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New dev blog: Unified Inventory Changes

First post First post First post
Author
LTC Vuvovich
The Orion Nexus
#521 - 2012-05-24 15:51:56 UTC
Desmont McCallock wrote:
@CCP Soundwave From my experience (as developer of EVEMon) I will say that in general people hate changes that acquire from them to do more than one thing. The "Unified Inventory" is a great idea of unifying all items under one window. It's a bit complicated at starters but when you get the general feeling of 'where is what' then you start appreciating the 'lesser popup windows' thing. Bottom line, it will take people some time to get used to "the new way".


====================================================================================================

I believe I should beg to differ with you on your point sir. Your comment do seem to imply... players of the game are overtly lazy. I believe this is very much to the contrary. What I believe MOST players require from application and/or game developers; is that the whole dadgum lot of you try utilizing the K.I.S.S Method (Keep It Simple Stupid); when developing or implementing new ideas or ways of doing things. Complicate the matters all you want... to your heart's content... ON THE BACK-END !!! But on THIS side of the monitor's screen... all we require as player's is an application that is 'fullly-featured' WITHOUT all the confusion and clutter. Why can't all this just be plain & simple...? There nothing wrong with complexity so long as it does not spill out into the program's overall usabilty. Try to think of it like this... Our little game is like this really HUGE oil tanker gone terriblly BUST and is now creating one very big oil slick, contaminating all the little fishies in the sea. I mean REALL
stoxxine
OLVI industries
Inter Malleum et Incudem
#522 - 2012-05-24 15:53:29 UTC
Tippia wrote:

No, it's not a great idea to unify all items under one window. In fact, it's an appalling idea, because it means you lose the ease of use, flexibility, and efficiency that comes from having multiple windows; of having specific view settings for specific inventories; of having window sizes and locations that are suited for some inventories but not for others. It's particularly appalling for something that tries to style itself as a kind of file manager, since every modern file manager is moving away from the horrible inefficient single-view layout that was modern back in, oh, the 1980s or so.


+1 exactly.

I thought it was the whole point of modern graphical user interfaces (one of which is dubbed "windows") was the idea of having different views available simultaneously.

what they never got right was that the windows (ALL OF THEM) should reopen automatically on reboots. like they were. which is why some people never reboot..

i feel like i'm flogging a dead horse..

Disclaimer: The above was probably written drunk or by a friend on my pc or a hacker. No warranty for any misinformation provided.

Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#523 - 2012-05-24 15:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Chokichi Ozuwara
Hey Soundwave

Still can't open my inventory in less than 2 minutes in a WH POS. Makes reshipping in a battle impossible.

When are you guys going to fix that?

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.

Ericdon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#524 - 2012-05-24 15:57:58 UTC
Ok, new inventory system looks cool, but only that, it made everything MORE complicated than it was before! new features like Filters/ estimated price are awesome, but the whole idea to stock all container/hangar windows into one is a big fail!!!!!
Even after you try to rearange, get them separated, to what you need, it doesnt work, it gets reseted, or after u dock up with just small SHIP cargo opened minimizet to min size, you are unable to acces any other inv windows, you have to use your ship hangar small sized window in corner of your screen, expand it, and then acces ship hangar, item hangar in station.!!!

JUST MAKE IT A CHOICE! make it default so that newbs use it ( becouse thats ur point i guess... to make it look cool, cos i dont think ANYONE INVOLVED IN THIS INVENTORY SYSTEM EVER PLAYED EVE!!!) And make it at least alittle similar as it was before, for rest of players!!!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#525 - 2012-05-24 15:58:57 UTC
stoxxine wrote:
what they never got right was that the windows (ALL OF THEM) should reopen automatically on reboots. like they were. which is why some people never reboot..
Nah, not all of them. OS X Lion does exactly that (and lets you do the same on a per-app level).

Granted, the finder is still meh, since it's only one directory per window, but PathFinder solves that quite neatly (although not nearly as neatly as TotalCommander on the Windows side).
Callic Veratar
#526 - 2012-05-24 16:05:03 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Old system:
1. Drag ammo and drop into ship inventory.
Done!

