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*New* Eve Hit List [website]

Author
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#1 - 2012-05-21 06:15:39 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
EVEHITLIST.COM



***************IMPORTANT UPDATE***************


This site has stopped accepting payments for bounties due to a mix of feedback and the inability to secure a trusted 3rd party service to handle transactions (see last update at bottom of OP). Currently I am in the middle of redesigning the website and the way payments are handled to address this issue. All transactions for bounties are refunded as of now.

Join the EHL mailing list to get information on web application releases and first access to new web applications before they go public. To join the mailing list, click "Add Mailing List" button at the bottom left side of your inbox, and type in "EHL" then click "Join".



Eve Hit List has finally been launched after being discussed between the Reddit/Eve and EveFormus community as to how it will work.

Below is a little information about myself, the website, and how it works.

Why place a bounty?

By placing a bounty on someone you increase the likelihood of someone close to this character turning him in for the reward.
Given the mechanics of this reward system, the bigger the ship they kill him in, the more ISK they receive from the bounty pool.

Does EHL provide any other information besides how much the bounty is worth?

Yes. Eve Hit List may look like another static, basic webpage showing little information about the target but I assure you there Is a lot going on within EHL's inner-workings. EHL not only provides up to date bounty and payout information, It also provides daily monitoring of every wanted characters kills/losses/posts and a few other things. After the Inferno patch there will be a few more tracking features as well. Not only does this site show mercs how much a target is worth, but also gives up to date intel as to where they are or may be..

How does someone post a bounty?

To place a bounty on a player you can transfer isk in the amount of the bounty you desire and in the reason field place the character name you want to place a bounty on. If for any reason you place a bounty on the wrong character or realize you mistyped the name and hit enter, you should email me directly in game as soon as possible with the correct name you need the bounty placed on.

All bounty placements are anonymous. We do not post or display information regarding people whom place bounties.

A little about myself

Up until recent I've worked on sites such as monsterjam.com, disneyonice.com and ringling.com. I am a returning Eve Online member after a 1 year absence to focus on my last year of college. Now that I have graduated and have more free time, I have been able to create this a cool solution as an alternative to the ingame bounty system for some time now. Also, while my design skills are a bit lacking, please note that I am a back end web developer and not a designer by any means, but do expect the UI of the site to look better as the month continues.

Listed below is one example of why the in game bounty system is severely flawed.


Character A places 100million isk bounty on character B
Character B jump clones into a new clone with no implants
Character B then gets his alt character (or a friend) to kill the pod of character B
Character B's killer (aka his alt or friend) receive 100Million isk as a bounty reward
Character B is now 100Million ISK richer on your behalf.

This is not how the bounty system was intended to be used. There have been many requests for CCP to revamp this including my own petition, so I decided to create this service for all players. My main goal is to show CCP how successful the Eve Hit List solution is at preventing players from exploiting the system, which would hopefully lead to CCP implementing this method directly into the game.

Here is and example how this service fixes the above exploit.


Pilot A has a 200m bounty (via EHL).
Pilot B blows up Pilot A's (unfit)Tier 3 battlecruiser, valued at 100m
Pilot B gets paid (65% of total ship loss, including cost of destroyed mods) 65 million from the bounty pool and 135m in bounty remains on Pilot A.

This creates a disadvantage for players to attempt to kill themselves for their own bounty, as there is a greater loss than there is reward. Additionally there is the pointless lossmail that comes with it.

How does EHL know if someone actually killed my target?


There is a special method, which the site performs every few hours to check the players losses and only imports API verified kills. Regardless if a kill is legitimate or not, it must be API verified.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Update


I only have one other person I've contacted as a trusted third party holding service.

Unfortunately Chribba is not able to take EHL on for a third party service which is something I suspected and fully understand.

Chribba EveMail
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#2 - 2012-05-21 06:23:10 UTC
I trust John Crichton Jr. He's a stand up fellow.


Unlike me, I'm a sit down guy.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Pres Crendraven
#3 - 2012-05-21 06:24:15 UTC
how do you insure that the HIT isn't targeted by a friend or an alt?

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#4 - 2012-05-21 06:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
Pres Crendraven wrote:
how do you insure that the HIT isn't targeted by a friend or an alt?


Thanks for pointing out a few details I forgot to include.
As summarized on the two other links I have included near the top of the OP This is how payout are determined.

Pilot A has a 200m bounty (via EHL).

Pilot B blows up Pilot A's (unfit)Tier 3 battlecruiser, valued at 100m

Pilot B gets paid (65% of total ship loss, including cost of destroyed mods) 65 million from the bounty pool and 135m in bounty remains on Pilot A.

If a wanted toon is targeted by a friend or an alt then that is great news because he will feel 10x's worse once he finds out he lost money and has a random loss mail for no reason. Either way, he doesn't make out too well.

Great question, ill make this part of the OP.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#5 - 2012-05-21 06:50:06 UTC
Obvious question is obvious: why should we trust EHL?

