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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

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Author
Balder Verdandi
Wormhole Sterilization Crew
#621 - 2012-05-24 18:59:30 UTC
On page 19, I have a list of items that are broken or unusable due to this patch.

Instead of addressing this list of issues that seriously affect normal game play, we get "Name your POS day".



This is Sham-wow-tastic.

Komen
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2012-05-24 18:59:44 UTC
I live in a POS in wormhole space and boy, did the new inventory make me angry. Grrrr. I've calmed down enough to talk about it more reasonably.

Here are the main issues:

- Any time one person swaps ships at a Ship Maintenance Array, everyone else who has the inventory window open experiences lag. Significant, client-becomes-unresponsive lag, sometimes causing complete lockup of the client which forces the player to force-close and relaunch that client/character.

- Putting cargo containers within an industrial used to take a few second to position and open all containers. Last night it took me two minutes of waiting on lag to get 17 cans open, in order to deposit a load of robotics to ship out to empire for sale. This right here is a loss of functionality. The lag within a POS with all those other cargos around is highly problematic and leads to frustration of the 'This didn't USED to take this long' sort. So in that regard the new inventory is worse than the old way.

- Every time we leave and then re-enter the POS, we once more experience a wait to access hangars we've already opened. It used to be that there was a delay the first time a character accessed a particular hangar, but after that instance the hangar in question would be accessed within 1-2 seconds. With the new system, we're being forced to load every damn cargo inventory in the POS before we can access the one specific area we want.

Suggested fixes:

A filter for which inventories to load/not load. For instance, I do not want to see the inventory of every single POS gun, every time I enter the POS. Not asking for these, I'm sure, would reduce the access lag for other hangars. In fact, I could also stop loading the POS fuel bay and a bunch of other structures which are anchored but not online. Filtering which inventories to ask for would,. I feel, pretty much solve the big lag issue in the POS.

Jajas Helper
#623 - 2012-05-24 19:01:15 UTC
- rollback the inventory system
- integrate the new inventory into the asset window



Inferno do _stuff _with _stuff _to imitate the _stuff _you could do faster with the old stuff

-stuff-

Rammix
TheMurk
#624 - 2012-05-24 19:02:41 UTC
Kasriel wrote:

even when that feedback tells them things are obviously broken?

like chat windows vanishing? players not logging off? windows not being persistent? etc?

please tell me how those are matters of opinions and not straight up bugs.

Opinions are subjective. Statistics are much less subjective. So I'm arguing about priorities for picking up data.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

N3LLY
Reverberation Inc
#625 - 2012-05-24 19:02:47 UTC
Jajas Helper wrote:
- rollback the inventory system
- integrate the new inventory into the asset window

best sugestion ive seen in a long whileLol

[b]UI IS CRAP GET RID AS SOON AS POSSIBLE P.S. [/b]CAN I GET A REFUND FOR LOST GAME TIME ?

Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#626 - 2012-05-24 19:03:33 UTC
I know there a lot of Drama surrounding the Unified inventory, I am not posting to inflame this. I feel I should say what im dissapointed with in this situation is that the bugs and design flaws on the singularity test server that have been carried directly over to the Tranquility server again. For what ever reason; planing, quality control, something has not worked out and we have another rushed out, half finnished project that has removed a lot of functionality. This is exactly what I wanted to see gone after Incarna.

Thank you for Inferno and im looking forward to more progress. Adrian.
Marisol Shimaya
Doomheim
#627 - 2012-05-24 19:04:10 UTC
This is what CCP doing to us right now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKJRPPA6NBQ&feature=related

Fight For Our Rights

Rammix
TheMurk
#628 - 2012-05-24 19:06:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Rammix
Jonuts wrote:
Almost no one actually defends the new UI, they're only there to insult and demean the people who don't like it. When it's "supporters" rarely bring an argument to the table in support of it, then once again, you know you done gone ****** up.

Maybe. But I defend, partially. I like filters, the idea to use one window for everything. And I'm patiently waiting for what I want to see which isn't present yet.
One more thing, those who like something write about it rarely. But those who dislike - write often and more energetically. Forums tend to be mostly used for complaints and flame (with varying degrees of heat Smile), sad but true.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

Ericdon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#629 - 2012-05-24 19:13:17 UTC
somehow i think we have no chance of seeing something like it was before, even tho 98% players is pissed off at new system, or finds it alot more complicated and useless.
Fareldon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#630 - 2012-05-24 19:13:41 UTC
Gentlemen,
I hate your unified inventory. Granted the previous one was not perfect but I never wasted a lot of playing time fighting windows that closed when I wanted them open and windows that could not be kept open so I could move items from one to the other. If it isn't broke don't mess with it. Even a lowly applications programmer like myself learned that early on. The quickest way to lose a client is too give them something they did not want just because you think it is an improvement.