You see, I didn't have to open the ship inventory or hangar, because they already opened automatically in the right position showing the right thing. They also stuck around during the entire process so I could monitor both of them at once

New system:
1. Navigate to ammo suppy.
2. Drag ammo to… no wait, how much ammo did I need again?
3. Navigate to ship inventory and check… oh, 1365 rounds, I have to remember that.
4. Navigate to ammo supply.
5. Drag ammo to ship.
6. Enter number of rounds needed.
Done!

Granted, steps 2 and 4 can be replaced by hovering over the ship cargo hold and spring-load so you see the current contents, but doing so means you have to repeat the entire process from step 1 for every ammo type you need. I can emulate the old system (somewhat) by opening a new window, which means I don't have to do as many repeat steps if I want to move more than one item type, but that is in and of itself an extra step that shouldn't be needed to begin with.

So no, the new way is, by far, slower.
Quote:
You can even choose to do things in the older and less efficient way if you want to.
No, you can only choose to make a temporary setup that works like the old more efficient way, but doing so is inefficient by default since it needlessly requires additional steps to set it up. The reason it's less efficient is because you have to use the new, inherently inefficient UI to try to replicate the old system (which can't really be done because the functionality has been lost).


God help me for responding to your nonsense, but your old inventory system was a kludgy mess. I watched your videos and the set up you had was excessive and unnecessary for all but the most anal players.

Want to know how I change my ammo now?

1) Select my primary ammo filter (It only contains the half dozen types of ammo I use)
2) Drag the quantity I need to my active ship

Your step number 1 and 4 from your new system and the navigation step you forgot from the old system (or one you "avoided" by using a number of cans that couldn't be searched using the assets window) and really, the most labour intensive step is gone.

The old system was a poor excuse for inventory management. Now that we have the beginnings of a very powerful and useful tool, you should be excited, not whining about your Stockholm Syndrome attachment to the old crap.
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
#527 - 2012-05-24 16:06:36 UTC
Ericdon wrote:
Ok, new inventory system looks cool, but only that, it made everything MORE complicated than it was before! new features like Filters/ estimated price are awesome, but the whole idea to stock all container/hangar windows into one is a big fail!!!!!
Even after you try to rearange, get them separated, to what you need, it doesnt work, it gets reseted, or after u dock up with just small SHIP cargo opened minimizet to min size, you are unable to acces any other inv windows, you have to use your ship hangar small sized window in corner of your screen, expand it, and then acces ship hangar, item hangar in station.!!!

JUST MAKE IT A CHOICE! make it default so that newbs use it ( becouse thats ur point i guess... to make it look cool, cos i dont think ANYONE INVOLVED IN THIS INVENTORY SYSTEM EVER PLAYED EVE!!!) And make it at least alittle similar as it was before, for rest of players!!!


The worse part about it is takes too damm long to open anything, i manage a large amount of items and everytime i try to open a container i get two spinning wheels while it adds everything to the inventory. the annoying thing is i only want to open or drop something in a can or container, or quickly swap ship.

The assets button is for the inventory system not individual items in use ie hangers ,containers,cans, or wrecks.
Talia Araceli
Nuts and Vindictive
#528 - 2012-05-24 16:07:38 UTC
stoxxine wrote:
Tippia wrote:

No, it's not a great idea to unify all items under one window. In fact, it's an appalling idea, because it means you lose the ease of use, flexibility, and efficiency that comes from having multiple windows; of having specific view settings for specific inventories; of having window sizes and locations that are suited for some inventories but not for others. It's particularly appalling for something that tries to style itself as a kind of file manager, since every modern file manager is moving away from the horrible inefficient single-view layout that was modern back in, oh, the 1980s or so.


+1 exactly.

I thought it was the whole point of modern graphical user interfaces (one of which is dubbed "windows") was the idea of having different views available simultaneously.

what they never got right was that the windows (ALL OF THEM) should reopen automatically on reboots. like they were. which is why some people never reboot..

i feel like i'm flogging a dead horse..



Hibernation is a great feature for this. you can completely cut the power to your computer and restore your session with all open programs and windows later... CCP, where is my eve hibernation (aka remember my windows in stations and space)?
Ericdon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#529 - 2012-05-24 16:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ericdon
Callic Veratar wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Old system:
1. Drag ammo and drop into ship inventory.
Done!

