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*New* Eve Hit List [website]
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Pres Crendraven
#21 - 2012-05-21 09:01:42 UTC
This smells of justice.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.
freebree
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2012-05-21 09:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: freebree
John Crichton Jr wrote:
freebree wrote:
CAAN0N wrote:
http://evehitlist.com/

I see no Freebree losses here?


Still smells like a scam you ask me.

http://i.imgur.com/KsP7x.jpg
screenshot taken 08:31 Eve time



Of course it does, despite my replies and timestamps explaining everything, it sounds like you want it to be a scam.

No. 1, You can call it a scam all you want but I think its odd that the person posting your bounty mails me exactly 6 minutes before you (the target) posts on this thread about it. To me thats an amazing coincidence.

No. 2, I have a reddit post, this thread and crazy evemails/convos coming through plus trying to fix the issue that chadwill had pointed out in the thread at the same time.

The fact that its fixed already and was a simple small error, and that Im responding this fast should blow your wig back.

By nature, im not a rude person but i would rather tell you to just not use the service if you're going to be like this rather then get upset and insult you.


Damn, you type way to fast.

For your 1,
Friend of me did that for trolls.





John Crichton Jr wrote:


Simply put.

There was a minor issue where past kills would update as paid out. It has already been fixed. The site will search randomly and try to find new information about your target, so if it pulls up old kills, it purely for base intel to feed people who want to hunt your target. This is an intended function.

Also, freebree.... you lost your rifter 2012-05-12 17:14:00 and you lost your cane 2012-04-05 17:17:00. I would hardly call that months ago. My system doesn't pull old garbage, I have a limit as to how far back it will pull any record about you.



Yeah, well. thats 1month, and a 16 days on that hurricane.

Reason why I thought this was a scam, was because the bounty was placed and payed out before I was even able to log back into game.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#23 - 2012-05-21 09:25:09 UTC
freebree wrote:
John Crichton Jr wrote:
freebree wrote:
CAAN0N wrote:
http://evehitlist.com/

I see no Freebree losses here?


Still smells like a scam you ask me.

http://i.imgur.com/KsP7x.jpg
screenshot taken 08:31 Eve time



Of course it does, despite my replies and timestamps explaining everything, it sounds like you want it to be a scam.

No. 1, You can call it a scam all you want but I think its odd that the person posting your bounty mails me exactly 6 minutes before you (the target) posts on this thread about it. To me thats an amazing coincidence.

No. 2, I have a reddit post, this thread and crazy evemails/convos coming through plus trying to fix the issue that chadwill had pointed out in the thread at the same time.

The fact that its fixed already and was a simple small error, and that Im responding this fast should blow your wig back.

By nature, im not a rude person but i would rather tell you to just not use the service if you're going to be like this rather then get upset and insult you.



Damn, you type way to fast.



John Crichton Jr wrote:


Simply put.

There was a minor issue where past kills would update as paid out. It has already been fixed. The site will search randomly and try to find new information about your target, so if it pulls up old kills, it purely for base intel to feed people who want to hunt your target. This is an intended function.

Also, freebree.... you lost your rifter 2012-05-12 17:14:00 and you lost your cane 2012-04-05 17:17:00. I would hardly call that months ago. My system doesn't pull old garbage, I have a limit as to how far back it will pull any record about you.



Yeah, well. thats 1month, and a 16 days on that hurricane.

Reason why I thought this was a scam, was because the bounty was placed and payed out before I was even able to log back into game.


Its 4 am here and im trying to make sure everything is running right and answer questions before I goto bed. But yes pulling records from as much as 2 months is considered recent if they haven't had any activity since then, but it shouldn't have added that as a payout. It was a mistake in the way it processed some killmails. Thankfully it has been dealt with.

Over the next week, the website will become a little more complex (given that my work schedule permits me to work on this) and possibly allow users to register and have more control over certain things. Possibly even create entire campaigns and measure how effective they are.
freebree
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-05-21 09:34:33 UTC  |  Edited by: freebree
oh yea, might want to fix this one as well.