Your inventory improvement is like the newer window buttons on cars that go all the way up or all the way down everytime you push them for more than a secound when all you wanted was to lower the window a couple inches and catch a breath of air.

Make the old inventory available again please ! and soon or lose my two accounts !
Respectfully yours, Fareldon
Last Idaho
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#631 - 2012-05-24 19:13:44 UTC
Mongo Edwards wrote:
Last Idaho wrote:
Mongo Edwards wrote:

P.S. It seems like some things are definitely faster with the new UI and others are a bit slower. When the fix the time delay in opening containers it will make things much easier.


A BIT slower? You ever tried moving stuff from one container to another? Or from your cargohold to a container, which happens to be fully loaded with hundreds of different items? I had to wait 10 minutes to move just one can into another. And that wasn't the only can to be moved... All this used to be done in less than 2 seconds with the old system and another 2 seconds to stack them all. Now I don't bother stacking anymore.


Did you read my whole post or just the P.S? What you are describing is almost EXACTLY what I'm doing (I'm not moving one can into another).

The speed comment was meant to describe the actual act of moving the items from one location to another (amount of time spent manipulating the interface) not the waiting for the screen to load (which a dev said is being fixed). There is a big difference between the design of an interface and how the implementation of the design performs. My comment was directed at the former not the latter.


Yes, I read it, all of it, and yes, my opinion is not exactly concurring what you meant. But you made a conclusion in your PS, so I responded to it. I was referring to the part "a bit slower". So I quoted only the PS part. It is not just a bit slower. It is far worse than just a bit.
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#632 - 2012-05-24 19:16:52 UTC
RanCho79 wrote:
Кто сказал что древовидный вид инвентаря лучше старого? Вы там википедии начитались чтоли? Или это такой исландский юмор?
Вместо того чтоб снимать какие то ролики как ваш сотрудник лазает по каким то пушкам - лучше бы заганали его работать.

Вы, ЦЦП, полностью облажались, и даже не торопитесь исправлять то, во что вас сейчас тыкают носом ваши игроки.



Халтура, попустительство и откровенное наплевательство на мнение подписчиков.

Это вам над входом надо повесить, ваш новый девиз, бесплатно.

P.S. Переводите как хотите, вы и так не отрабатываете месячную подписку.


I don't speak Russian but this makes more sense to me than people coming here to tell us to get used to it rather than trying to be constructive.

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot

Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#633 - 2012-05-24 19:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Callidus Dux
I had a look at your dev blog.

Shift-clicking works fine, but like with all shortcuts, you need to know it exists. We’re going to allow inventories to be “dragged out” of the main UI. It’s basically the same functionality as shift clicking, but instead of being hidden behind a hotkey, you can simply drag and drop it out with your mouse.

Does this mean that I am able to drag out EVERY entry out of this unified UI in order to have my hundreds of own adjustable windows back WITHOUT any shift+click crap? I want icons in my neocom to open my SHIP hangar to see all the available ships as icons again; I want a double click to open my cargo hold of my current active ship. I want seperate Windows for every station container-which opens per double click at the corresponding icon within the other seperate own window of my station hangar. Do you work on that so that I am able to ABSOLUTE rebuild the former state of my arrangement for all possible and available (own) windows?

You have to understand that I, and many many others, would never accept the shift+click "cripple solution" and will never accept the tree view when we have to drag things from 'A' to 'B'. We all want windows. Seperate windows, adjustable in size and position- responsing on doubleclicks or cklicks at icons. NO hotkeys or shortcuts!

And as it is. Who is that a$$hole who has 100 windows open all the time? When I work I have just a few (2 till maximum 5) windows. The picture from Arrows blog to bring his crap to the customer is false and absolute far away from any reality!

AND PLEASE PLEASE WITH SUGAR ON TOP: Stop advertising your buddy / friend programm. In this state of development of INFERNO it just seems to be very inappropriate and ridiculous to show this mess a friend. Really.
Brutal Red
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#634 - 2012-05-24 19:19:49 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Well thanks for trying Soundwave. This will take some serious fixing, good luck.

I am trying to NOT jump on the unsubbing bandwagon.....I really am.


Yeah sorry guys, we won't be able to do everything at once, but hopefully we can trickle some fixes out. We had some go out today, some will go out next Tuesday and hopefully we can continue until it's in a better state. Anyway, that's it for now.


What about :

- rollback the inventory system
- deploy inventory system on test server
- fix inventory system

???