You see, I didn't have to open the ship inventory or hangar, because they already opened automatically in the right position showing the right thing. They also stuck around during the entire process so I could monitor both of them at once

New system:
1. Navigate to ammo suppy.
2. Drag ammo to… no wait, how much ammo did I need again?
3. Navigate to ship inventory and check… oh, 1365 rounds, I have to remember that.
4. Navigate to ammo supply.
5. Drag ammo to ship.
6. Enter number of rounds needed.
Done!

Granted, steps 2 and 4 can be replaced by hovering over the ship cargo hold and spring-load so you see the current contents, but doing so means you have to repeat the entire process from step 1 for every ammo type you need. I can emulate the old system (somewhat) by opening a new window, which means I don't have to do as many repeat steps if I want to move more than one item type, but that is in and of itself an extra step that shouldn't be needed to begin with.

So no, the new way is, by far, slower.
Quote:
You can even choose to do things in the older and less efficient way if you want to.
No, you can only choose to make a temporary setup that works like the old more efficient way, but doing so is inefficient by default since it needlessly requires additional steps to set it up. The reason it's less efficient is because you have to use the new, inherently inefficient UI to try to replicate the old system (which can't really be done because the functionality has been lost).


God help me for responding to your nonsense, but your old inventory system was a kludgy mess. I watched your videos and the set up you had was excessive and unnecessary for all but the most anal players.

Want to know how I change my ammo now?

1) Select my primary ammo filter (It only contains the half dozen types of ammo I use)
2) Drag the quantity I need to my active ship

Your step number 1 and 4 from your new system and the navigation step you forgot from the old system (or one you "avoided" by using a number of cans that couldn't be searched using the assets window) and really, the most labour intensive step is gone.

The old system was a poor excuse for inventory management. Now that we have the beginnings of a very powerful and useful tool, you should be excited, not whining about your Stockholm Syndrome attachment to the old crap.



Oh cut the bullshit please, troll moar :P it sucks, everyone thinks that, but ofcourse there will be 1 person that wants to discuss its priority above previous system, previous system was almost perfect, new system is like 5% perfect, it sucks.

Just try to manage pos, or make a fast refit in station, its all 5 times more time consuming than it was with old system
Capsuleer Newton
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#530 - 2012-05-24 16:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Capsuleer Newton
Arrow in some ways, the Unified Inventory System is good, BUT, i don't think we need that in salvaging and looting nor, we need that while mining, or even on camping/ambushing freighters and industrial.

Arrow its very good to be incorporated into the assets tab, but not with containers and holds.

Cry do hope you devs consider this

Arrow anything good used in ways its not supposed to will still be bad.
Ericdon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#531 - 2012-05-24 16:11:46 UTC
MAKE IT A CHOICE GOD DAMN IT! Let people use old system, or new! and you will see trough use statistics witch one is better. DAMN!
Callic Veratar
#532 - 2012-05-24 16:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Callic Veratar
Ericdon wrote:
Oh cut the bullshit please, troll moar :P it sucks, everyone thinks that, but ofcourse there will be 1 person that wants to discuss its priority above previous system, previous system was almost perfect, new system is like 5% perfect, it sucks.

Just try to manage pos, or make a fast refit in station, its all 5 times more time consuming than it was with old system


I'm not trolling. The dozen people in this thread that can't adapt are the problem, not the inventory system. The previous system was workable, in the same way you can get around town on a bike. Now, someone's given you a free car, and you're complaining that you don't like how the pedals are shaped.

Edit: I acknowledge that the window state between docking and undocking is different and doesn't always work. Those are bugs that the devs have said they've fixed. Based on the patches we've had this week, it seems as though you won't have to wait too long for those to be fixed as well.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#533 - 2012-05-24 16:14:10 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Now, someone's given you a free car, and you're complaining that you don't like how the pedals are shaped.


Free cars are almost universally Lemons.

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children
TOHA Conglomerate
#534 - 2012-05-24 16:14:40 UTC
Ericdon wrote:
MAKE IT A CHOICE GOD DAMN IT! Let people use old system, or new! and you will see trough use statistics witch one is better. DAMN!


^^ this ^^ I'm afraid...

Gathering behavioural data works for every other industry...

