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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Ponder Yonder
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc.
Illusion of Solitude
#41 - 2012-05-23 16:10:05 UTC
Thanks, CCP. This sounds like progress. I appreciate the the quick turnaround on this.

Next up:

- Fix Persistence
- Fix Lag



- Ponder

Selissa Shadoe
#42 - 2012-05-23 16:10:19 UTC
Great to see a reasonably fast and positive response from CCP. For all the bitching yesterday I feel encouraged by these statements.

To note on one point made in the dev blog:

- "When you use a shortcut to open a specific bay, it will open in “separated” mode, with the tree view compact so you can quickly get the view you want."

Assuming that the re-opened view will open where it was before, i.e. my 'cargo hold view' will be where I last opened it by itself, items, ships etc.

If those windows that are open also remember their position upon logout,login then I think there'll be no issues at all for me.

"Whether suicide ganking or doing anything in eve, there are exorbitant amounts of people in the game and on the forums that are complete jerks." - Spikeflach

Al Khalid
Spacelane Excavations.
#43 - 2012-05-23 16:10:23 UTC
Yeah, looting feels a bit more cumbersome as if it was not enough already.

It would need some love and a shortcut other than double clicking on a wreck.

Maybe if we could open up a cargo from distance but not be able to access its content until we're close. The new inventory seems to allow that since container are left open but not accessible in the UI
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#44 - 2012-05-23 16:10:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
To illustrate…
Kaphrah wrote:
Hm, I really don't like the new UI, is it really too much work to make it optional?

my biggest problem is looting containers after salvaging wrecks.
If there are 50 containers around my noctis, I'll open them and click on "Loot all". Sounds easy, but the UI window always jumps back to my cargo, and I have to click on another container again, this takes ages if you have a lot of containers around your ship.

Before this ......... Patch, I opened all containers and just hit the "Loot All" Button in every window, please bring this back
…this is the kind of problem that I think could be solved by being able to filter the inventory windows according to the type of container that is listed in them.

Say that I set all my normal windows to not show wrecks. When I come across one and try to open it, the UI will say “hey, I can't open this inventory anywhere” and pop up a new window, where the wreck is selected. I can then (as now) spam that “loot all” button, with the next available wreck constantly being selected until I run out of wrecks. I can then set this window to only show wrecks, so when I've looted them all, the window realises that, “hey, I have no more things to show” and closes itself.


…and of course, while I was writing that… Oops
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Regarding this. We're talking about everything from having a favorites column for stuff, specific settings and even a search function there. Most of it is just in a stage where we're looking at it, but we're definitely looking into options like you're describing and other improvements.
Very nice. It's a tricky nut to crack, I'd imagine, but this kind of customisation of the tree view (and what appears in general in any inventory window) would definitely be a new killer feature for the… ehrm… ”more demanding” among us. P
Ampoliros
Aperture Harmonics
#45 - 2012-05-23 16:10:47 UTC
very happy to see this blog, it all looks very good and/or reasonable

quick question - rather than just adding some differentiation in the inventory between what we can and can't see in POSs, is it possible to increase the 'view' distance on structure contents so we can just see more/everything? I was initially and very secretly hopeful that it would let me view the ammunition status on all of the untold number of guns I have, and while I was thwarted it would be pretty awesome.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#46 - 2012-05-23 16:10:53 UTC
As I just said on twitter, this is nice and all, but shift-clicking still needs to die in a fire, ASAP. It is inefficient, compared to double-clicking. I can do one with a single hand, quickly. The other requires me to move my other hand away from whatever it was doing (cue bad jokes here) to find the shift key and hold it down.

Either allow us to determine whether to use shift-clicking or double-clicking as the "open separate container window" action, or change it back. And if you give us the option to choose, I suggest you slap some metrics-tracking into there - just to see how many people change it back. (As an aside, it is a damn good thing you removed the session change timer from changing ships. That particular change would have caused even -more- rage than is already present on the forums.)

Also, make the extra, useless-in-most-circumstances information optional. I don't want to see a wide chunk of the UI wasted with how much the ammo in my hold is worth. At all. Ever. It's useless information to me, it clutters the interface, so why must I be forced to have it wasting what little screen real estate I've got?

