No one is going to be accountable for this, and no one we're talking to is going to make a change.

So just give it up. They aren't going to turn things around.

Btw, where are the CSM through all of this? I thought they represented the players. Useless.


They deserve the egg on the face.
This crap was tagged as being crap since when it appeared on the test server.

By choosing to stubbornly go ahead they also chose to be eligible to abundant players feedback. The guy in charge for giving the OK to deploy this UI should get eggs on the face.

See, EvE had and still has a lot of ancient, "written over night" spaghetti code written by an handful of Coders with strong vision. That code happened to have some genius imbued in it.
Now they can produce high quality code but they lost the genius. That alone is egg on the face worthy. Because once you lose the visionaries and the geniuses in the corp, the company has just become "just another mediocre corp".
Gnast
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#766 - 2012-05-25 07:24:36 UTC
Considering how intregral part of the gamer expirience the UI is, its a potential make or break gamechanger.

At the moment its in the "breaker" part of town with regards to my personal gamestyle.

I completely understand that for some the new UI is very convinient and even helpful, but for others it completely
ruins it. I belong to the latter group.
Caneb
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#767 - 2012-05-25 07:29:15 UTC
You're all just mad because the new inventory made your bots stop working.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#768 - 2012-05-25 07:34:58 UTC
Caneb wrote:
You're all just mad because the new inventory made your bots stop working.


POS hangars management bots best bots.
quasarabyss
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#769 - 2012-05-25 07:41:17 UTC
"The other is some sort of visualization of your ship in the inventory. Whether it’s a thumbnail or something else isn’t sure, but we’re working to hammer these two down and get them in as well."

Could my active ship be visible in the ship hangar please? it kinda makes sense when you think about it, perhaps that's why it was there all those years.

Gee I wish I could fit an electric shock collar to CCP sometimes, i'd be leaning on that button right now. Idea

(Insert witticism here)

Cuchulin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#770 - 2012-05-25 07:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cuchulin
Just thought I chime in to state that the new inventory system is indeed extremly hard to use and cumbersome ...especially in comparison with the sleek and easy system we had before :(

Biggest issues for me:

- when in space I have my cargo window open to see how much cap boosters/ ammo is left, this window (even with tree minimized and such) takes now up more space which I dislike because I would like to see my ship and the ship it makes explode
-> please make the little volume bar and the isk ammount optional and consider making the frame of the whole thing thinner

- after successfull exploding an enemy ship I am using a loot tab in my overview to quickly open the wreck and cherrypick whatever was not fail of my opponents fitting, this is now broken as it opens the wreck view in my already open cargo window with tree minimzed and such, so that it is impossible to actualy loot anything if I dont want to use the "loot all" feature
-> if you do nothing else but this then please please please (did I mention please) have wrecks always open in a new separate window (in minimal mode without tree and whatnot) when accessed by any other means but the tree view

- shift clicking is a bad UI choice especially when in space and I have one hand at my mouse and one hand near the function keys to explode stuff and such... particularly in these situations I am apparently laging a third hand to do the shift thingy....to be fair though, I might use the third hand for something else even if I had it...

- I was nearly killed yesterday because I wanted to look into a wreck and my client locked up for about 5 secs, at the point when my client became responsive again I noticed a hostile ceptor burning towards me which I only escaped by luck (or fail of the ceptor pilot)
-> in space every second counts, any lag associated with opening a jetcan or wreck is totaly and utterly unacceptable, I suspect the lag is introduced because in addition to the content of the wreck the new inventory wants to show me all the other shiny wrecks possibly nearby ? Also it wants to calculate isk amount and show me the route to the nearest McDonalds ? If so..... stop that **** and make cargo/jetcan/wreck views totaly separate from the new system

- I dont see a way to distinguish between an actualy empty corp hanagar and one that I just dont have access to, since in both case "Nothing found" is stated....this is suboptimal at the least.... (and yes it is necessary to have non accessible corp hangars in your tree, because some people need to be able to drop stuff in such hangars even though they cant see what is in it and cant take stuff out again...)

- oh and fun fact at the end..... I actualy searched a ship in the new inventory system right after the patch on tuesday and couldnt for the love of god find it.....till I noticed I am sitting in it.... :P

Oh and btw....I do acknowledge, that the whole filter deal and approximate isk amount are pretty cool features...also a tree view for ships with multiple hangars (not drone bays though...) is pretty awesome... only applying the system to everything that was not docked on the count of -1 is what makes it so frustrating...

