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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
Jagoff Haverford
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#541 - 2012-05-24 16:17:35 UTC
CCP Soundwave wrote:
so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.
This one really surprised me. In the "Escalation to Inferno" patch last month, CCP added in the wonderful ability to select rows of data and paste them into spreadsheets like Excel. It was pretty cool, and I used it for all kinds of things, including market price histories and the amounts of minerals and PI materials that were in my hangars.

The new inventory system won't let me copy data from it any longer. I have a container filled with PI products. It doesn't matter if I open the container in the main inventory window, or if I shift-click it to open it in a separate window. I can't copy data out of it, and I therefore can no longer paste it into Excel. Which is to say, the cool thing that CCP put in place just last month has already been un-done by this latest change. I'm back to typing my inventory values into spreadsheets that I pull up on a separate computer.

Note that pasting still works from the wallet and from the market windows. It just no longer works from the inventory.

One other problem, that I've seen other people mention is simply the speed. One of my corp mates got red-boxed by another player last night. I was in station, but didn't have the inventory open and I was sitting in an industrial ship. I went to jump into a combat ship, but this station is one where we have a corp hangar. It took forever for the inventory to open so that I could reship into something useful.

There really needs to be a "ships only" button somewhere on the Neocom to allow for quick changes from one ship to another.
Jebediah MacAhab Dallocort
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#542 - 2012-05-24 16:23:20 UTC
May O'Neez wrote:
Quote:
they can go back, find the code they nuked, and revert it


except if the old code relies on old stuff elsewhere which was also removed, which requires also rollback and ending removal of more code than expected and narrowing the inferno release at the end to ... new missiles.

Yeah, except you're supposed to code the UI so it resides in its own little layer.


  1. UI
  2. Clientside background tasks (main loop, scripting, caching, etc)
  3. Packet handling crap


This way, if your designers get a random bug up their butts and decide to rip apart the UI and redo it, like CCP did, you don't have to screw with anything else. In addition, if the server hiccups and eats a bunch of packets, your UI doesn't have to know; The backend packet handling crap juggles all that crap. All the UI knows is that Loot All calls containerContext.LootAll(), and it needs to hook into the containerContext.ContainerDestroyed context so it can close the window. It doesn't need to construct a packet, then send it, then set up a loop and wait for another packet.

The point is, the UI shouldn't affect anything else they added in this update unless they are absolutely ******* stupid and never had a programming class in their lives.

How to Improve Quality Assurance at CCP

Professional Programmer, DBA, Game Developer and Systems Analyst

ashtraynaut
Viperfleet Inc.
Official Winners Of Takeshi's Castle
#543 - 2012-05-24 16:23:32 UTC
i'm used to the old inventory system. i would have loved to have that back but improved.

the new inventory system is.....impractical and by the looks of it unfinished and imho something that should be worked out further on SiSi.

why?

- it takes time to open the whole inventory. yes, it shows me the hangars that i haven't acces to aswell. there really should be the option implemented that i can only get the hangars in my inventory that i have acces to when i hang around in the pos.

we currently have like 8 ship arrays hanging. it takes more time which is annoying when i need to grab a ship fast or when i want that one module to fit on my ship...

and i don't see anything wrong with an option to be able to open just a can, wreck or array in one small window without having all the other stuff.
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group
#544 - 2012-05-24 16:24:24 UTC
old system

open corp tab ,open ship hold ,drag drop done

new system

open inventory, open corp hangar expansion arrow , open corp hangar again cause it doesn't stay open the first time ,scroll to appropriate tabs
open in new window or else when you click on that tab you are going to lose your previous window and you will have to reopen it now you can drag and drop as you could before

the only thing the new system has going for it is the filters which to be honest you could have put on the old system if you really wanted

of course they were really sort of already there Because on top of each inventory tab was a search bar to type in what you were looking for if it was there it would only show that item

you took something easy and made it a convoluted mess of a cluster frack

PS your customs office tab is still broken and closes after transfer from the planet to the customs office forcing you to reopen it again before you can get the products it only does this intermittently and just enough to be annoying
Dennie Fleetfoot
DUST University
#545 - 2012-05-24 16:25:40 UTC
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.


A minute ago ??

It's RIGHT THERE on the Sisi Forums for WEEKS. Jebus.................


There you go, conclusive proof that they paid no attention to all the feedback we gave on Sisi. Many were telling you about problem weeks ago!

CEO Dust University

CPM 1&2 Member

www.twitter.com/DennieFleetfoot

Wilma Lawson
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#546 - 2012-05-24 16:26:06 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
One other problem, that I've seen other people mention is simply the speed.

Speed is definitely a problem, especially when in space and you could be ganked at any moment!

Jagoff Haverford wrote:
There really needs to be a "ships only" button somewhere on the Neocom to allow for quick changes from one ship to another.

As a temporary solution, there is an option to merge the ship and station windows. This will then provide a ship tab where the agent tab is located. I've done this and it helps tremendously. I'm at work, so I don't have Eve and therefore, I don't recall exactly where it is in the options, but it reads something like "merge ship and station...".