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#47 - 2012-05-23 16:11:05 UTC
Any plans on fixing the dreadful performance the Inventory system introduced?

e.g. Looting wrecks now takes about 5 seconds to open and freezes my entire screen (can't click anything else) for a few seconds. Looting wrecks now takes longer per wreck than before, not less. I've heard that some folks have stopped looting (they still salvage) as the time/ISK isn't worth it now with the inventory lag.

e.g. Opening any inventory in a POS (Cargo Hold, Corporate Hangar Array, etc.) gives me the spinning (I like that there's feedback that it's loading now ;)) window for 5-10 seconds before finally opening, this is much slower than the old inventory system (though it does look nicer and is more functional...once it loads).
Selissa Shadoe
#48 - 2012-05-23 16:11:52 UTC
Uther Aharalel wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


Ditto. The inventory could be nice on the assets, but not in my hangar and cargoholds...


"Unified inventory in MY cargohold? It's more likely than you think" .. Big smile

"Whether suicide ganking or doing anything in eve, there are exorbitant amounts of people in the game and on the forums that are complete jerks." - Spikeflach

Diana Valenti
Disposable Spies
Honorable Third Party
#49 - 2012-05-23 16:12:04 UTC
Why dont just allow us to choose old inventory in options?
Ayeson
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#50 - 2012-05-23 16:13:00 UTC
Spanking Monkeys
ZC Omega
Goonswarm Federation
#51 - 2012-05-23 16:13:30 UTC
Quote:
Shift-clicking works fine, but like with all shortcuts, you need to know it exists. We’re going to allow inventories to be “dragged out” of the main UI. It’s basically the same functionality as shift clicking, but instead of being hidden behind a hotkey, you can simply drag and drop it out with your mouse


will it stay out on the side panel(neocom) until we move it again, or will we have to do this every time we log in, dock etc?

Quote:
When you use a shortcut to open a specific bay, it will open in “separated” mode, with the tree view compact so you can quickly get the view you want.


so your putting all teh right click functions back? and no more clcik shift on them?

Quote:
One is persisting windows that only work in certain places (you have a window that only works in the station and you want it to be open and in the same location the next time you dock for example).


old system managed that just fine, why is this a new function you have only jsut considered?

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#52 - 2012-05-23 16:14:45 UTC
Will be liking the POS changes. Thanks.

Also, for future changes, here is a "story" for you:

When the user docks, all inventory windows are restored to the state (size, screen position, and category displayed) they had when the user last was in station. If this is not possible (category not available at a new location) the window will temporary default to "Item hangar".

When the user undocks, all inventory windows are restored to the state (size, screen position, and category displayed) they had when the user last was in space. If this is not possible (category not available with a new ship) the window will temporary default to "cargo hold".

Much better would be if these remembered window states were specific to each station and ship. So, for example, docking at a station where there is a corp hangar the game would remember that at that station 2 inventory windows were open last time I was there: Item hangar and corp hangar. At my mission station the game remembers I want my item hangar, my ammo can and my ship cargo bay open, and so on.

(You may wonder why I would want both a ship cargo bay and an ammo can open. Its so I can see how much of what I need to move and be able to do the move. I see I need 1000 antimatter; drag it over. 500 Thorium; drag it over... etc.)

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Anvil44
Independent Traders and Builders
#53 - 2012-05-23 16:14:56 UTC
I'm a little sad that the fixes have to be done after deployment when I am pretty sure I saw comments regarding this when it was on Sisi. I am glad you are making the changes as stated as those are what jumped out at me in the first 5 minutes of use (that was about all I logged in for).

Persistence for how certain types of containers are opened (such as loot containers) is very important, I think Ninja salvagers don't want the hassle of a merged container all the time, plus the speed of opening the containers is very important. I'm not a ninja salvager but in WH space, the same principle can apply. You can't mess around with containers when you want to spend the minimal amount of time exposed and motionless.

I think the overall scheme has lots of potential, it was just deployed in a 'testing state' and not a 'ready for general consumption' state. This was the real error here. Take a page from some other game developers and deploy when it is ready NOT when your deadline appears, ready or not. The player base will not lose out if you don't deploy something new on the set schedule but they will lose out if you deploy something that isn't ready yet.

Keep up the hard work.

I may not like you or your point of view but you have a right to voice it.

Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
#54 - 2012-05-23 16:15:07 UTC
Any plans to look at load times? Opening up my ship cargo takes far too long and I have a decent system. I assume this is part of the indexing for the filters? If so, maybe only turn that on when the filter options aren't hidden?

Thanks for looking into improvements.

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Selissa Shadoe
#55 - 2012-05-23 16:15:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Selissa Shadoe
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Also, make the extra, useless-in-most-circumstances information optional. I don't want to see a wide chunk of the UI wasted with how much the ammo in my hold is worth. At all. Ever. It's useless information to me, it clutters the interface, so why must I be forced to have it wasting what little screen real estate I've got?


I was really hoping to see an option box on the top left of the inventory for 'options/settings' where you could toggle things like 'show flashy moving bar for fill/capacity level' and 'estimation of value'.

Count of items should be in the title bar too, so you don't need the big thick bottom border on the window if you turn off the valuation of goods.

"Whether suicide ganking or doing anything in eve, there are exorbitant amounts of people in the game and on the forums that are complete jerks." - Spikeflach

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#56 - 2012-05-23 16:15:36 UTC
Kaphrah wrote:
Hm, I really don't like the new UI, is it really too much work to make it optional?

my biggest problem is looting containers after salvaging wrecks.
If there are 50 containers around my noctis, I'll open them and click on "Loot all". Sounds easy, but the UI window always jumps back to my cargo, and I have to click on another container again, this takes ages if you have a lot of containers around your ship.

Before this ......... Patch, I opened all containers and just hit the "Loot All" Button in every window, please bring this back


Will check this out and post an update.
PryMary
nul-li-fy
#57 - 2012-05-23 16:17:14 UTC  |  Edited by: PryMary
I have a suggestion:

For salvaging purposes, would it not be a good idea to have all wrecks / can's that belong to the pilot shown in the UI (Universal Inventory) instead of having to individually D.Click each wreck for it to show in the UI??? Surely the system can just place those directly into the UI using the corp / alliance (Blue wrecks included) tags??

This would only happen for those wrecks that appear on the overview not the entire system your in!

Then have a loot all (if within a certain distance) button that takes everything from the can and dumps it into the cargo hold... Simple
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-05-23 16:18:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian
Dinta Zembo wrote:
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Cyriacus Antonius wrote:
Will there ever be a way to revert to the old inventory system? I'm not sold on the new one at all, regardless of changes.


No, probably not.


Why? No offense but is it that hard? Just a little checkbox.. Straight


I suspect it's because the new system is more streamlined than the old one code-wise. A lot of CCP drive recently seems to have been to overhaul/rationalize their code - with the beneficial and forward-looking purpose of being more easily able to add and tweak stuff in the future.

But what they seem to have forgotten is that while that's a good idea, it's not a good idea to grossly alter the way lots of people do things in a functional sense. Tweaking a ship here and there, no problem - QQ is quite ignorable under those circumstances. Adapt and overcome.

But when you're talking about what is (as the Game of Drones devblog itself pointed out) one of the most-used-by-everybody systems in the game, such a ... cavalier ... attitude is unwise.

IOW, it might have been a good approach to look at what people were actually doing and to mimic that existing functionality with the newly-coded system out of the box, so that the transition was smoother for end users.

Still, it looks like CCP are taking the criticisms on board. But why didn't they take them on board when this stuff was on test?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#59 - 2012-05-23 16:19:30 UTC
Good stuff, I'm happy to see the quick response.

Those last two issues that you don't have nailed down yet are my particular priority. I always have my ships hangar in a certain spot and my hangar inventory in another. I like to see them there when I dock. I don't like to see them turn into my ship's cargo hold when I undock.

Thanks!

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2012-05-23 16:22:48 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
Kaphrah wrote:
Hm, I really don't like the new UI, is it really too much work to make it optional?

my biggest problem is looting containers after salvaging wrecks.
If there are 50 containers around my noctis, I'll open them and click on "Loot all". Sounds easy, but the UI window always jumps back to my cargo, and I have to click on another container again, this takes ages if you have a lot of containers around your ship.

Before this ......... Patch, I opened all containers and just hit the "Loot All" Button in every window, please bring this back


Will check this out and post an update.


This is actually a bug and it's being fixed :)