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

CCP Optimal
C C P
C C P Alliance
#535 - 2012-05-24 16:15:16 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
Hey Soundwave

Still can't open my inventory in less than 2 minutes in a WH POS. Makes reshipping in a battle impossible.

When are you guys going to fix that?


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.
Ericdon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#536 - 2012-05-24 16:15:22 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Ericdon wrote:
Oh cut the bullshit please, troll moar :P it sucks, everyone thinks that, but ofcourse there will be 1 person that wants to discuss its priority above previous system, previous system was almost perfect, new system is like 5% perfect, it sucks.

Just try to manage pos, or make a fast refit in station, its all 5 times more time consuming than it was with old system


I'm not trolling. The dozen people in this thread that can't adapt are the problem, not the inventory system. The previous system was workable, in the same way you can get around town on a bike. Now, someone's given you a free car, and you're complaining that you don't like how the pedals are shaped.

Edit: I acknowledge that the window state between docking and undocking is different and doesn't always work. Those are bugs that the devs have said they've fixed. Based on the patches we've had this week, it seems as though you won't have to wait too long for those to be fixed as well.



Its like completelly not that dude :] too bad you cant see difference.
Marisol Shimaya
Doomheim
#537 - 2012-05-24 16:15:30 UTC
Etharion Calthon wrote:
I see my post being especially critical of your customer service was deleted. Not only am I angry, now I'm being censored.

THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT, CCP.?

GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER.


Quote:
TRUTH HURTS
yes it dos. So CCP get real to see what we have been saying to you

Give us back our freedom and give us back our inventory list back now......

Fight For Our Rights

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#538 - 2012-05-24 16:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Callic Veratar wrote:
God help me for responding to your nonsense, but your old inventory system was a kludgy mess.
How is it nonsensical that one step is fewer than six steps?
How is four windows (of which only two are used in most case) a “kludgy mess”? By what I've heard from the players who keep thinking that this single window is superior to the “hundreds of windows” often mentioned, I can't help to think that the kludgy mess was theirs, not mine.

Quote:
I watched your videos and the set up you had was excessive and unnecessary for all but the most anal players.
In what way? Most of it was the default setup for the game. The only thing I really did was to separate the corp hangar and the ship hangars. The rest was working with the stacking that was set by default.

Quote:
Want to know how I change my ammo now?

1) Select my primary ammo filter (It only contains the half dozen types of ammo I use)
2) Drag the quantity I need to my active ship
So still less efficient than the old way, especially since you have to spring-load the cargo hold each time to figure out how much ammo is needed, and since, as a result of this, you have to keep navigating back to the ammo storage each time as well.

Quote:
Your step number 1 and 4 from your new system and the navigation step you forgot from the old system (or one you "avoided" by using a number of cans that couldn't be searched using the assets window) and really, the most labour intensive step is gone.
What navigation step? The stuff was already immediately available — no navigation needed. That's the whole point: the inventories automatically loaded themselves and you didn't have to navigate anything to get them. Occasionally, you needed to click a sort button or use a filter, but for something as simple as an ammo change, nothing of the sort was needed. Now, navigation is mandatory, and it's a good thing that the filters made it in because they are near-mandatory too (which, btw, adds new extra steps).

Quote:
Now that we have the beginnings of a very powerful and useful tool, you should be excited
I am. Now they just need to build an item management system on top of it. They shouldn't have released it before they had done that.
Fabulousli Obvious
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#539 - 2012-05-24 16:16:57 UTC
CCP Optimal wrote:


I just found and fixed that problem about a minute ago, so it will be coming your way with the next client update. Sorry about the inconvenience.


A minute ago ??

It's RIGHT THERE on the Sisi Forums for WEEKS. Jebus.................

I am NOT YOUNG ENOUGH to know EVERYTHING.  ~~ Oscar Wilde, writer, d. November 30, 1900

Ericdon
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#540 - 2012-05-24 16:17:19 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
Ericdon wrote:
MAKE IT A CHOICE GOD DAMN IT! Let people use old system, or new! and you will see trough use statistics witch one is better. DAMN!


^^ this ^^ I'm afraid...

Gathering behavioural data works for every other industry...

Exactly, this works better than "stfu and get used to it or gtfo" tactics