Cuchulin
Mar Drakar
LDK
#771 - 2012-05-25 07:50:06 UTC
You know why we never use drag drop in windows?

we use CTRL+C(X) and then CTRL+V

CCP MAKE THIS HAPPEN, give me "pick up items", "put items" jsut as I do with text, files ... if windows can decide that I want to paste text into notepad, and file into folder, geez make it so that I can "paste/move" items into current hangar.
Aziz Nardieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#772 - 2012-05-25 07:53:02 UTC
(Reposting this from the test server feedback thread)

I like what the new inventory is trying to do, but I do think it can be improved upon. Here's some suggestions:

1. Make it easier to navigate through the inventory. Make a hotkey for going backwards/forwards through the different windows. Example: I forgot to put drones in my boat! So I drag drones over, and open up the drone bay just to be sure. They're there. Great, now I want to go back to inventory. And then maybe I put the wrong drones in, so I can now hit the forward button to go back to swap the drones out.

Make another hotkey for "up one level." So if you're currently looking at a container, you'd go up to your main inventory. If you're looking at your drone bay, you'd go to your ship's cargo bay. Easy.

2. Let me scroll the left/right hand sides of the inventory window without having to focus them first. Currently, this only works if either the hangar is in focus or if nothing is in focus. (If, say, the market window is in focus, then I can't scroll anything).

3. Have a different set of filters for items/ships. I've found myself using the filters to go through my items (those are nice!), then switching to the ships window, only not seeing anything, because the ship doesn't match my item filter. Well of course it doesn't. So I propose either making two separate sets of filters (one for ships and one for items), or having the same set of filters, but remembering currently selected state for ships and for items (little messy, more clutter).

I hope to see these suggestions patched in soon.

Uther Aharalel
Doomheim
#773 - 2012-05-25 08:02:24 UTC
Mar Drakar wrote:
You know why we never use drag drop in windows?

we use CTRL+C(X) and then CTRL+V

CCP MAKE THIS HAPPEN, give me "pick up items", "put items" jsut as I do with text, files ... if windows can decide that I want to paste text into notepad, and file into folder, geez make it so that I can "paste/move" items into current hangar.


Urgh, I really don't want the UI to work like windows explorer... the win 7 version is just as buggered too!
A Total Commander version would be much better!

Nobody cares about what Goon's care about, they are the cheapest possible cask whine.

el Estilete
Green Peace Labs
#774 - 2012-05-25 08:02:34 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Hey Soundwave

Still can't open my inventory in less than 2 minutes in a WH POS. Makes reshipping in a battle impossible.

When are you guys going to fix that?


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.


Once upon a time there was an archery contest.

The first archer, wearing a long cape covering his face, lines up in position... He takes a deep breath and fires an arrow which finds the center of the target. Then he takes of his cape and screams: I AM...... ROBIN HOOD!!! The crowd cheers!

The second archer with a cape lines up in position. He fires his arrow which hits the center and cuts robin hood's arrow into two!!! He takes off his cape and screams: I AM...... WILLIAM TELL!!!!!! The crowd cheers!!

finally, a third man in cape lines up in position... He fires his arrow but it goes all wrong!!! It flies past the crowd and kills the king!!! Then the man takes off his cape and screams: I AM...... SORRY!!!
SoC Darkord
Silentium Mortalitas
#775 - 2012-05-25 08:26:57 UTC
Kasriel wrote:

CCP Soundwave wrote:
Maintaining two systems really isn't an option and I've never seen this promised anywhere. As I mentioned, we'll continue making changes and making fixes (like the looting reverting to the main hangar) though, so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.


first off, Soundwave the work you do talking to the community is excellent, i wouldn't dream of saying otherwise. the same goes to all the other CCP staff who do likewise, when the **** hits the fan your here listening to everybody vent, trying to help out, that's great, i just wish other staff would at least spend half an hour to an hour a day responding to questions on THEIR work (*cough* CCP Arrow and CCP Optimal *cough*) i know they must be busy but one hour to show that CCP is actually committed to keeping good communication with the player base - especially after incarna - would go much further than you or any other employee saying you don't know you didn't work on it.

now i'm sure this is going to get buried but here goes here are my personal concerns, starting with the really important general one.

first and most important, the process that's happened here is almost identical to incarna. CCP put something on the test server that wasn't ready for deployment, were told about issues over and over again in the feedback thread and then promptly ignored them all and made it mandatory. then to add insult to injury somebody at CCP decided to make a cut and paste support response for, which didn't answer the question asked, outright lies and then points out two things you can do and says "this'll fix it!" when it obviously doesn't.

the lie? "With it, you can more easily manage all of your inventory from one screen" you forgot to add unless you want to move it, then you'll have to scroll like there's no tomorrow if you have a decent number of assets or ships. And lets not mention the extra 5-20 seconds delay i'm experiencing every single time i dock or warp to a POS on a high end machine with a 100mb connection

the two things? why shift click and click the condense arrow of course! then it'll give you the same experience as before! whoever came up with this little gem obviously hasn't tried it, i challenge any one of you to hide the filter and tree system, and get the same functionality. go on. i'll wait.