Good luck!
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
#547 - 2012-05-24 16:26:30 UTC
And why does the cargo hold/inventory have to open when i loot a can or wreck? It didnt before.

I only want it open if im using it f, ie mining or using caps.
LTC Vuvovich
The Orion Nexus
#548 - 2012-05-24 16:30:19 UTC
Jagoff Haverford wrote:
[quote=CCP Soundwave]so if you're missing any specific piece of functionality we'll definitely look at the viability of implementing it.
This one really surprised me. In the "Escalation to Inferno" patch last month, CCP added in the wonderful ability to select rows of data and paste them into spreadsheets like Excel. It was pretty cool, and I used it for all kinds of things, including market price histories and the amounts of minerals and PI materials that were in my hangars.

The new inventory system won't let me copy data from it any longer. I have a container filled with PI products. It doesn't matter if I open the container in the main inventory window, or if I shift-click it to open it in a separate window. I can't copy data out of it, and I therefore can no longer paste it into Excel. Which is to say, the cool thing that CCP put in place just last month has already been un-done by this latest change. I'm back to typing my inventory values into spreadsheets that I pull up on a separate computer.

Note that pasting still works from the wallet and from the market windows. It just no longer works from the inventory.

One other problem, that I've seen other people mention is simply the speed. One of my corp mates got red-boxed by another player last night. I was in station, but didn't have the inventory open and I was sitting in an industrial ship. I went to jump into a combat ship, but this station is one where we have a corp hangar. It took forever for the inventory to open so that I could reship into something useful.

There really needs to be a "ships only" button somewhere on the Neocom to allow for quick changes from one ship to another.[/quote



Your idea has merit mate. Could someone plz remind me...why CCP added that scalable NeoCom thingy to our UI's?

How would it work being able to place the entire Inventory System into a NeoCom for the right side of the screen, or drag & drop it wherever you like. Add and delete only those inventory items a player needs on an INDIVIDUAL basis?

Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#549 - 2012-05-24 16:36:00 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Hey Soundwave

Still can't open my inventory in less than 2 minutes in a WH POS. Makes reshipping in a battle impossible.

When are you guys going to fix that?


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.


Hello CCP Optimal.

TYVM for posting!!! Big smile Reassuring to know that Devs are continuing to monitor this thread.

+3 for the fix, still -10 for moving this system from Test Server. Sad

My 0.02 ISK on the 'improved' system:
- The fatally flawed premise seems to be: All items or objects or ships, in all locations, are of equal importance in all circumstances.

Pilots access specific things, in specific locations, to perform specific actions governed by current circumstances. Please allow those who find this system to be an impediment to Opt Out.
Rammix
TheMurk
#550 - 2012-05-24 16:36:31 UTC
Even now you CAN open two windows to compare their contents. They may tend to synchronize what they view, but I think this issue will be solved in some way.
Tippia, on some things I can accept your thoughts, but some others are total nonsence.
Unified inventory does not mean the only window and actually it supports multiple windows, it is not mono-windowed. For a new feature being clumsy is normal.

Finished state of oldUI which makes you open many windows at one time just CAN NOT be more effective than finished state of newUI which saves you from multiplying entities. So give it time and credit, let devs get statistically significant feedback, analyze it and finish their work with UI. Yelling, whining and insisting on returning old ui back is just .. strange, or even childish.

Thinking that such huge update can come from SiSi finished - is very naive. Compare average online of SiSi, 200-300 people, and that of TQ, above 30'000. For bugtracking and getting adequate feedback Tranquility suits much more than Singularity. Real testing goes only on the "real" server, sorry for tautology.

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Covert cyno in highsec: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=296129&find=unread

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#551 - 2012-05-24 16:41:11 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Ericdon wrote:
Oh cut the bullshit please, troll moar :P it sucks, everyone thinks that, but ofcourse there will be 1 person that wants to discuss its priority above previous system, previous system was almost perfect, new system is like 5% perfect, it sucks.

Just try to manage pos, or make a fast refit in station, its all 5 times more time consuming than it was with old system


I'm not trolling. The dozen people in this thread that can't adapt are the problem, not the inventory system

How the frak am I supposed to adapt to 2 minute wait times to load my ship hangar at a POS?

Please stop posting, you're not helping people with legitimate gameplay issues caused by this rubbish change.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#552 - 2012-05-24 16:42:41 UTC
Ad'Hakim Tahous wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Hey Soundwave

Still can't open my inventory in less than 2 minutes in a WH POS. Makes reshipping in a battle impossible.

When are you guys going to fix that?


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.


Hello CCP Optimal.

TYVM for posting!!! Big smile Reassuring to know that Devs are continuing to monitor this thread.

+3 for the fix, still -10 for moving this system from Test Server. Sad

My 0.02 ISK on the 'improved' system:
- The fatally flawed premise seems to be: All items or objects or ships, in all locations, are of equal importance in all circumstances.

Pilots access specific things, in specific locations, to perform specific actions governed by current circumstances. Please allow those who find this system to be an impediment to Opt Out.


Even I'm not really sure which Team you are batting for here.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#553 - 2012-05-24 16:43:31 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:
I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.