Biced with a Bounty Pool at 11,771,961 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK

Looks very awkward when you pay 116,456,078 ISK out of your own wallet.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#25 - 2012-05-21 09:43:38 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
freebree wrote:
oh yea, might want to fix this one as well.

Biced with a Bounty Pool at 11,771,961 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK

Looks very awkward when you pay 116,456,078 ISK out of your own wallet.



??? What this means is the bounty pool is 11,771,961 mil and paid was a number that was subtracted from the bounty pool.

If it said

Quote:
Biced with a Bounty Pool at 140,000,000 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK


That wouldn't make much since would it?

I am flattered that you want to help but judging by the approach you came with about an hour or so ago, im not sure that you're the person I want to take advice from. You really do want there to be some trick to this.
freebree
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-05-21 09:49:14 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:
freebree wrote:
oh yea, might want to fix this one as well.

Biced with a Bounty Pool at 11,771,961 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK

Looks very awkward when you pay 116,456,078 ISK out of your own wallet.



??? What this means is the bounty pool is 11,771,961 mil and paid was a number that was subtracted from the bounty pool.

If it said

Quote:
Biced with a Bounty Pool at 140,000,000 ISK
and the Paid Out is 128,228,039 ISK


That wouldn't make much since would it?

I am flattered that you want to help but judging by the approach you came with about an hour or so ago, im not sure that you're the person I want to take advice from. You really do want there to be some trick to this.



make sense,
Never mind about that one then.
I need more coffee
Ginseng Jita
PAN-EVE TRADING COMPANY
#27 - 2012-05-21 09:52:25 UTC
What if some poor bloke with a bounty on his head ends up in a fleet battle and gets popped during the battle - does the pilot that popped him get the reward?
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#28 - 2012-05-21 10:05:04 UTC
Ginseng Jita wrote:
What if some poor bloke with a bounty on his head ends up in a fleet battle and gets popped during the battle - does the pilot that popped him get the reward?



If the kill is api verified then yes, whomever is the final blow will receive the lesser of either 65% of the ship kill (lost modules factored in) or the total bounty pool.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#29 - 2012-05-21 13:15:35 UTC
John Crichton Jr wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Obvious question is obvious: why should we trust EHL?

Some tough bits to swallow:

Tough bit 1: "you pay first, you are served later -or don't"
Tough bit 2: "how do i know i've been served?"
Tough bit 3: "Me wants to harrass X but i am a cowardly weasel, so I anonimously put a bounty on him for tears"



Ok so to answer in order.

1: you pay first and serve later.... For incredibly obvious reasons this only makes sense. The only advise I have is to start small,
Even 1million isk enough to have a bounty posted for someone on the site. There is no minimums or premiums for posting a bounty. The only advantage is that the bounties are listed in descending order by bounty amount.

2: How do you know you've been served. Well given the recent outcry people had about certain PVP Training sites requiring email addresses to sign up, I chose not to ask. Also it is against CCP's policy to send automated evemails to users in game, although this is not impossible to do, its difficult and can generate many issues, and again its against CCP's policy.

Maybe the answer to this question is that I should implement a daily kills page, linking all characters with bounties and their respective lossmails.

OR

Allow people to register to the site and see all bounty transactions they've made, along with the option to use their email address to opt-in and be notified when a target of theirs has been killed.

Id like to hear what you think of either solutions I've just laid out, or your own solution to this.


Huh. i think that the one who offers the service is who's got an issue about customer trust, not the customers. You said in a later post that anyone randomly killing a target will get the bounty, and that's silly. If I want someone blown, i wan him blown specifically for messing with me, not because he went to war and got accidentally killed.

And all in all, as i've never been to PvP, how can i check who's been killed, by who, and when? There's not even a single centralyzed repository of verified killmails.

So it looks like "hand money and hope something happens and you get to notice it happened, and also hope it was not an accident". He could go to war and you pay a bounty for nothing, or he could jump on the wrong guy and you would pay a bounty for nothing...

And of course, it all could be an elaborate scam.