Some tough bits to swallow:

Tough bit 1: "you pay first, you are served later -or don't"
Tough bit 2: "how do i know i've been served?"
Tough bit 3: "Me wants to harrass X but i am a cowardly weasel, so I anonimously put a bounty on him for tears"
Malak Dawnfire
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2012-05-21 06:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Malak Dawnfire
Nice website, I was always a little disappointed with how the bounty system works in-game, hopefully we'll see some progress soon enough with it, people posting bounties and seeing them killmails pile up.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#7 - 2012-05-21 07:12:40 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Obvious question is obvious: why should we trust EHL?

Some tough bits to swallow:

Tough bit 1: "you pay first, you are served later -or don't"
Tough bit 2: "how do i know i've been served?"
Tough bit 3: "Me wants to harrass X but i am a cowardly weasel, so I anonimously put a bounty on him for tears"



Ok so to answer in order.

1: you pay first and serve later.... For incredibly obvious reasons this only makes sense. The only advise I have is to start small,
Even 1million isk enough to have a bounty posted for someone on the site. There is no minimums or premiums for posting a bounty. The only advantage is that the bounties are listed in descending order by bounty amount.

2: How do you know you've been served. Well given the recent outcry people had about certain PVP Training sites requiring email addresses to sign up, I chose not to ask. Also it is against CCP's policy to send automated evemails to users in game, although this is not impossible to do, its difficult and can generate many issues, and again its against CCP's policy.

Maybe the answer to this question is that I should implement a daily kills page, linking all characters with bounties and their respective lossmails.

OR

Allow people to register to the site and see all bounty transactions they've made, along with the option to use their email address to opt-in and be notified when a target of theirs has been killed.

Id like to hear what you think of either solutions I've just laid out, or your own solution to this.

3: So these are one of those "no win, trap" questions that have no correct answer. Firstly, there are people that pay entire alliances to harass other alliances/corporations, So regardless of what you or others may think of people who pay to have their battle fought for them, they still do it. There are many reasons for people to pay to have their fights fought for them, maybe they don't play as much and don't have the time to wait 14 hours outside a station cloaked in a panther waiting for you to undock in a tengu. Maybe there is no simple way to impose revenge on someone they dislike, but if they could place a bounty high enough, they might get someone close to that person that is willing to take them out.


I hope this answers your questions, I would also like to hear back about the solutions for question number 2.

Pres Crendraven
#8 - 2012-05-21 07:19:15 UTC
post 4 correct please.

you say pilot a gets paid 65%, he's the one with the bounty. We're trying to avoid that.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

Pres Crendraven
#9 - 2012-05-21 07:24:51 UTC
Do you have a third party holding collateral for the amounts you are liable for?

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#10 - 2012-05-21 07:32:35 UTC
Pres Crendraven wrote:
post 4 correct please.

you say pilot a gets paid 65%, he's the one with the bounty. We're trying to avoid that.


Thank you for that. Correction made.

To your next post, I do not have a third party that can hold this. If people would be willing to accept a fee for this service, I can afford to have a reputable holding service. That is an option I am more then willing to explore provided that people request that they want it and have no issue with a fee being taken from their transaction amount.

Also keep in mind that having a third party will possibly slow down the payout process, as I will not have direct access to funds. Also certain future features may not be possible.

If you know of any trusted third party services that wouldn't mind send out transactions all day and not charge us an absorbent amount then please post his in game name an I will contact them.
Pres Crendraven
#11 - 2012-05-21 08:02:15 UTC
You could research this if other people inquired about it over in market discussions. Maybe Chribba? I think you should take a cut of the bounties. enough that you don't feel used and entitled to disappear with it. Its nice you have no profit motive but this could become a lot of work so keep an open mind.

As your business goes up you will see that a percentage of the total will need to be accessible quickly. Thats called liquidity, another percentage will be stagnant. say you had 2 billion in bounties total on average any particular day of the month and your average payout per day was 500 million. To instill more trust and encourage people to trust you an item worth the other 1 and a half billion would be purchased and held. You would keep enough cash on hand to handle your daily transactions plus some extra for busy days. If you ran off, maybe an executor would sell and disburse the cash the best they could. They would need a copy of the people posting bounties to do it right I guess.

Banks do it this way, they don't keep all the money in the office, just enough to meet their needs. You may not need this if you stay small but I could see this getting huge if it works. Good luck.

Meta34me

Corp and Alliance details hidden to protect the innocent.

John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#12 - 2012-05-21 08:18:46 UTC
Pres Crendraven wrote:
You could research this if other people inquired about it over in market discussions. Maybe Chribba? I think you should take a cut of the bounties. enough that you don't feel used and entitled to disappear with it. Its nice you have no profit motive but this could become a lot of work so keep an open mind.

As your business goes up you will see that a percentage of the total will need to be accessible quickly. Thats called liquidity, another percentage will be stagnant. say you had 2 billion in bounties total on average any particular day of the month and your average payout per day was 500 million. To instill more trust and encourage people to trust you an item worth the other 1 and a half billion would be purchased and held. You would keep enough cash on hand to handle your daily transactions plus some extra for busy days. If you ran off, maybe an executor would sell and disburse the cash the best they could. They would need a copy of the people posting bounties to do it right I guess.