This is poor communication pure and simple. as is the fact that you and everybody else at CCP seems to be trying their damnedest to ignore the great steaming pile of excrement in the room which is that the overwhelming majority of people on the forums? DO NOT WANT this system bugs or no bugs, they don't like it, it doesn't give the same functionality. most of the rational ones will agree some people will. and THAT is part of the problem, this new UI? isn't inherently good or bad, it's entirely situational and depends on what you do and how you do it for my CEO? it's good, for me? it's nigh useless, and instead of those people getting any sort of reasonable response or attempt at compromise we get what essentially boils down to "tough it's here to stay" which smacks of incarna yet again.

you say two systems aren't really an option? why. give us clear concise reasons. most of EVEs players are not stupid. most of us are professionals or at least adults who will listen to a rational argument. instead of just saying "we can't do it" tell us why not. also last time i checked it was plenty possible for - again - the whole incarna mess which again you said was mandatory and wouldn't be changed.

i really hope i'm wrong but it seems like this expansion is a huge step backwards not only as far as the inventory is concerned but also where CCPs direction is concerned.

to quote Hellmar from his devblog

CCP Hellmar wrote:
But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, “It’s not what you say, it’s what you do,” that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward.


please take 5 minutes and take the time to read that dev blog again and remind yourself of the mistakes and promises you made then.

Here i'll link it for you.

for me? i'm not mad, i'm genuinely sad about this backslide. and as it stands right now i'm not renewing my subs. that simple. no you can't have my stuff. kinda unfortunate that i've been playing for 5 years now, and the month before i hit 100mill SP on my main account you kill the fun i get from the game. i build things, i use my inventory ALL the time, it's by far my most used feature, and you've destroyed it. what was 20minutes work per character is now nearly double that because of all the scrolling, and then second takes because it wasn't scrolling, and then corrections because i dropped materials into the wrong hanger by mistake.

the least it would take to turn this around in my eyes? make the new inventory UI in station only, preferably an option to disable it completely.

the best result as far as i'm concerned? an option to disable it - as like i said some people like it AND an apology for yet again ignoring your players.

and on a side note how exactly do you expect to get more people to test things on SiSi when you make a habit of ignoring the feedback you get from them? really.


Quoting for +1

Incarna all over again. Maybe some of the people behind the new UI will get made redundant this time...

We dont want fixes to the new UI, we dont want it at all.

Offering Blackops and Covert services

 Covert bridging / Null sec camp clearing / Null sec Disruption / Anti capital / Covert fleet support

SCIACARL MARTE
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#776 - 2012-05-25 08:31:18 UTC
A few days ago with the release of Inferno I was happy with the new Inventory panel but now I'm trying to load my orca for an expedition I have definitely changed my mind, is virtually impossible without having to open the window of the two corporate hangars. I do not think we will get used to this.
Spanking Monkeys
ZC Omega
#777 - 2012-05-25 08:35:43 UTC
'You need multiple windows' so were gonna make your life hell by making you use one window for everything.

please revert this inventory, put it back on sisi and fix the hell out of it before you roll it back on to TQ.

no matter how you patch it , its state is broken and the idea behind it is wrong. make it the asset window and its good.
Don Shadow
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#778 - 2012-05-25 08:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Don Shadow
CCP Guard wrote:
We've been busy taking in feedback about the Unified Inventory and figuring out what to tackle first, and how.


Hello there CCP Guard: i want to be of help to you and your team and give you a constructive idea:

BRING BACK THE OLD INVENTORY SYSTEM!!!

hope this help
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis
#779 - 2012-05-25 08:50:38 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Hey guys

We should have another round of fixes/changes coming this Tuesday (Monday is a public holiday in Iceland). I'll post that list in the thread Tuesday morning.

It's awesome to see you guys giving so much feedback in this thread.

I'd like to throw my needle in the haystack and ask for something that I noticed today that really bothered me about the inventory system:

You've got this great clean inventory window with just a row of folders on the left; adding a container you've opened to the list is easy as pie and doesn't get in the way of anything.

Please add jettison containers that you yourself launch to the tree when they are created! It is a huge pain in the butt to open a wreck, jettison things from your cargo to make room, scoop the loot you want, then have to hunt around in space with the mouse trying to click on the container you just dropped. Before this would have been a huge annoyance to have a window pop up every time you jettisoned a container, but NOW you have this fantastic opportunity to do something good that the users will really notice, and I want to see it happen. They don't have to persist in the tree after you warp away, but if you stay on grid with them they should absolutely be in the list from the moment you drop them so you can use them right away.

Bonus points if you mark or color the containers as your own in the tree.

Lobbying for your right to delete your signature

cenourinha
Doomheim
#780 - 2012-05-25 08:52:46 UTC
CCP please listen to your customers, we are the ones who actually play the game, we are the ones that pay to play.

Please be perfectly clear about this:


We do NOT want this new inventory

Please rollback to the old UI, for the sake of our subscriptions, dont persist on this incarna path once more ccp , do not go there ... i beg of you!!!!!!!