Quote:
3: So these are one of those "no win, trap" questions that have no correct answer. Firstly, there are people that pay entire alliances to harass other alliances/corporations, So regardless of what you or others may think of people who pay to have their battle fought for them, they still do it. There are many reasons for people to pay to have their fights fought for them, maybe they don't play as much and don't have the time to wait 14 hours outside a station cloaked in a panther waiting for you to undock in a tengu. Maybe there is no simple way to impose revenge on someone they dislike, but if they could place a bounty high enough, they might get someone close to that person that is willing to take them out.


I hope this answers your questions, I would also like to hear back about the solutions for question number 2.



You get my point. You are becoming a mediator in anonymous harrassment, and that may go against EVE's ToS unless you can ensure that your website won't allow to put bounties on innocents. Just figure someone patrols a noob system, adding names older than 21 days to a list, and then drops 10 million ISK bounties on all of them. Then CCP notices sbdy is blowing noobs and they all have in common that they've been targetted at your site by anonymous griefers... then you will be in trouble, not the pricks using your website for inducting others to breach the ToS. Blink
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-05-21 13:30:27 UTC
Why not have a place on the site for someone to upload a killmail to claim a bounty payout? You could then verify it through whatever other means you are using, but would know what you are looking for instead of waiting for a random hit. It also takes care of only paying out to someone trying to kill the person, not a random act of war.
Pres Crendraven
#31 - 2012-05-21 14:49:22 UTC
I like bein able to pop them during war, Putting a bounty is like hiring mercs for the war instead of just personal vendettas.

I think the person paying the bounty should put a small eve bounty on them also so they show up in overview as marks. Lots of people like to have bounties for prestige. Keep the eve bounty under what it would cost for a person of that age to buy a clone replacement which brings up another question.

Will this service pay bounty on ship kills or pod kills?

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#32 - 2012-05-21 16:31:26 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


Huh. i think that the one who offers the service is who's got an issue about customer trust, not the customers. You said in a later post that anyone randomly killing a target will get the bounty, and that's silly. If I want someone blown, i wan him blown specifically for messing with me, not because he went to war and got accidentally killed.

And all in all, as i've never been to PvP, how can i check who's been killed, by who, and when? There's not even a single centralyzed repository of verified killmails.

So it looks like "hand money and hope something happens and you get to notice it happened, and also hope it was not an accident". He could go to war and you pay a bounty for nothing, or he could jump on the wrong guy and you would pay a bounty for nothing...

And of course, it all could be an elaborate scam.

You get my point. You are becoming a mediator in anonymous harrassment, and that may go against EVE's ToS unless you can ensure that your website won't allow to put bounties on innocents. Just figure someone patrols a noob system, adding names older than 21 days to a list, and then drops 10 million ISK bounties on all of them. Then CCP notices sbdy is blowing noobs and they all have in common that they've been targetted at your site by anonymous griefers... then you will be in trouble, not the pricks using your website for inducting others to breach the ToS.


Sit down, there is a lot to explain.

Firstly, what you are asking for in regards to having your target blown up only by people with the sole intention of collecting the bounty you've placed is impossible to predict, even by CCP's current bounty system. Do you honestly think that all bounty's collected through the current system are 100% purposely done? I believe its more like %95 of the bounties dispersed through the current system are accidental and most of the time not intentional for the purpose of collecting the bounty. The only people I know who successfully collect bounties by intentionally killing pods live in Rancer, and they stay in Rancer.

What you ask is not only impossible for a 3rd party service but also impossible as a 1st party service (CCP) to implement, there is no way to predict player intent before hand.

You're absolutely correct, it mimics the current bounty system in many ways, the only way it doesn't mimic the bounty system is the way that payouts are made so that people cant exploit the system and collect their own bounty at a massive profit. This is how I intended to create it.

Yes, it could be an elaborate scam, just like EOH poker, Somer Blink and other services that people trust in. There is really no way to rebut this statement other then having a reputable third party holder, which is why last night after mentions of trust arose, I eve mailed a few reputable services so this shouldn't be an issue soon.