Banks do it this way, they don't keep all the money in the office, just enough to meet their needs. You may not need this if you stay small but I could see this getting huge if it works. Good luck.



Thanks, some of that information was known and expected but some of it was also helpful. I had no profit motive mainly because I don't have all of the time in the world every day to get things done and I don't want anyone to feel cheated. I will look into using chribba to hold enough to cover all bounties.

I will update the site of news regarding this process.
chadwill
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-05-21 08:30:20 UTC
I tought this must be a well made Scam..

Maybe i was right?


I added a pilot to the hitlist as a test..

after about an hour, said pilot showed up with 2 losess, and almost all bounty payed out..

Even tho the said pilot did not lose any ships, and was not logged on during the time
freebree
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-05-21 08:31:24 UTC
This is a scam.

Says I lost a cane + rifter. Haven't lost a hurricane in months, and only rifters I've blown up has been against RvB.
Check http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=370945
Its API verified.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#15 - 2012-05-21 08:45:57 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
freebree wrote:
This is a scam.

Says I lost a cane + rifter. Haven't lost a hurricane in months, and only rifters I've blown up has been against RvB.
Check http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=370945
Its API verified.


As I already replied to the person who placed the bounty on you (most likely was you) I promptly replied (after wrighting a rather lengthy evemail to chribba about holding the isk as a third party for this service) with the following message.


Quote:

Re: Eve Hit List
From: John Crichton Jr
Sent: 2012.05.21 08:32
To: ***

No, i have been monitoring everything since i made this public. The site does timely searches on the internet for any recent intel information about the target. If it pulls a killmail, it will list the ship they lost and where they were last seen if the mail is recent. One thing it was not supposed to to was factor in killmails posted before you placed the bounty. ISK payout are at the end of every day at 05:00 Eve Time so no payout have been made, I have to make a simple fix to the site and it should be fine.
Currently the bounty amount is still correct on freebree, only the payout amount needs to be reset back to 0 and a few other fixes to make sure this doesn't happen again.

Thanks for sending an message,
If you have any other concerns please let me know.



Simply put.

There was a minor issue where past kills would update as paid out. It has already been fixed. The site will search randomly and try to find new information about your target, so if it pulls up old kills, it purely for base intel to feed people who want to hunt your target. This is an intended function.

Also, freebree.... you lost your rifter 2012-05-12 17:14:00 and you lost your cane 2012-04-05 17:17:00. I would hardly call that months ago. My system doesn't pull old garbage, I have a limit as to how far back it will pull any record about you.
CAAN0N
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#16 - 2012-05-21 08:46:44 UTC
http://evehitlist.com/

I see no Freebree losses here?
freebree
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-05-21 08:50:32 UTC  |  Edited by: freebree
CAAN0N wrote:
http://evehitlist.com/

I see no Freebree losses here?


http://i.imgur.com/KsP7x.jpg
screenshot taken 08:31 Eve time
Gorki Andropov
I Dn't Knw Wht You Wnt Bt I Cn't Gve It Anymre
#18 - 2012-05-21 08:54:19 UTC
freebree wrote:
This is a scam.

Says I lost a cane + rifter. Haven't lost a hurricane in months, and only rifters I've blown up has been against RvB.
Check http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=370945
Its API verified.



That sounds remarkably like something someone who is a '10/10' THREAT LEVEL would say...I guess all of us good guys just have to wait until the 'HERO'S' jump into their ships and assplode you!
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#19 - 2012-05-21 08:57:36 UTC  |  Edited by: John Crichton Jr
freebree wrote:
CAAN0N wrote:
http://evehitlist.com/

I see no Freebree losses here?


Still smells like a scam you ask me.

http://i.imgur.com/KsP7x.jpg
screenshot taken 08:31 Eve time



Of course it does, despite my replies and timestamps explaining everything, it sounds like you want it to be a scam.

No. 1, You can call it a scam all you want but I think its odd that the person posting your bounty mails me exactly 6 minutes before you (the target) posts on this thread about it. To me thats an amazing coincidence.

No. 2, I have a reddit post, this thread and crazy evemails/convos coming through plus trying to fix the issue that chadwill had pointed out in the thread at the same time.

The fact that its fixed already and was a simple small error, and that Im responding this fast should blow your wig back.

By nature, im not a rude person but i would rather tell you to just not use the service if you're going to be like this rather then get upset and insult you.
John Crichton Jr
Eve Hit List
#20 - 2012-05-21 08:59:43 UTC
Gorki Andropov wrote:
freebree wrote:
This is a scam.

Says I lost a cane + rifter. Haven't lost a hurricane in months, and only rifters I've blown up has been against RvB.
Check http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=370945
Its API verified.



That sounds remarkably like something someone who is a '10/10' THREAT LEVEL would say...I guess all of us good guys just have to wait until the 'HERO'S' jump into their ships and assplode you!



Every toon is assessed as a 10/10 threat level until there are more than 50 wanted toons, after that there is an algorithm to assess threat based on characters within the sites db.
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