Optimal, you're on my good guy list.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#554 - 2012-05-24 16:45:08 UTC
Rammix wrote:

Thinking that such huge update can come from SiSi finished - is very naive. Compare average online of SiSi, 200-300 people, and that of TQ, above 30'000. For bugtracking and getting adequate feedback Tranquility suits much more than Singularity. Real testing goes only on the "real" server, sorry for tautology.



The problems were outlined quite clearly across 25 pages and several WEEKS over there. TWO people even are adequate to achieve these testing purposes so your excuses and apologies here are invalid.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#555 - 2012-05-24 16:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:
Fabulousli Obvious wrote:
CCP Optimal wrote:


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.


A minute ago ??

It's RIGHT THERE on the Sisi Forums for WEEKS. Jebus.................


There you go, conclusive proof that they paid no attention to all the feedback we gave on Sisi. Many were telling you about problem weeks ago!

This is why I don't test.

1. I don't get paid for it, I pay to play this game.

2. They don't pay attention anyway, so whats the point.

Frankly, I can't see why people go to fanfest for this "talk to a dev in a bar" nonsense. Like the only time you can get these guys attention is when they are stoned out of their gourd. Masters of the (Eve) universe and all that.

Probably have better luck helping Hilmar groom his beard.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#556 - 2012-05-24 16:50:39 UTC
Thanks for the continued support, hope to see windows remembering states, and neocom buttons HIGH on that list ccp.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg

VLAD VIRONS
X-SENSE Security
#557 - 2012-05-24 16:51:43 UTC  |  Edited by: VLAD VIRONS
Minimize "My Filters" works till the window is closed, would be nice if its remember that option next time u open Inventory.

o7
Ad'Hakim Tahous
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#558 - 2012-05-24 16:52:21 UTC
[quote=Fabulousli Obvious

Edited for length by Ad'H

Even I'm not really sure which Team you are batting for here.[/quote]

Still pushing for the Opt Out.

Recall the scene from that awful movie 300? Just after the first engagement, Spartans killing off the Persian wounded, & the King is going forward to meet w/ Xerxes. Asks his Captain, "There's no reason we can't be civil about this, is there?"

Lol
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#559 - 2012-05-24 16:53:16 UTC
Rammix wrote:
Tippia, on some things I can accept your thoughts, but some others are total nonsence.
Unified inventory does not mean the only window and actually it supports multiple windows, it is not mono-windowed. For a new feature being clumsy is normal.
Well, it's important to be clear about this: yes, it is not mono-windowed — you can indeed have many windows open — but it doesn't have proper multi-window support.

By this I mean that any window other than the main window is given priority over all other ones. There is no way to direct what other windows will show and what will open where unless you go through the tree view. If you use any other method of opening an inventory, those other windows will be ignored and the main window will be altered. Effectively, the system only really recognises that main window, and the child-windows you spawn must be managed manually.

Quote:
Finished state of oldUI which makes you open many windows at one time just CAN NOT be more effective than finished state of newUI which saves you from multiplying entities.
But that's just it: for many use cases, multiple windows is by far more effective than a single window, especially once those other windows start to spawn automatically depending on context. The new system is still essentially a single-window design and it has none of that automation, so it can quite easily be less efficient than the old UI. Just cutting the number of windows doesn't in and of itself yield any gain in efficiency whatsoever.

Whether or not the new UI will ever be more efficient will depend heavily on whether or not they're able to bring that multi-window functionality (which goes far beyond simply having two windows — they have to behave and interact properly as well) back, and on whether or not they can cut down on all the redundant work that the UI has to do because it assumes it has to handle everything in every window, rather than be selective and only do the work we as users are asking it to do.

Quote:
Thinking that such huge update can come from SiSi finished - is very naive.
But that's not what people are saying either. What we're saying is that they should actually make use of the massive amounts of feedback they got from sisi before going live. Would it cover all cases? No, like you say, the more people who are banging on the system, the better you'll see which bits fall off, but what they've done here is to completely ignore feedback (which, btw, remains essentially unchanged since the sisi version, so they could have gotten the same direction for future iteration just from that — the TQ release wasn't needed).
ScabRunner
Mercurialis Inc.
The Bastion
#560 - 2012-05-24 16:56:29 UTC
Roll back the whole stupid thing. Take it back to the sisi playground until you fix all the inventory FUNCTIONALLITY to what the players were use to doing, before this last inventory abomination patch.

Put the ship hangar button back on the neocom
Put the items hangar button back on the neocom
If I use Alt-N for ship hangar, I want the damn window to pop up where I WANT IT.
If I use Alt-G for items hanger, I want the damn window to pop up where I WANT IT.
If I use ctrl-D for drone bay, I want the damn window to pop up where I WANT IT.
If I double-click on a container, I want the damn window to pop up where I WANT IT.

All, please add to this list.
etc...

I mean, really? Seriously? You can't do that? Or, you don't want to because of other plans?

MUCH TOUGH LOVE TO YOU CCP

Scab

p.s. don't you dare delete this one, like you did my last post.