There are already mediators in anonymous harassment, pick any high sec merc alliance. Please respond with sections of the EULA that my site would violate, I've already been through this and violate no part of it.

If you plan to raise issues and be taken seriously please respond with a realistic solution as well, there is nothing worse than someone raising impossible issues with no solutions. For example, your issue with how you put "Accidental" death payouts and not having some dedicated white knight with the sole intention of killing your target is like saying we cant have Court cases unless the court can come up with the correct verdict 100% of the time with no faults.
TheBreadMuncher
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
#33 - 2012-05-21 16:32:18 UTC
I thought we had something like this.

Oh, yeah, it's called "bounties".

"We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#34 - 2012-05-21 16:34:08 UTC
Savage Angel wrote:
Why not have a place on the site for someone to upload a killmail to claim a bounty payout? You could then verify it through whatever other means you are using, but would know what you are looking for instead of waiting for a random hit. It also takes care of only paying out to someone trying to kill the person, not a random act of war.



This was actually how I originally thought of making this site, I decided that making the payouts automated might bring more awareness to the site. But as a compromise I could implement an api section, so that mercs can give me direct access to their kill log to verify the legitimacy of the km and generate a payout that way.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#35 - 2012-05-21 16:36:01 UTC
Pres Crendraven wrote:
I like bein able to pop them during war, Putting a bounty is like hiring mercs for the war instead of just personal vendettas.

I think the person paying the bounty should put a small eve bounty on them also so they show up in overview as marks. Lots of people like to have bounties for prestige. Keep the eve bounty under what it would cost for a person of that age to buy a clone replacement which brings up another question.

Will this service pay bounty on ship kills or pod kills?



Both actually. To the site there is no difference between a pod an a ship, If the pod has expensive implants, plan to get a isk transfer worth 65% of the kill
Alex Luther
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-05-21 16:39:31 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
I thought we had something like this.

Oh, yeah, it's called "bounties".


Welcome to EVE,

You must be new here.

The OP pointed out how bounties are broken in two links as well as explained in the OP itself with detail and an example of how it is broken.

Reading is a skill you may have forgot to train.
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#37 - 2012-05-21 16:42:32 UTC
glad you have programming skills

but you're going to have to be a bit more credible and transparent in you intend to get anywhere

eve isn't Disney on Ice (which is an overblown shill show designed to separate parents from their dollars at the merch counter)

1 52' truck of audio & lighting
1 52' truck of production/wardrobe/props
1 52' truck of merchandise
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-05-21 17:03:17 UTC
this sounds very interesting. With 3rd party support for transactions i don't see why everyone would want to boo hoo this so fast. A lot of effort has gone into building a site for something the community has complained about for so long, this deserves some attention.

I personally have 115mil in bounties placed on me from people that honestly dont know any better and want to get retribution. I look forward to seeing how this goes. If you begin to get things running you should really advertise on C&P as it is a better venue for this.

I has all the eve inactivity
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#39 - 2012-05-21 17:16:14 UTC
Morganta wrote:
glad you have programming skills

but you're going to have to be a bit more credible and transparent in you intend to get anywhere

eve isn't Disney on Ice (which is an overblown shill show designed to separate parents from their dollars at the merch counter)

1 52' truck of audio & lighting
1 52' truck of production/wardrobe/props
1 52' truck of merchandise


Thanks for the heads up. I like working harder for unreal game currency then I do for real money (disneyonice,monsterjam,etc).
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#40 - 2012-05-21 17:19:14 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
this sounds very interesting. With 3rd party support for transactions i don't see why everyone would want to boo hoo this so fast. A lot of effort has gone into building a site for something the community has complained about for so long, this deserves some attention.

I personally have 115mil in bounties placed on me from people that honestly dont know any better and want to get retribution. I look forward to seeing how this goes. If you begin to get things running you should really advertise on C&P as it is a better venue for this.



Thank you for seeing what I was trying to do. I have already reached out to Chribba and a few other reputable third party servicers this morning at 4am to address this issue. Hopefully we will have something in place within the next few days.