The current state of Eve is annoying (I'm being polite here) .
I didn't even login today .

I'm already looking at other things to do in my regular evening gametime Cry

Unless CCP actually wants less players ...
Cyn Osuralt
Pangalactic Investment Group
#635 - 2012-05-24 19:21:40 UTC
Fareldon wrote:
Gentlemen,
I hate your unified inventory. Granted the previous one was not perfect but I never wasted a lot of playing time fighting windows that closed when I wanted them open and windows that could not be kept open so I could move items from one to the other. If it isn't broke don't mess with it. Even a lowly applications programmer like myself learned that early on. The quickest way to lose a client is too give them something they did not want just because you think it is an improvement.

Your inventory improvement is like the newer window buttons on cars that go all the way up or all the way down everytime you push them for more than a secound when all you wanted was to lower the window a couple inches and catch a breath of air.

Make the old inventory available again please ! and soon or lose my two accounts !
Respectfully yours, Fareldon


I'm seriously looking at closing my 8 accounts and my friend has 4 accounts that he's looking at shutting off. We are miners with POS and can't deal with the problems with the UI. It's worse than having to deal with Hulkageddon.
Arritha
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#636 - 2012-05-24 19:26:10 UTC
Seriously. Please just listen to your customers.

We do not want this new inventory system because it is inefficient. Is it pretty? Yes. Is it a pain in the ass? Yes.

Only one of these makes people ragequit.

Apparently you didn't learn the last time you did this about listening to customers...
Talia Araceli
Nuts and Vindictive
#637 - 2012-05-24 19:27:37 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Hahahaha. No. Statistics have zero meaning — they're just data. What matters is how those are interpreted and what goes into that interpretation, and that can be a very subjective affair. Moreover, not everything can be measured through statistics. Statistics is a useful analytical tool; it is not an answer, and it has strict limitations as a tool as well.

How to interpret is important, sure. But the more respondents, the more steady results. I mean, one person suggests some crucial change, another suggests the opposite. Both suggestions can be extreme. But sorted and classified (e.g. similar thoughts grouped together and counted) suggestions of hundreds/thousands of people will smooth it out and return much more useful info. Devs will make more decent decision relying on statistical info rather than players' personal opinions. Except maybe new feature ideas.

Quote:
Statistical value of data from SiSi is much lower than that from Tranquility.
Not really, no, because we're not talking about something that has any statistically measurable — we're looking at a fairly classic case of qualitative analysis, and as it happens the outcome has been the same on TQ as it was on Sisi.

I don't believe that 300 can correctly represent 30'000. Sisi is not a mini-TQ in its social aspect, categories of players differ in percentage, almost for sure.[/quote]



Look around you. Open your eyes. The sky is blue and you are arguing its our opinion. Your posts **** me off man. I don't know what your mental problem is, but seek help, please.
Rammix
TheMurk
#638 - 2012-05-24 19:28:12 UTC
By the way, who is interested, count all people who have said on this forums they dislike newUI. Then, take it from the number of all english-speaking players. Result will represent those who like newUI. LoL.
Ingore that, just a joke. Big smile

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

Spanking Monkeys
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#639 - 2012-05-24 19:29:49 UTC
Brutal Red wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Well thanks for trying Soundwave. This will take some serious fixing, good luck.

I am trying to NOT jump on the unsubbing bandwagon.....I really am.


Yeah sorry guys, we won't be able to do everything at once, but hopefully we can trickle some fixes out. We had some go out today, some will go out next Tuesday and hopefully we can continue until it's in a better state. Anyway, that's it for now.


What about :

- rollback the inventory system
- deploy inventory system on test server
- fix inventory system

???

The current state of Eve is annoying (I'm being polite here) .
I didn't even login today .

I'm already looking at other things to do in my regular evening gametime Cry

Unless CCP actually wants less players ...



this woudl be the fastest way to solve this mess wouldnt it?
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#640 - 2012-05-24 19:31:51 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Tippia wrote:

Then maybe you shouldn't argue about statistics, because 300 out of 30,000 is a very large sample…

For such small number as 30k and without respondents specially filtered out - it's not so representative. For example, it is like going to a small town and asking only old ladies' opinions, instead of picking people from all categories. That's what I'm talking about. Sisi's audience is not little copy of TQ's.
Maybe if my English were better I would spend less words to explain what I mean. Need to read moar. Roll


IRRELEVANT (the number to argue) !

The Bugs WERE Found and Posted by many over a 6 week time period.

It was done. Even if it were TWO people that found out all the crap, it's still information. You need 30,000 more people typing the same issues ?

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900